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How in/accurate is the film version of Waterloo judged to be?

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Messages: 1 - 43 of 43
  • Message 1.Μύ

    Posted by Eliza6Beth (U2637732) on Monday, 23rd January 2006

    Hi - I've watched the Dino De Laurentis film version of Waterloo (Orson Welles BORN to play Louis XVIII!!!)(and I doubt he wore a fat suit...)

    How accurate or otherwise is it now deemed to be? I get the feeling that it was very much an 'international' film so that Napoleon's flaws were not highlighted???

    I enjoyed the film though, and loved the contrast between over-emotional Steiger and cool, patrician Plummer (sort of Captain Von Trapp on horseback!)

    Eliza.

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  • Message 2

    , in reply to message 1.

    Posted by TonyG (U1830405) on Monday, 23rd January 2006

    I haven't seen it for a while, but as I recall it is reasonably accurate if you accept that much of it is based on what is reported as having happened. I think it was Wellington who said that it would be easier to write the history of a dance than to write the history of a battle. Different people have different perspectives and on a battlefield a couple of miles wide, lots of things were happening at the same time, but when watching a film or reading a book about it, they must necessarily be shown / told sequentially.

    There is always some artistic licence in film making. The film is there to entertain not to inform. Otherwise it would be a documentary.

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  • Message 3

    , in reply to message 1.

    Posted by colonelblimp (U1705702) on Monday, 23rd January 2006

    Dare I admit I saw it at the cinema when it was originally released? I think it's fairly accurate, certainly more so than "Sharpe's Waterloo", as regards the course of the battle from the British viewpoint. However, it says little about the Prussians, and the only reference I can recall to the Dutch-Belgian troops is the comment from Wellington to Picton: "Bylandt's brigade has broke. Plug the gap, Sir, if you please.". So, accurate as far as it goes but rather parochial and jingoistic.

    If DaveMBA reads this thread, I'm sure he's better informed on this than I am!

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  • Message 4

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    Posted by LongWeekend (U3023428) on Monday, 23rd January 2006

    I saw it on general release, too - as a friend's birthday treat! Apparently, we all came out convinced that Napoleon had deserved to win. This heresy was beaten out of us over the next few years.

    The main criticism I am aware of is that the film gives undue emphasis to a few cinematically attractive incidents - the Charge of the Scots Greys, for instance. Also, Christopher Plummer gets to deliver most of Wellington's best bon mots, including several actually uttered in Spain, not at Waterloo.

    As for minimising the Prussians, enough of this revisionist tosh! (anyway, Michael Benteen's version was better).

    The film is generally accurate (The French came on in the same old style, and we saw them off in the same old style) and does get the crises of the battle right.

    The film was made with the aid of the Red Army - all those extras are Soviet conscripts. The Rusians even lanscaped the set to match the battlefield.

    p.s. A Canadian in command of the British Expeditionary Force? That would never do.

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  • Message 5

    , in reply to message 4.

    Posted by Eliza6Beth (U2637732) on Monday, 23rd January 2006

    I'm relieved to hear its generally considered more or less accurate, as it's the one I showed my offspring when I was doing Waterloo with them. I thought it was a good 'primer' for plotting everyone in, and it did seem to follow the old 1066 and all that dicktat that history is not what happened it is what you can remember, as it had all the 'fave' bits in like Ney promising to bring him back in a cage, etc.

    As for the Wellingtonia, which are the ones that he said in Spain. I only know the Salamanca one (or thought I did?) when he says 'by God sir, that will do' and throws his chicken leg away.

    By the way, I seem to remember that Wellington and Blucher only had French in common, and the former remarked to the latter afterwards 'Quel affaire'. Is this so?

    Also, did one of Wellington's aides really offer to take a pot shot at Boney, and Beaky saying that wasn't the way to conduct war? What a lot of lives they've have saved if the ADC had his way and a good shot.

    Good of the Ruskies to recreate the battle for us, especially as they weren't there. I do wonder what the conscripts thought of it all. Some must be descended from Russian troops of l812 I'd have thought.

    Thank you again for your comments, most helpful.

    Eliza.

    PS = what was wrong with the Sharpe version - I don't really remember it very well. (if at all) There was a lot of time at inns, I seem to recall, but probably because it was cheaper.

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  • Message 6

    , in reply to message 5.

