Wars and ConflictsÌý permalink
Who...ME!!...I'm a God.
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Message 1.Ìý
Posted by Buckskinz (U3036516) on Tuesday, 31st January 2006
Hirohito was the Emperor of Japan during World War II. Before and during World War II the Japanese government was basically run by the military. While Emperor Hirohito was regarded as a sacred leader, his education was primarily on the military. As an adult his free time was spent either studying military battles or playing chess.
Why was he never tried as a war criminal? Did it suit McArthur to leave him in place in order to grease the skids in getting Japan on its feet? Had he been tried would there have been turmoil in post war Japan? As a living God to the Japanese could he have no responsibility at all for Japanese war crimes during ww2? Did he have no influence at all over the Japanese military machine, therefor he is innocent of any wrong doing? Your thoughts please. -
Message 2
Posted by LongWeekend (U3023428) on Tuesday, 31st January 2006
Grow up
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Message 3
Posted by Mick_mac (U2874010) on Tuesday, 31st January 2006
Buckskinz,
I know your posts are generally tongue-in-cheek and intended to be contoversial in order to get a discussion going but have you ever considered what might have happened if Japan had gone on to win the war despite Hiroshima and Nagasaki (a ridiculous hypothesis, I know!)? In that event do you think that Truman would have avoided being tried as a war criminal?
Mick
PS I hope I don't regret this post! -
Message 4
Posted by Buckskinz (U3036516) on Tuesday, 31st January 2006
Buckskinz,
I know your posts are generally tongue-in-cheek and intended to be contoversial in order to get a discussion going but have you ever considered what might have happened if Japan had gone on to win the war despite Hiroshima and Nagasaki (a ridiculous hypothesis, I know!)? In that event do you think that Truman would have avoided being tried as a war criminal?
Mick
PS I hope I don't regret this post! Ìý
Hi Mick,
That has the makings of a decent thread all on its own. Don't be shy, go for it. Don't be put off with posts like number 2 on this thread. It usually comes from cretins that are too ignorant to think up anything worthwhile on their own.
Cheers Mate.
Matt. -
Message 5
Posted by LongWeekend (U3023428) on Tuesday, 31st January 2006
By and large, cretins don't have keyboard skills.
Of course, I could be an exception. -
Message 6
Posted by Mick_mac (U2874010) on Tuesday, 31st January 2006
Matt,
Thanks for the encouragement. I took your advice.
Mick -
Message 7
Posted by Slimdaddy101 (U2553470) on Tuesday, 31st January 2006
It is easier to destroy and create. I like your question and I'm still pondering it. I'll mull it over some more before I answer it. I've always wanted to post a thread to ask who would win in a fight between Hitler and Hirihito but I've never had the audacity to post it.
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Message 8
Posted by Mani (U1821129) on Wednesday, 1st February 2006
Hi Matt,
Yes, Hirohito was the spiritual leader of the country, but that’s it, he didn’t dictate policy in the military, didn’t participate directly in, or order others to be part of any criminal activities. I can’t think of any charge that could have been pinned on him to be honest?
The Emperor had been nothing but a figure head since the Shogunate that the Japanese people (In transition) could still use to for some kind of unity behind in the upheaval of transition. -
Message 9
Posted by OldKingCole72 (U1815644) on Wednesday, 1st February 2006
I would suggest that having the emperor announce the country's surrender, publicly deny his divinity and then to be seen to be co-operating with the US sent a clear signal to the Japanese people. Hirohito was primarily a figurehead, and the continuation in his office as emperor ensured a degree of continuity in a country with strong traditional values; whilst the denial of his status as a god helped define the declaration that Japan must enter a new and democratic era.
Also, (and I'm going to be cynical here) by 1945 it was clear to the Allies that the war was won and past transgressions could be overlooked if there were political advantages to be gained. -
Message 10
Posted by wollemi (U2318584) on Wednesday, 1st February 2006
Was Hirohito really just a figurehead? I understood there was evidence at the Tokyo war crimes that he was a participant in the military planning, but it was unclear how much he dominated in the final decision making. His 'figurehead' image was cultivated after the surrender.
Sufficient questions about his role to put him on trial but, as mentioned on the 'Generals' thread, MacArthur intervened as he felt that would disrupt cooperation from the Japanese public in the postwar planning.
MacArthur may have been correct in this in the short term. The longer term consequences are that it probably contributed to Japan still being seen as an outsider in the Asian region, not truly repentant for its wartime atrocities
I also wonder how China, the country that suffered the most under Japan's militarism, and whose influence is gaining strength in the region will include Japan in the regional power broking that is developing. -
Message 11
Posted by Buckskinz (U3036516) on Wednesday, 1st February 2006
I also wonder how China, the country that suffered the most under Japan's militarism, and whose influence is gaining strength in the region will include Japan in the regional power broking that is developing.
Ìý
Now there is food for thought. Asians do not have the relativly short historic memory that we have.
Cheers, Matt. -
Message 12
Posted by Scarboro (U2806863) on Wednesday, 1st February 2006
Was Hirohito really just a figurehead? Ìý
I read a biography on Hirohito several years ago. As I understand him, his role was a symbolic figurehead, with rather less independence than his European counterparts enjoyed. He was practically a prisoner of his handlers, who were the ruling council, composed of generals, admirals and aristocrats. He lived a very sheltered life.
The ruling council came to be dominated by the army and pursued a war agenda. The aristocrats on the council were silenced or assassinated if they opposed the war party.
When defeat became inevitable the general staff appeared emotionally unwilling to accept defeat, and were preparing to go down to defeat in a massive national "banzai charge" rather than surrender.
The atomic bombings jolted Hirohito to take charge. His decision to announce a surrender was opposed by the army. They even sent a junior officer in to kill Hirohito, but the officer could not bring himself to do the deed.
The messenger that carried Hirohito's surrender message had to evade army agents who were out to stop him.
By ordering a surrender, Hirohito gave the army a way to surrender without violating their duty to the Bushido code.
Hirohito asked MacArthur to hold him personally responsible for Japan's atrocities, and to forgive his subordinates. This display of character impressed MacArthur to the point where he forcefully pushed Washington to not try Hirohito as a war criminal.
While the biography may have been flattering to Hirohito, it does seem that he did perform a critical function in saving his country at the end of WW2, and positioning it for recovery.
The question of how China will view Japan is very pertinent. China has been flexing its muscles, and expressing outrage when Japan tries to whitewash its past.
Regards
Brian -
Message 13
Posted by wollemi (U2318584) on Wednesday, 1st February 2006
Scarboro
I think if those issues had come out at a trial, that's a different matter
It's the fact that Hirohito was not put on trial despite his prominent role over the WW2 years - and that includes the 1930s with all the atrocities in China. In the Asian region China in the 1930s is regarded at the beginning of WW2. Also how the decision was made - essentially by MacArthur
Would this have been accepted in Europe? Had Hirohito been a German 'deity' would the conquered European countries have been so reassured that he should not have answered a few questions? And continued in a very public postwar role?
My guess is that the new China will ostracise Japan in the region, diplomatically, economically. My second guess is that it's not just China which will allow that to happen, WW2 Japan left memories across the region -
Message 14
Posted by Buckskinz (U3036516) on Saturday, 4th February 2006
Hi,
I would say that wollemi has this one nailed. Hirohito was up to his eyes in it. I blame McArthur for making life easy on himself, also his ego being what it was I figure he relished the fact that Hirohito was under his thumb.
Cheers, Matt.
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