Wars and Conflicts permalink
Christmas 1914 at the Western Front
This discussion has been closed.
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Message 1.
Posted by Thomas_B (U1667093) on Wednesday, 14th December 2005
A few weeks ago I saw an film at the cinema with the titel "Merry Christmas". It is an film about an event at the Western Front in 1914 when soldiers of the French, Scots and Germans met each other on Christmas evening. They agreed an truce for the two following Christmas days to burry their fallen comrades and it turned into an short fraternisation.
The film based on an real historical event, although probably made up with an love story, and all actors spoke in their native language which sentences were undertitelt.
Did anyone in Britain saw that film too or know if this will be shown at the cinema? -
Message 2
Posted by DL (U1683040) on Wednesday, 14th December 2005
Haven't seen the film Thomas,
But I have read a very interesting book on the subject. The truce of Christmas 1914 was very widespread on the Western Front, and indeed the truce in some sectors actually dragged on for weeks before fighting resumed!
There were limited occurrences of a similar kind in 1915, but after that, I imagine there wasn't much in the way of goodwill to all mankind remaining by then!
Cheers
DL -
Message 3
Posted by Thomas_B (U1667093) on Wednesday, 14th December 2005
I supposed that the film might not been shown in Britain (maybe yes or not).
I was impressed by the film itself and the best part of it to me was, when the Scots started to play the bagpipes and sing the song "I am dreaming of home".
When I read the advertisment of the cinema in which I saw it with an mark "In the European Orginalversion", I asked myself, what does that mean?. Simple that the actors spoke in the film in their native language. And the Scots with their typicall accent (the rolling R). I understand most of the English spoken by the Scots, so I haven´t got to read the German undertitel, but by the French language it was over. Ten years ago I attended an language crash-course in French for one week. There is not much left in my mind.
If you are interested in visit the website of the film, here is the link:
There is also an new book here published about that event. I consider to buy and read it.
In the 1950s there was made an German film about Stalingrad with the titel "Hunde wollt ihr ewig leben?". In that film some similar event occured, but it was only for an truce of 30 minutes in Stalingrad on Christmas 1942. From then on it was a few days over an month till General Paulus surrendered to the Red Army and Stalingrad felt and brought the turn of WWII.
Unfortunately the song "I am dreaming of home" is not on the film music cd with playing the bagpipes. I have an favour for Scotish bagpipe music.
Have you ever attended in London the "Trooping the Colours" or in Edinbourgh the "Military Tatoo"?.
On several times, some Scots travel to Germany and you can see an lonely Scotish bagpiper in his tradtionally clothing playing traditional music. It was in winter last year when I was walking the pedestrian precint and there was an Scotish bagpiper. One man out of the crowd asked him "Do you are from Scotland?" and the bagpiper stand there in his Kilt. No further comment to that. I bought instead asking some questions rather two of his music CD´s.
Cheers
Thomas -
Message 4
Posted by Caro (U1691443) on Thursday, 15th December 2005
Hello, Thomas and DL,
As far as I can tell Merry Christmas is starting in Britain this week. In New Zealand it is called Joyeux Noel and I was most amazed to see what it was about, since I am reading that book about the truce right now. That seemed such an odd coincidence (though I did read a scientist once saying if people thought about all the coincidences that don’t happen they wouldn’t be so surprised at the ones that do). I did write about this movie recently to the Movies board.
It’s coming to our theatre in Dunedin quite soon, but unfortunately my husband doesn’t really want to see it. I tell him it will be uplifting and he says it’s not very uplifting to think of all the killing that happened afterwards. I still want to see it. Might be able to while he’s watching King Kong that I don’t really care about (Peter Jackson or not).
Cheers, Caro.
PS I am only on this board (which looks quite interesting but too time-consuming) because I am trying to find DL’s remarks and mine about Charlotte Godley and the Maori. I have lost it somewhere. -
Message 5
Posted by Disgruntled_Renegade (U530059) on Thursday, 15th December 2005
A documentry on over the summer about the Xmas truce pointed out that when it came to an end, one German regiment/company i forget which actually mutinied and refused to fire in anger - they were eventually talked into taking their guns back up by their sergeants - I think they werre from Munich...
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Message 6
Posted by Thomas_B (U1667093) on Thursday, 15th December 2005
Hello Caro,
Your husband might be right in his opinion. The film itself has its sad parts too. I think that one important thing of the film is, that it shows that after the soldiers had met each other, they won´ted to shoot each other again. So the enemy became more personal and so it is in an war. It is easier to kill an enemy you don´t personally know than one you met. It looked for those few days as if there had been the chance to end the war, but the leaders of the troops and also of the Nations had not the same desire.