    Posted by TonyG (U1830405) on Monday, 23rd January 2006

    Allegedly it was an artillery officer who wanted to take a shot at Napoleon. Can't say whether that is actually true or not, but it is th esort of thing Wellington would have said.

    Blucher and Wellingotn certainly spoke to eahc othe rin French which was fairly normal at th etime as French was th einternational language. Glad we got that fixed.

    I think the criticisms of the film that have been mentioned are valid, but as I said earlier, it was designed as entertainment, not as a documentary.

    As for Sharpe, what is wrong with all the programmes is that they were done on hopelessly small budgets and don't do anything like justce to the books. Also, inmy opinion, Sean Bean does not do the character justice. To be fair, though, they are designed as adventure stories with the historic battles really just a backdrop.

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  • Message 7

    , in reply to message 6.

    Posted by Eliza6Beth (U2637732) on Monday, 23rd January 2006

    Sean Bean is perfect. Just perfect. Perfect perfect perfect. But then, I'm a wee bit biased thanks to my X chromosome...... smiley - smiley

    Eliza.

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  • Message 8

    , in reply to message 5.

    Posted by colonelblimp (U1705702) on Tuesday, 24th January 2006


    PS = what was wrong with the Sharpe version - I don't really remember it very well. (if at all) There was a lot of time at inns, I seem to recall, but probably because it was cheaperΜύ


    As a drama, it was quite fun. From the viewpoint of historical accuracy, as Tony says, it's let down by the small number of extras involved, which looks a bit silly as a representation of a full scale battle. Separate actions that took place at Hougomont and La Haye Sainte were shown as a single episode, and there was much currently non-PC (and, to be fair, probably inaccurate)sneering at the Dutch-Belgian and Prussian contribution. Also, the way in which Sharpe manages to teleport himself to every crisis on the battlefield is pretty far-fetched! To my mind, there's too much William Shatner-style OTT acting, with extras hurling themselves through the air as a shell bursts (in fact, apart from a minority of howitzers, most artillery fired solid shot or, on the British side, shrapnel) or reeling away from sword-strokes, melodramatically clutching their head with cries of "YAAAARGH!" or "GERRROCCCCCK!".

    But it was good entertainment, one of the best of the Sharpe episodes. Certainly better than that ridiculous tale about the Aztecs, or the terminally boring one where he was cavorting round Yorkshire with Luddites - which I switched off. The book was quite good, too.

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  • Message 9

    , in reply to message 7.

    Posted by LongWeekend (U3023428) on Tuesday, 24th January 2006

    Was afraid you'd ask about the aphorisms. Can't find my sources, but I think it's at least the one about gin, and possibly the one about his hair.

    The Ivans probably enjoyed it - beats running around in rubber noddy suits, and they probably got better fed than usual, to impress the foreigners. I have the film programme (remember them?)which has pictures of them rehearsing in their normal uniforms - if you look closely at the film, troops in the background have red or blue jackets over khaki trousers, and a lot of "muskets" are bolt-action rifles.

    Wife has this X-Chromosome thing about Sean Bean, too. Very strange. Sharpe ruined The Fellowship of the Ring for me. I kept expecting the Trusted Men to turn up, and then the thing would have been done and dusted in 45 minutes.

    Sgt Harper would have been good as Sam, though:

    Sam: Where are we going, Mr Frodo?

    Frodo: Over the hills and far away, Sam.

    Sam: Which hills, and how far?

    Report message9

  • Message 10

    , in reply to message 9.

    Posted by Eliza6Beth (U2637732) on Tuesday, 24th January 2006

    Luckily for the Y folk, SB's getting on a bit now. Also seems to have become the Up North Alan Rickman of Hollywood playing the TBB (Token British Badguy).

    Hated the Aztec one, daft or not, as far too goulish. I didn't like the Needlewoman either. Or the faithless wife. And I don't really remember the nice Normandy widow. But there you go, I wasn't really looking at the females!

    it's a great series overall though, though I've only seen them in fits and starts. A sort of Hornblower for the Army (but with LOADS better looking actor!!!), and ideal for getting teenagers to learn some history without their realising it (usually the best way to teach teens....)(they get so cross when they realise they've ended up with more in their brains than they intended to let in while lying in slumped torpor across the entire sofa).

