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Fate of Wales and Scotland

• Message 1.Β 

  Posted by Rule_Britannia (U2429840) on Friday, 2nd December 2005

  From what i have heard, Hitler had no intention of invading Wales and Scotland, i no that if London fell and the main defences collapesed it would have been difficult to achieve anything but woudnt the fight have continued into wales and scotland. I should go into more depth in this but i get lost when i consider efects on morale and stuff. soz.

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• Message 2

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  Posted by Mani (U1821129) on Saturday, 3rd December 2005

  BR,
  
  "Hitler had no intention of invading Wales and Scotland" I think a more likely statement was that he had no intention of invading Britain

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• Message 3

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  Posted by OUNUPA (U2078829) on Saturday, 3rd December 2005

  Hitler had no the Facilities for invading Britain whose role was to enable his intentions .....

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• Message 4

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  Posted by Rule_Britannia (U2429840) on Saturday, 3rd December 2005

  I gues this is more of a hypothetical question, what if Hitler had invaded, would the defence of Britian have continued into wales and scotland. i am also very sorry if my message sounded in any way that the welsh or scotish would not have fought or that it was england not briain fighting hitler. that was no way how i meant the message to sound.

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• Message 5

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  Posted by Richie (U1238064) on Saturday, 3rd December 2005

  I think that anyone who thinks that Hitler would (if successful with the inital invasion) have stopped at London is being a little too naive. At what point would you draw the line? Where is the natural frontier to stop at? With the Mines and Foundries of South Wales an invasion of here would have been a must. With the great industrial muscle of the Midlands and the North of England an occupation there would be nessecary. The same with the Clyde area of Scotland. The hinterlands would also need to be controlled. Baring in mind the size of the UK compared to France then the most logical option for the Nazis was the total occupation of the enitre island. Invading as far as the Thames leaves the whole base for a British state under the control of the Brits, while the Germans hold some pretty cliffes and some nice palaces. There was plenty in both the north of England, Wales and Scotland to attract the Germans as well as the practical point of not leaving an enemy just sitting there

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• Message 6

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  Posted by George1507 (U2607963) on Sunday, 4th December 2005

  The Army and Navy are (and were) crucially dependent on bases in the North, and Scotland.
  
  Any German invasion (which we know now was purely hypothetical) would have had to have included Scotland or fail.

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• Message 7

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  Posted by kate_raff (U2686237) on Wednesday, 7th December 2005

  i agree if Hitler had invaded London he would have had to go north and invade the rest of the UK.

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• Message 8

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  Posted by DL (U1683040) on Wednesday, 7th December 2005

  Just to play Devil's Advocate,
  
  Could there have been a similar occupation to that seen in France? There we had the Germans occupying all the areas they had conquered in battle, and the Petain government were left to administer the rest from Vichy in a puppet pro German regime.
  Had there been a successful invasion, would we have seen a ceasefire at some point, with unconquered areas left in the control of a puppet government as we saw with Vichy? I think it is a possibility, and the Germans may have accepted these terms (at least until they decided to put an end to it, and occupy the remaining land). I reckon that this would be quite likely, unless the Brits kept fighting, in which case they would have kept going until all mainland Britain was conquered. As an afterthought, would Eire have invaded Northern Ireland if the British capitulated to the Germans?
  
  Cheers
  DL

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• Message 9

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  Posted by arnaldalmaric (U1756653) on Wednesday, 7th December 2005

  britain_rules,
  
  Replt to #1. A thought occurs to me. In Hitlers and others speeches they refer to "England" a lot of the time. It was common practice in the 1930's and 40's to refer to Britain as England (much to the chagrin of the Scots and Welsh).
  
  Are you possibly getting confused by this?
  
  Militarily it would make sense to fully occupy the British Isles.
  
  Cheers AA.

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• Message 10

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  Posted by Richie (U1238064) on Wednesday, 7th December 2005

  Devils Advocate eh??
  