The film has also sentimenal scenes, but I think it was good made.
I wasn´t sure if the film will be shown in other countries too, because such films are more shown in cinemas for an smaller audience who is interested in films like this. When I saw the film I was alone in whole cinema. My wife also wasn´t interested in see that film, because she isn´t much interested in war films. One of the greatest films ever was made is Lord of the Rings, filmed in your country. I have an picture book about the nature of NZ, very beautiful there, but I really know very less about the country itself.
Cheers and if we don´t meet till the holidays, I wish you and your husband Merry Christmas and an Happy New Year.
Thomas -
Message 7
Posted by Mike Alexander (U1706714) on Thursday, 15th December 2005
A documentry on over the summer about the Xmas truce pointed out that when it came to an end, one German regiment/company i forget which actually mutinied and refused to fire in anger - they were eventually talked into taking their guns back up by their sergeants - I think they werre from Munich...
Truces of varying degree were common throughout the war, though perhaps none quite so blatant as Christmas 1914.
There's a very interesting book by Tony Ashworth called 'Trench Warfare: the live and let live system', which argues that simple common sense meant that in many sectors at various periods in the war men would fire only when fired at, and each side would respect each other's breakfast times and suchlike. These would then become 'quiet sectors' - effectively tacit truces.
In Flanders, in the winter when the trenches became severely waterlogged both sides would often be repairing their defences in the open. You wouldn't shoot the German guy because if you did they would shoot your guy. Pretty obvious really.
Of course the brass hats didn't like this one little bit, and brought in more and more measures to try and keep up the aggressive spirit. Often a simple order for artillery assault would break the truce. Because the artillerymen were not in range of the enemy they had no particular incentive to maintain the peace. And a passive infantry unit, having been subject to an artillery onslaught, will obviously want to take it out on the opposing infantry. -
Message 8
Posted by Scottish Librarian (U1772828) on Thursday, 15th December 2005
Gruss Gott Thomas,
The film is coming out here in Scotland this week and presumably will als be out in the rest of the UK as well, i look forward to it,
Paul -
Message 9
Posted by Scottish Librarian (U1772828) on Thursday, 15th December 2005
Oh i meant to say, if you can ever make it the Edinburgh military tatoo is outstanding if you can ever make it, went this year, lots of bagpipes but also amazing military bands from all round the world,
Paul -
Message 10
Posted by Thomas_B (U1667093) on Thursday, 15th December 2005
Einen Guten Tag Paul (gorman1),
Thank you for telling this and I am sure, you as (I suppose) Scottish man will not have any problems to understand the Scots speaking, as I had a bit.
When you go to see that film, in the beginning there were shown three children, one after another, standing alone in an classroom and reffering some poems, the last is in German language and then the picutre move forward and you see the sea, then it came on land and you see the fields of Scotland. The colour of the fields there are so special I never saw something like that in England nor in Ireland. I visited Glasgow at twice (in 2004 and this year), Edinbourgh for once last year and took the train to travel there. The water so clear you can see it even by sitting in the train and look out of the window. Beautiful landscape.
I am interest in reading your opinion when you saw the film.
Regards
Thomas -
Message 11
Posted by Turnwrest (U2188092) on Thursday, 15th December 2005
From what I can learn of it, the film is about as accurate as you'd expect - that is, the dates are about right, there was a truce or rather a series of unofficial truces, but the details are pure fiction.
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Message 12
Posted by DL (U1683040) on Thursday, 15th December 2005
Mike!
Thanks, I was trying to remember the book I'd read on the same subject! An interesting (and surprising) read!
Cheers -
Message 13
Posted by Thomas_B (U1667093) on Thursday, 15th December 2005
Hi Paul (gorman1)
On several times the military tatoo was shown on the German TV, some weeks or even months later when after the event. The only wrong thing on that was the German comments because with that, I couldn´t enjoy the music as I would liked.
I know when this event happen, the whole City of Edinbourgh is crowded with many tourists and it is necessary to book b&b in time advanced.
At all, the TV cannot bring the special atmosphere as it might be when you see it live at the Castle.
I think that bagpipe music is something you like it or not when you hear it for the first time. I like that since my childhood.
There is another thing, although I am not an footballfan. A few years ago I saw on TV an football match with the Scottish team and before the match started, the fans sang the Scottish anthem - Flower of Scotland - that sounded to me overwhelming.
Thomas -
Message 14
Posted by Thomas_B (U1667093) on Thursday, 15th December 2005
Hello Turnwrest,
Yes that is me opinion too. I think that it is always not that easy to make films upon historical events without integrate some fictional scenes in the film too. Films which only bring the evident historical facts might attract not so many people, although I wouldn´t refuse to see such films.