    Slightly more seriously, just watched (endless repeat!) of part one of Waterloo with (Richard Hughes?) (rides around on horses all the time), and at the site of Assaye he was given some cannister that the local children dug up. Fascinating to see (I'd cross questioned on artillery on another thread).

    Also, RH makes much of W's devotion to logistics. In general, if the French armies in the peninsular lived off the land (ie, peasants), and the Brits did not, did W get either any more money from the British government, or even more stick, for paying for what his troops ate? ie, was paying for food in his budget allocation?

    Thanks, Eliza.

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  • Message 11

    , in reply to message 10.

    Posted by Mark (U2073932) on Tuesday, 24th January 2006

    The french army did indeed live off the land, which did not find favour with the spanish or portuguese populace.
    The British when Wellesley took command had a highly effective commissar system, so "we could trace a biscuit from it's production into a soldiers mouth." I'm sure food was in the army's budget as a daily soldeirs pay was rarely received in full, so the rest had to go somwhere.

    Napoleon was used to campaigns in the rhine and the po valleys where food was plentiful and had not calculated the barreness of the Peninsula.

    Wellington was extremely severe with soldiers who stole and took great pains with his provosts to keep order. e.g. Lt Ayres in Sharpe's Gold. Wellington would more often than not hang the offenders to keep the peace.
    Wellington was known however to retract death sentences if the unit the man had fought in had done so with distinction.

    When the allies did invade France Wellington did not want a repeat of a hostile population, so he had spanish coin melted down into french francs by the less than honest coiners in the ranks. They were virtually indistinguishable from the real thing.

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  • Message 12

    , in reply to message 11.

    Posted by Eliza6Beth (U2637732) on Tuesday, 24th January 2006

    It must point to one of the most obvious weaknesses of Napoleon - his contempt and disregard for anyone else, both his soldiers, endlessly conscripted to his use, left to rot in Russia etc, and his contempt for the populations his armies moved among.

    Worse than a crime....*

    If you make enough enemies in life, they usually get you in the end.

    Eliza.

    * How many such blunders did he make, I wonder?

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  • Message 13

    , in reply to message 12.

    Posted by Mark (U2073932) on Tuesday, 24th January 2006

    As you say his contempt for his soldiers in well known but during the advance into russia, his army was a conglomaration of poles, danes, germans, prussians, austrians, spanish and egyptian marmalukes. Probably one reason he cared little for their demise as they were not from his own corsica.

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  • Message 14

    , in reply to message 3.

    Posted by Idamante (U1894562) on Tuesday, 24th January 2006

    it says little about the Prussians, and the only reference I can recall to the Dutch-Belgian troops is the comment from Wellington to Picton: "Bylandt's brigade has broke. Μύ

    I understand that the film was savagely cut before release and a lot of the "Prussian" footage ended up on the cutting room floor.

    As for "revionist tosh" - if you visit the Rijksmuseum in Amsterdam you can see a very large painting of the (quote) "Dutch victory" at Waterloo!

    Report message14

  • Message 15

    , in reply to message 14.

    Posted by LongWeekend (U3023428) on Tuesday, 24th January 2006

    You can also try the painting in the Musee de l'Armee "The Eve of Waterloo" which shows, in the distance, an advancing French force, led by Napoleon, while in the foreground, the Brits flee in panic (and they are Brits, not Brunswickers, Dutch, Prussians, etc).

    (It's in the corridor connecting the main museum to the new(-ish)Resistance exhibition.)

    Wellington's logistics were his strong suit in the Peninsular. I have been told (but not read anything on it) that his logs in the 100 days were not nearly as well organised, and that he was very sensitive about this in later years. Apparently, the "and statistics" bit of "lies, damned lies.." was in reference to remarks made about this in the account his was critiquing. Don't know if anyone has seen anything in detail on this?

    Report message15

  • Message 16

    , in reply to message 15.

    Posted by Eliza6Beth (U2637732) on Wednesday, 25th January 2006

    I expect French schoolchildren are taught that Waterloo, like Trafalgar, was a draw.... !!!!

    As for W and the logistics of the 100 days, I guess that in fairness to him they'd all been caught on the hop by N's escape, the low countries were not Spain where he'd had loads of time and experience to get them right, and that he had a multinational army in Belgium to cope with.

    Eliza.

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  • Message 17

    , in reply to message 16.