  Well there could have been a Halifax led government with a restored Ed VIII on the throne.
  
  As to the Vichy element, it would make sense again due to the Imperial aspect. A British Vichy or Quisling Gov't could (under German advice) administer the Empire, but I feel that a vichy style government wasn't an option really in a British invasion. I don't think there were enough elements in place in Britain for that sort of government to work. I think that they would have found quite willing collaborators prepared to man the posts but I feel that a full German Military government would be the order of the day. Some puppet installations to quieten the natives but the upper ecelons would be 100% German
  
  I beleive that it was always a fear that the RoI would invade the north, but again I am not sure that the Germans would have allowed it given Belfasts position in ship building, and would the Irish have wanted to take over a Prot Ulster? Maybe they would wait for the Germans to sort it out and then petition for its return??

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• Message 11

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  Posted by Nadolig Llawen i mi - eedjit (U2256715) on Thursday, 8th December 2005

  Devils Advocate eh??
  
  Well there could have been a Halifax led government with a restored Ed VIII on the throne.
  
  As to the Vichy element, it would make sense again due to the Imperial aspect. A British Vichy or Quisling Gov't could (under German advice) administer the Empire, but I feel that a vichy style government wasn't an option really in a British invasion. I don't think there were enough elements in place in Britain for that sort of government to work. I think that they would have found quite willing collaborators prepared to man the posts but I feel that a full German Military government would be the order of the day. Some puppet installations to quieten the natives but the upper ecelons would be 100% German
  
  I beleive that it was always a fear that the RoI would invade the north, but again I am not sure that the Germans would have allowed it given Belfasts position in ship building, and would the Irish have wanted to take over a Prot Ulster? Maybe they would wait for the Germans to sort it out and then petition for its return??Β 
  
  Although the ROI government were officially neutral, they still provided airbases and training facilities in the South West of Ireland as well as a number of troops.
  
  As for the hypothetical question of Wales & Scotland holding off, it's not unfeasible that they could, given that they had defended that natural border, plus local knowledge (guerilla fighting being the order of the day), it would have at least given Hitler a bloody nose (given the terrain, etc).

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• Message 12

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  Posted by Disgruntled_Renegade (U530059) on Friday, 9th December 2005

  I have seen it argued that had the invasion taken place, the remnants of british forces might have pulled back into Wales and Scotland, since the mountainous terrain would have made "Blitzkrieg" unworkable.
  
  I certainly would not want to have been a panzer driver attempting to break into wales, were there an active military presence fighting a guerilla war through the hills and mountains...
  
  would kind of make a great modernised adaption of the Welsh sleeping King Arthur legends though!!! 1941 and the dreaded Saxon foe has invaded the british isles once more, so its time for Arthur to wake up, and don an armoured vehicle rather than an armoured suit.....

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• Message 13

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  Posted by Richie (U1238064) on Friday, 9th December 2005

  I have seen it argued that had the invasion taken place, the remnants of british forces might have pulled back into Wales and Scotland, since the mountainous terrain would have made "Blitzkrieg" unworkable.
  
  I certainly would not want to have been a panzer driver attempting to break into wales, were there an active military presence fighting a guerilla war through the hills and mountains...
  
  would kind of make a great modernised adaption of the Welsh sleeping King Arthur legends though!!! 1941 and the dreaded Saxon foe has invaded the british isles once more, so its time for Arthur to wake up, and don an armoured vehicle rather than an armoured suit.....Β 
  
  I think your forgetting the advantage of air power. If the invasion had gone ahead then the RAF would have no air parity let alone superiority. The German airforce would be ina position to do great damage to the remnants of the british army.
  
  The guerilla element is different story of course and the dales of yorkshire, the highlands of scotland and the welsh lountains would make german actions there difficult but not impossible. remember that being an island you can only run so far before you run out of space and if the English back in the 12 century could stave out welsh guerillas then I am sure that the Germans could as well

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