The film itself received some bad critics here, because of the fictioned scenes.
Regards
Thomas -
Message 15
Posted by Caro (U1691443) on Thursday, 15th December 2005
It's more than a week till Christmas, Thomas - did you really think you'd get rid of me that easily!
It seems to me obvious that if people get to know each other they will feel friendly towards them. I never understand why people talk about the Stockholm Syndrome as if this is a psychological problem instead of a normal reaction.
New Zealand is very beautiful, but I have yet to visit a country that isn't. Scotland was just stunning, I remember Germany as lovely too and other countries of Europe (though it is a long time since I have been there).
Re Scottish in movies: We saw a little Scottish movie (My Name is Joe - one of my very favourites) here and in this English-speaking country it had sub-titles! Dunedin has 2 sort of independent theatres that show non-Hollywood films. One of them is quite tiny - one of its theatres only seats about 15 people. It is very intimate and people sitting next to you are liable to talk to you and ask you what you think about various bits of the movie, which I find a little disconcerting.
Merry Christmas to you and your family too.
Cheers, Caro.
Hello Caro,
Your husband might be right in his opinion. The film itself has its sad parts too. I think that one important thing of the film is, that it shows that after the soldiers had met each other, they won´ted to shoot each other again. So the enemy became more personal and so it is in an war. It is easier to kill an enemy you don´t personally know than one you met. It looked for those few days as if there had been the chance to end the war, but the leaders of the troops and also of the Nations had not the same desire.
The film has also sentimenal scenes, but I think it was good made.
I wasn´t sure if the film will be shown in other countries too, because such films are more shown in cinemas for an smaller audience who is interested in films like this. When I saw the film I was alone in whole cinema. My wife also wasn´t interested in see that film, because she isn´t much interested in war films. One of the greatest films ever was made is Lord of the Rings, filmed in your country. I have an picture book about the nature of NZ, very beautiful there, but I really know very less about the country itself.
Cheers and if we don´t meet till the holidays, I wish you and your husband Merry Christmas and an Happy New Year.
ճdz -
Message 16
Posted by Thomas_B (U1667093) on Friday, 16th December 2005
Hello Caro,
There was no intention from me to get rid of you. Sorry if I caused any mistake, but I forgot to mention that I am will be not able to use the board till January 2nd 2006 for different reasons. I thought that it would be politely to send you Chrismas greetings before instead as to not send it.
You wrote that you have yet to visit a country that isn´t beautiful. Which country may that be?
Which places have you visited in Germany?.
I have nevern bin outside of Europe and I know from other people who travelled to Australia or New Zealand that to travel there is very expensive. They mostly stayed there for at least two weeks or longer, because an holiday of less than two weeks is not profitable in compare to the costs of the holiday. At this time it must be summer in your country, isn´t it?.
I have never see the film "My Name is Joe" and it sounds a bit funny to me to read that this film was shown with sub-titels in English-speaking country. But never mind, there are also films here, even sub-titels are very rare in German language film, but Germans from the North hardly understand when someone speaks "Schwiezerdütsch" (Swiss-German). I can understand them, but I also have to listen very concentrated when they speak. I can´t mention any titel of an film now, because I don´t remember.
Yes "Independent theatres" or also so called cinemas is what I meant by telling you about the cinema in which I saw the film "Merry Christmas".
I am on the board today for a cuple of hours (so a half past noon), then I sign out till January.
So please take nothing for bad and so you like we will meet us again next year.
Have a good time and as we say in German, bis bald.
Cheers
Thomas -
Message 17
Posted by Turnwrest (U2188092) on Friday, 16th December 2005
For Caro (principally).
My Sumerian friend tells me he is having problems visiting another place - could you convey this news to those there for him, and say "his face is the face of one who has been on a long journey" but he will return soon. -
Message 18
Posted by Giselle-Leah (U1725276) on Friday, 16th December 2005
I've seen various tv programmes on this and found them all to be extremely moving. However, I have heard about an angel being seen in the trenches and witnessed by many.
Has anyone else heard of this?
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Message 19
Posted by Caro (U1691443) on Friday, 16th December 2005
Hello Caro,
There was no intention from me to get rid of you. Sorry if I caused any mistake, but I forgot to mention that I am will be not able to use the board till January 2nd 2006 for different reasons. I thought that it would be politely to send you Chrismas greetings before instead as to not send it.
You wrote that you have yet to visit a country that isn´t beautiful. Which country may that be?
Which places have you visited in Germany?.