    Posted by LongWeekend (U3023428) on Wednesday, 25th January 2006

    And he was ill (piles, yuk), and he was outnumbered, and he was let down by his subordinates...(and the sun was in his eyes, and the pitch was bumpy - oh, sorry, that was the Aussies).

    Apparently, the Spanish teach Trafalgar (where they had better, and better fought ships) as the beginning of Spanish resistance to French mastery.

    The implications of the criticisms of The Peer's logistics in the 100 Days was that he was neglecting his army for the delights of the Brussels social whirl (and, possibly, the
    delights of the Ambassador's wife - Virginia McKenna, btw, one for the Y chromosome)

    "Amateurs think in terms of tactics, professionals in terms of logistics". I would love to know if there is anything out there on this point.

    Report message17

  • Message 18

    , in reply to message 17.

    Posted by Eliza6Beth (U2637732) on Wednesday, 25th January 2006

    Plus betrayed by Ney, don't let's forget! But it does beg the question, what SHOULD N have done differently, in the circumstances, if he'd wanted to win the campaign? (er, listen to those Marshalls who'd fought W in Spain and knew his tactics? eg, a fondness for reverse slopes)

    Gosh, did W have a thing for the Duchess of R then? Mind you, I think he was quite a lad's lad wasn't he, with such a sad, unhappy marriage (sad and unhappy for both of them, of course, probably more so for her).

    So glad you like VMcK - makes Liz Hurley look common as muck, dear! (ooh, B**chy)

    Eliza.

    Report message18

  • Message 19

    , in reply to message 18.

    Posted by LongWeekend (U3023428) on Wednesday, 25th January 2006

    Think he had the right operational idea, but it was a gamble, and the bad weather, which ment he couldn't start the battle soon enough, was enough to tip the balance, that and his less than complete grip on the battle, whereas Wellington was on top the whole time - and had to be. "It wouldn't have done, if I hadn't been there", quite so, Your Grace.

    Having the boiler replaced, and some radiators moved six inches to the right (X chromosome thing?) so can't get at my books. Think the Duchess of R revelation is in Hibbert. The story about him finding the amulet on Kitty's arm after her death is tragic. My favorite Wellington/female story, though, is the one about him going up to a child in Dover Castle and offering to get them a commission when they were older, to get the response "But I'm a girl, Mr Dook".

    VMcK, Sylvia Sims (Ice Cold in Alex), Honor Blackman (A Night To Remember), etc. It was all those Βι¶ΉΤΌΕΔ2 Saturday afternoon showings - we weren't a soccer family. Liz who? Mind you, Rachel Weiz is nice, and the son likes her, too. Apparently, Brendan Fraser will do for the distaff side, at a pinch.

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  • Message 20

    , in reply to message 19.

    Posted by LongWeekend (U3023428) on Thursday, 26th January 2006

    Having got back to the books, can't find the reference to the Duchess, so better withdraw that infamous suggestion (at least until I do find it)! Hibbert makes mention of Lady Frances Wedderburn-Webster, who had succumbed to Lord Byron the previous year. Richard Holmes (that's the bloke with the moustache riding around on horses) notes that The Peer was criticised for inviting all the "Ladies of Loose Character" to the parties he held, so the general principle applies.

    His logistics problem probably wasn't helped by his QM Maj Gen Sir Hudson Lowe " a damned fool", who Wellington eventually got replaced with De Lancey.

    The "sum of the earth" line seems to have popped up in correspondence in 1813, and not in the form in the film. "That article" is a pre-Waterloo observation.

    I'm going to have to watch it again.

    Report message20

  • Message 21

    , in reply to message 10.

    Posted by Grumpyfred (U2228930) on Thursday, 26th January 2006

    For those who are interested, Bean is now shooting a new Sharpe, based on his time in India. So how does he play a younger Sharpe?????

    Report message21

  • Message 22

    , in reply to message 21.

    Posted by LongWeekend (U3023428) on Thursday, 26th January 2006

    Active service in the tropics ages a man so....

    Perhaps they'll reset it to post-Waterloo.

    However, Mr Cruise (45) is about to play a man who died aged 29, in "The Few", and Isabelle Adjani played a 20 year-old, very convincingly, in La Reine Margot when she was 40, so perhaps the rules are different for these strolling players?

    Report message22

  • Message 23

    , in reply to message 21.

    Posted by Mark (U2073932) on Thursday, 26th January 2006

    Not only Sharpe having to look younger but also one sgt Obadiah Hakeswill, who contrives to get Sharpe flogged for striking his captain. And will Hugh Frazer play Arthur Wellesley?

