Βι¶ΉΤΌΕΔ

Wars and ConflictsΒ  permalink

Battle of the Bulge 1944

• Message 1.Β 

  Posted by Little Enos Rides Again (U1777880) on Monday, 20th February 2006

  Bit of a "What If" but it should be reasonably plausible -
  
  What would of happened if Von Manteuffel had succeeded in capturing Bastogne in December 1944 with the German Ardennes offensive before Patton pushed through with US reinforcements and relieved the seige thus effectively ending any chance of German success.
  
  Initially Von Manteuffel by-passed Bastogne in true Blitzkrieg fashion and pressed on towards the Meuse, as Bastogne was well fortified by the American defenders, this appeared to be a very costly mistake as he desperately needed the fuel supplies held in the US depots to maintain his momentum.
  
  So assuming Bastogne was captured could Von Manteuffel then have possibly been successful in re-capturing Antwerp(realistically this was Hitler's plan and best chance of success)?
  
  How much of a setback would this of been to the allies if the German advance had resulted in them re-capturing Antwerp as the allied supply lines on the Western Front would of been cut?
  
  Obviously I realise another factor in the German defeat besides fuel shortages was the allied airpower / superiority after the weather had cleared.
  
  Over the weekend I was playing a bit of Blitzkrieg 2 and sccessfully won several missions as the Germans (Ardennes Offensive) on the pc, which got me thinking of this post. For instance the German range of tanks, while not having the numerical advantages of the Americans at least on the game out classes the American tanks, e.g. The Tiger II (Panzer Mark VI) is an awesome piece of kit and eats US Shermans for breakfast, not to mention the original Tiger Tank (Panzer Mark V), which was also a fine tank and again outclasses a Sherman.
  
  I recall reading somewhere that it could take up to 5 Shermans to knock out 1 Tiger?
  
  Also in the game I had fighter cover available from Focke Wulf 190's to help protect my tanks from US air attacks, albeit I appreciate that the Lufwaffe was desperely short of fuel at this stage of the war however did the German advance in real life have any air cover when weather conditions allowed?
  
  So my argument would be if Von Manteuffel had access to Tiger I and II's within his army as well as some air cover then it appears to be realistic that he could of captured Bastogne in spite of heavy US resistance and got the fuel he needed before Patton's intervention?
  
  

  Link to this forum: Battle of the Bulge 1944

  Report message1

• Message 2

  , in reply to message 1.

  Posted by Grumpyfred (U2228930) on Monday, 20th February 2006

  The British held Antwerp, and some units of the R. A. C. had been pulled back to re aquipt with the new Comet tank, and the forerunner of the Centurian, and in its own right,far better than the Sherman, but where rushed forward to fill in the holes. Allied air power ruled the skies. and who said Patton relieved Bastogne. If you ask any of the 101, they will tell you, that Patton and the press believed everything that Patton said. The 101 given the air drops could have held out forever.

  Link to this forum: Battle of the Bulge 1944

  Report message2

• Message 3

  , in reply to message 1.

  Posted by Mr Pedant (U2464726) on Monday, 20th February 2006

  I've always thought of the Bulge as a massive waste of German resources. In the unlikely event that Antwerp was taken it would not have allowed the Germans to retake the initiative.
  
  Also Antwerp's importance to the allies would have declined as other ports were brought back into use.
  
  They would have done better to fall back onto the Rhine IMO.

  Link to this forum: Battle of the Bulge 1944

  Report message3

• Message 4

  , in reply to message 3.

  Posted by Little Enos Rides Again (U1777880) on Monday, 20th February 2006

  The Bulge was a last throw of the dice for Hitler and I would be inclined to agree a waste of his last tank reserves. They would arguably have been far better deployed on the Rhine or even used to halt / delay the Russians in the East.
  
  However by this stage I don't think Hitler was the most rational of people in terms of tactics
  
  According to the book The World at War (based on the tv series), Patton did relieve Bastogne as The Germans had effectively encircled it. Indeed apparently Von Manteuffel had offered surrender terms to The US General in charge, who I think basically replied your nuts!!
  
  But if the Germans had fully stormed Bastogne before the weather cleared (as opposed to initially by-passing) giving the allies their air power advantage with a better class of tanks as the Germans arguably had e.g. Tiger II's albeit limited in number, could Von Manteuffel have succeeded in taking Bastogne?
  
  Also according to the above-mentioned book at the start of the Bulge, The Americans only had 6 divisions covering a 70 mile radius in the Ardennes area and because of poor weather for reconnaissance they had no or little intelligence of the German tank build up.

  Link to this forum: Battle of the Bulge 1944

  Report message4

Back to top