I have nevern bin outside of Europe and I know from other people who travelled to Australia or New Zealand that to travel there is very expensive. They mostly stayed there for at least two weeks or longer, because an holiday of less than two weeks is not profitable in compare to the costs of the holiday. At this time it must be summer in your country, isn´t it?.
I have never see the film "My Name is Joe" and it sounds a bit funny to me to read that this film was shown with sub-titels in English-speaking country. But never mind, there are also films here, even sub-titels are very rare in German language film, but Germans from the North hardly understand when someone speaks "Schwiezerdütsch" (Swiss-German). I can understand them, but I also have to listen very concentrated when they speak. I can´t mention any titel of an film now, because I don´t remember.
Yes "Independent theatres" or also so called cinemas is what I meant by telling you about the cinema in which I saw the film "Merry Christmas".
I am on the board today for a cuple of hours (so a half past noon), then I sign out till January.
So please take nothing for bad and so you like we will meet us again next year.
Have a good time and as we say in German, bis bald.
Cheers
ճdz
I was just joking, Thomas (with regard to you first sentence. You may already be away - if so I hope you have a lovely holiday. I am away to my niece's wedding today and won't be around for a couple of days.)
In Germany (on my honeymoon, now 32 years ago, so rather vague in my memory) we spent two or three days in Munich which I don't think I liked very much. I don't think that was the city't fault, more a combination of things. Mostly when we first arrived we ate at the railway station (not proably in itself the nicest eating place) and a man was sitting near us with a huge growth on his face and he kept shouting at the waitress. I'm afraid I am not very good with facial deformities and it put me off a bit.
The rest of Germany we would have seen through the train window. My husband has been to Germany since then and my son spent a couple of months there near Dusseldorf. He liked Berlin and would rather like to go back there, I think.
I want to correct a little bit of your English, Thomas. I hope you will not mind me saying this, and I don't feel I really have the right to, since my ability with foreign languages are limited to a couple of sentences in Maori and French and the odd word in German and Latin. Anyway, after that long preamble. When you use the first person adjective before a noun it should be 'my' not 'me'. Thus "my book" "my job" etc. Sometimes people pronounce this 'me' and it sounds a little wrong. In formal English it is always "my".
Best Wishes for a lovely Christmas and New Year,
Caro. -
Message 20
Posted by mulvers (U2607308) on Friday, 16th December 2005
I've seen various tv programmes on this and found them all to be extremely moving. However, I have heard about an angel being seen in the trenches and witnessed by many.
Has anyone else heard of this?
I THINK THIS WOULD BE A REFERENCE TO THE "ANGEL OF MONS" SUPPOSEDLY SEEN OVER THE BATTLEFIELD DURING THE FIRST BATTLE OF MONS. -
Message 21
Posted by Caro (U1691443) on Monday, 19th December 2005
I have finished my book on the Christmas truce (written by Simon someone). During it there was a very definite feeling that the Prussian Germans were “bad” and the Saxon Germans were “gooder”. I didn’t quite know the difference or why there would be friction between them.
This book finished with a section of “What If’ the truce had remained. I don’t know enough 20th century history to understand exactly what HAS happened in Europe and Africa etc to understand what MIGHT have happened. But it was full of interesting theorising, about Germany becoming the main power in the world with the USA, Bolshevism not taking hold, France becoming very weak, etc. No doubt this has been thoroughly discussed on these boards before.
Cheers, Caro. -
Message 22
Posted by Mike Alexander (U1706714) on Tuesday, 20th December 2005
Yep, the angels were supposedly seen at Mons. Though this story first appeared in a fictional short story, then was later reported as fact in the British press!
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Message 23
Posted by Mike Alexander (U1706714) on Tuesday, 20th December 2005
Caro - certainly the Prussians had the reputation of being more warlike and the Saxons more peace-loving. But the same was true of different parts of the British army. Elite, old-army regiments such as the Royal Welch prided themselves on keeping an aggressive spirit at all times; wherever you found these sorts of regiments there would be not much danger of a 'quiet sector'.
It tended to be the newer Kitchener's army type outfits which were more inclined to develop tacit truces with the enemy.
A lot of patrols and raids in no-man's land were mounted in order to find out exactly what regiment was opposite - it's always good to know what you're dealing with. Conversely, the people who went on these patrols and raids often removed their badges and tags so that their regiment could not be identified if they were captured. -
Message 24
Posted by Turnwrest (U2188092) on Tuesday, 20th December 2005
One odd point about the "angels" of Mons - they were frequently described as "dressed in shining armour lke St George on a soveriegn.">
He isn't dressed that way - he's shown as naked apart from a cloak.
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