    Report message23

  • Message 24

    , in reply to message 23.

    Posted by LongWeekend (U3023428) on Thursday, 26th January 2006

    So long as it's not Brendan Fraser.

    Perhaps Christopher Plummer's daughter could do it?

    Have to confess, haven't read the India ones - gave up after Waterloo. But have been meaning to reread Brigadier Gerard:

    "I am the finest swordsman in all of the French Light Cavalry!"

    "And I am an indifferent hack-and-thrust man of His Majesty's Foot Guards."

    Or was tht line only in the movie?

    Cheers

    C3S

    Report message24

  • Message 25

    , in reply to message 23.

    Posted by Grumpyfred (U2228930) on Thursday, 26th January 2006

    I havec read all the Sharpes, but the only problem with writing earlier stories later, or as Cornwall is doing now, Slot ins. You already know that what ever happens certain characters will survive Cornwall has tried new characters, but they have not taken off.

    Report message25

  • Message 26

    , in reply to message 24.

    Posted by Mark (U2073932) on Thursday, 26th January 2006

    Oh read the earlier books, they really are worth it.

    Sharpes' Tiger, Triumph, Fortress, Trafalgar and Prey.

    Report message26

  • Message 27

    , in reply to message 26.

    Posted by Grumpyfred (U2228930) on Thursday, 26th January 2006

    And Sharpes Escape

    Report message27

  • Message 28

    , in reply to message 27.

    Posted by LongWeekend (U3023428) on Thursday, 26th January 2006

    This beginning to sound like "Biggles Flies Sideways"....

    Report message28

  • Message 29

    , in reply to message 28.

    Posted by Grumpyfred (U2228930) on Thursday, 26th January 2006

    No, he flew backwards. I remember.

    Report message29

  • Message 30

    , in reply to message 29.

    Posted by LongWeekend (U3023428) on Thursday, 26th January 2006

    That was one of the prequels.

    "Biggles Flies Sideways" came after "Biggles on The Carpet"

    Report message30

  • Message 31

    , in reply to message 30.

    Posted by TonyG (U1830405) on Thursday, 26th January 2006

    No, it was "Biggles' Flies Undone" you are thinking of.

    Report message31

  • Message 32

    , in reply to message 31.

    Posted by LongWeekend (U3023428) on Thursday, 26th January 2006

    No, that was the one before "Biggles on the Carpet." "Worrals Makes A Complaint" was published at the same time.

    BTW, before I forget, redcoat, thanks for the recommendation, will give the earlier books a whirl.

    Could Bean play Biggles, or is Gimlet more his line?

    Report message32

  • Message 33

    , in reply to message 32.

    Posted by Grumpyfred (U2228930) on Thursday, 26th January 2006

    Does anybody remember the Biggles film. What a load of rubbish

    Report message33

  • Message 34

    , in reply to message 3.

    Posted by marduk-slayer of tiamat (U2258525) on Thursday, 26th January 2006

    Dare I admit I saw it at the cinema when it was originally released? I think it's fairly accurate, certainly more so than "Sharpe's Waterloo", as regards the course of the battle from the British viewpoint. However, it says little about the Prussians, and the only reference I can recall to the Dutch-Belgian troops is the comment from Wellington to Picton: "Bylandt's brigade has broke. Plug the gap, Sir, if you please.". So, accurate as far as it goes but rather parochial and jingoistic.

    If DaveMBA reads this thread, I'm sure he's better informed on this than I am!Μύ


    you know believe it or not sharpes waterloo is obstensibly about sharpe (a fictional character), and the south essex/prince of wales own volunteers (a fictional battalion), so of course it is not going to be accurate- and taking into account that the battlefield is under tarmac and houses for the most part-what dyou expect?

    Report message34

  • Message 35

    , in reply to message 21.

    Posted by marduk-slayer of tiamat (U2258525) on Thursday, 26th January 2006

    For those who are interested, Bean is now shooting a new Sharpe, based on his time in India. So how does he play a younger Sharpe?????Μύ

    its not about the earlier books-its set after sharpes devil (the last book)

    Report message35

  • Message 36

    , in reply to message 9.

