Wars and ConflictsΒ permalink
Anglo-dutch wars?
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Message 1.Β
Posted by Mark (U2073932) on Friday, 17th February 2006
I'm a bit confused,in the second half of the 17th century, the English and dutch had war after war with france allied to England.
Then the english ally themselves to the dutch in the 1670's (I think) and then of course after 1689 England and later Britain (1707) are fighting the french.
Can someone please iron out my ignorance and tell me what exactly it was all about.
Thankyou! -
Message 2
Posted by CakeMix (U3231764) on Friday, 17th February 2006
I'm afraid i am as wise as your are.
It was a series of conflicts between the English and Dutch during the mid to late 17th CE. The wars had their roots in the Anglo-Dutch commercial rivalry, although the last of the three wars was a wider conflict in which French interests played a primary role.
In fact, leaning on a Bible prophecy in the book of Daniel, it refers to Britain's acquiring of its global domain through defeating other nations thus gaining control of the worlds seas;
It tells it as 'Three Kings he will humiliate,' ie France, Holland and Spain.
On Modern Europe (1953), Chapter 8 - British Expansion by J. H. Hayes, it says:
It calls attention to two centuries of fighting by England with the Spanish, Dutch and French in order to come forth in 1763 (after the American Revolution) as the "foremost commercial and colonial power in the world." -
Message 3
Posted by PaulRyckier (U1753522) on Friday, 17th February 2006
Re: Message 1.
Redcoat,
already more than a year I want to start a thread about: Why Britain became the leading nation and not the Dutch Republic.
I took up the gauntlet with lol beeble and his Dutch tulip crash, but let me become always deviated from the real history... And still a huge backlog from my German history on these boards...
Dutch and English looked always what was the best for their respective nations. To compare: Even religion was not holy, while François I allied with the heathen Turks against the Holy Roman Emperor Charles V.
Redcoat, I promise after my German history I will tackle "England versus the Dutch Republic".
Kind regards. -
Message 4
Posted by PaulRyckier (U1753522) on Friday, 17th February 2006
Re: Message 2.
Cake,
if the Bible says it, it has to be right in any case.
Cheers and welcome to the boards. -
Message 5
Posted by CakeMix (U3231764) on Saturday, 18th February 2006
Thx Paul.
Correction: It calls attention to two centuries of fighting by England with the Spanish, Dutch and French in order to come forth in 1763 (after the American Revolution) as the "foremost commercial and colonial power in the world." (after the american Revolution)Β
Was supposed to say 1783. But it is wrong anyway, because it was still 1763 before the Revolution. 1763 was the end of the Seven Years War
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Message 6
Posted by CakeMix (U3231764) on Saturday, 18th February 2006
Here's a battle of the day.
Anniversary of part of the First English-Dutch war (18 February 1653 - 20 February 1653)
The English fleet of 70 warships under the command of Admirals Blake, Deane and Monk were on station to intercept a Dutch convoy. When it was sighted off Portland it was said to contain 300 merchant ships escorted by 73 warships. A fierce battle ensued, initially the early arriving English ships coming off badly but as more came up the fight became more even. As night fell the seven or eight English ships which had come off worst were sunk and their crews taken onto the other ships. The next day, 19th Feb., it was 1400hrs before the English again got up with the Dutch and the running battle continued off the Isle of Wight. As night was falling the wind which had been West/West South-West swung to North West and the Dutch made the port of Calais. The English anchored to the West of the port. Overnight the Dutch escaped. The English lost 8 ships sunk and the Dutch lost 11 ships of war and 60 merchant ships.Β -
Message 7
Posted by Anglo-Norman (U1965016) on Saturday, 18th February 2006
IIRC, the First Dutch War was obstensibly sparked off by incursions by the Dutch fishing fleet.
It was unfortunate for the Dutch (who were at the time the unrivalled Maritime power in Europe) that due to the Civil Wars and the threat of Royalist privateers, Parliament had massively expanded the Navy, with state of the art warships, and crack commander General-at-Sea Robert Blake to boot. -
Message 8
Posted by Mark (U2073932) on Sunday, 19th February 2006
Thanks for all those replies, but happened then in the 1670's then to make Britain and the Dutch join against the French?
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Message 9
Posted by Anglo-Norman (U1965016) on Sunday, 19th February 2006
Just a theory (my knowledge gets decidedly hazy for the hundred years or so after 1660) but something to do with Protestant powers uniting against a Catholic one?
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Message 10
Posted by Mark (U2073932) on Sunday, 19th February 2006
I just know that Monmouth was fighting against the french especially at st.denis. But was it for the British or dutch?
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Message 11
Posted by Tim of Acleah (U1736633) on Sunday, 19th February 2006
The first Dutch war was fought during the time of the Commonwealth 1651 to 54. I think. It was a resounding victory to the English. This was despite the Dutch having 80% of the world’s ocean going shipping. The reason why the English won was firstly due to sitting across the Dutch trade routes. And secondly because the RN had far more guns on their ships. For example the RN built the 100 gun 3 Decker Sovereign of the seas (later the Naseby) at a time when the Swedes could not even successfully design a 2 Decker, the Vasa (wonderful work of art to see in Stockholm but a complete disaster as a ship). The reason why only the RN had big gun ships was following the Armada. The RN had gone for then big gun ships (50 guns) but had in fact failed to sink many Spanish ships; it was the fire ships and the storm that did most of the real damage. Other navies decided that big gun ships did not work and went for fast ships with lots of marines for boarding. The RN decided that the big gun ships did not work because they did not carry enough guns. Even the largest Dutch ships rarely carried more guns than the smaller English ships. The result was that even though the Dutch often outmaneuvered the RN they got blown apart. Also in Blake the RN probably had its best fighting Admiral after Nelson and Drake. Cromwell did not really approve of fighting fellow Protestants and so the Dutch were given an easy peace.
Charles II did not like the Dutch and saw them as a trade rival, hence the 2nd Dutch War. But by this time the Dutch were also building big gun ships and the war was inconclusive. England ended up gaining New Amsterdam but lost territory elsewhere and the Dutch infamously sailed up the Thames and burnt RN ships.
Charles II was desperate for money and signed a secret treaty with Louis XIV, treaty of Dover, which included amongst other things that Charles would get a subsidy from Louis and would try to reintroduce Catholicism into England. The third war was, in my opinion, the Netherlands finest hour fighting both England and France. England had command at sea and did not do that well but the French advanced at land. The war was totally unpopular and Charles was forced to sign a peace. Later his niece Mary married William of Orange and they were in 1688 to be invited in instead of James II of England (VII of Scotland) and so GB ended up allied with the Netherlands.
Hope this is of interest and I have not got too much wrong as entirely from memory.
Regards Tim
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