    Posted by marduk-slayer of tiamat (U2258525) on Thursday, 26th January 2006

    Was afraid you'd ask about the aphorisms. Can't find my sources, but I think it's at least the one about gin, and possibly the one about his hair.

    The Ivans probably enjoyed it - beats running around in rubber noddy suits, and they probably got better fed than usual, to impress the foreigners. I have the film programme (remember them?)which has pictures of them rehearsing in their normal uniforms - if you look closely at the film, troops in the background have red or blue jackets over khaki trousers, and a lot of "muskets" are bolt-action rifles.

    Wife has this X-Chromosome thing about Sean Bean, too. Very strange. Sharpe ruined The Fellowship of the Ring for me. I kept expecting the Trusted Men to turn up, and then the thing would have been done and dusted in 45 minutes.

    Sgt Harper would have been good as Sam, though:

    Sam: Where are we going, Mr Frodo?

    Frodo: Over the hills and far away, Sam.

    Sam: Which hills, and how far?

    Μύ



    frodo:-why sam, the hills of flanders portugal and spain!

    Report message36

  • Message 37

    , in reply to message 33.

    Posted by LongWeekend (U3023428) on Thursday, 26th January 2006

    GrumpyFred

    Agreed, but it does have the immortal line "If you can fly a Sopwith Camel, you can fly anything."

    There seems to have been a counter-attack from the Sharpe contingent. Biggles Takes the Eurostar?

    You have to make allowances for the needs of drama, but where you are dealing with historicl events, there have to be limits. I would suggest that "Waterloo" and "The Battle of Britain" meet that requirement, but, for instance, "A Bridge Too Far" fails, for all its attention to detail.

    Report message37

  • Message 38

    , in reply to message 36.

    Posted by Mark (U2073932) on Thursday, 26th January 2006

    Of course they were chosen men not trusted men.

    And I'm totally with you on sean bean in the LOTR the first thing he says in his yorkshire bir after cutting his hand on the sword blade..........."still sharp!"

    He must have been smiling when he first read that.

    Report message38

  • Message 39

    , in reply to message 35.

    Posted by Grumpyfred (U2228930) on Thursday, 26th January 2006

    My info suggests that they are doing the Pre Spain stories, which where set in India. Sharpes Devil was set yeara after Waterloo, and in South America So who could play a young Sharpe?

    Report message39

  • Message 40

    , in reply to message 37.

    Posted by Grumpyfred (U2228930) on Friday, 27th January 2006

    Biggles was right about the Camel though. If you could fly that, you could fly anything. The rotery engine tried to turn the aircraft round the prop. instead of the other way. A good pilot could use this while trying to escape. Release the stick, the Camel started to roll, grab the stick back and pull away, Faster than the aircraft would respond to controls. A new pilot could send it into a spin, and Whoops.

    Report message40

  • Message 41

    , in reply to message 34.

    Posted by colonelblimp (U1705702) on Friday, 27th January 2006

    Dare I admit I saw it at the cinema when it was originally released? I think it's fairly accurate, certainly more so than "Sharpe's Waterloo", as regards the course of the battle from the British viewpoint. However, it says little about the Prussians, and the only reference I can recall to the Dutch-Belgian troops is the comment from Wellington to Picton: "Bylandt's brigade has broke. Plug the gap, Sir, if you please.". So, accurate as far as it goes but rather parochial and jingoistic.

    If DaveMBA reads this thread, I'm sure he's better informed on this than I am!Μύ


    you know believe it or not sharpes waterloo is obstensibly about sharpe (a fictional character), and the south essex/prince of wales own volunteers (a fictional battalion), so of course it is not going to be accurate- and taking into account that the battlefield is under tarmac and houses for the most part-what dyou expect?Μύ


    I expect "Sharpe's Waterloo" to be entertaining - and, as I said in another post, it is! What I was saying here was that the feature film is a more accurate portayal of what actually happened (which was the original question was about), not that "Sharpe" isn't worth watching.

    Report message41

  • Message 42

    , in reply to message 36.

    Posted by LongWeekend (U3023428) on Friday, 27th January 2006

    Sam: (mutters) I'll murder that recruiting sergeant when I find him.


    Anyone else notice Gandalf yell "Volley Fire!" when the Cave Trolls come through the gates?

    Report message42

  • Message 43

    , in reply to message 42.

    Posted by marduk-slayer of tiamat (U2258525) on Friday, 27th January 2006

    yep i did

    Report message43

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