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Edith Cavell

• Message 1.Β 

  Posted by littlebluepanda (U2539334) on Saturday, 19th November 2005

  
  Personally, I feel she is an amazing woman, and should be remember as such, yet I am suprised constantly by how few people are familiar with her!
  
  Is there anyone on her who does - or dosen't - know who she is, whom I might have a conversation with?
  
  

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• Message 2

  , in reply to message 1.

  Posted by Plancenoit (U1237957) on Saturday, 19th November 2005

  Oh my word. Have you read the account of her last few hours???. It will bring tears to your eyes. My daughter attends the European school in Uccle where today they teach the kids, even at an early age, the importance, humility, and total humanity of what Edith Cavell believed in. I'd never heard of her. You won't read too much about her in general history, because under intensive questioning from her German jailers she told the truth, which included, as many see it, dropping people in 'it' who were part of an escape chain. She was a remarkable woman who is sadly overlooked. She did what was right for those she cared about, and her belief in honesty and truth was totally incompatible with the situation in the 14-18 war. Innocence had already been lost. The parade ground where she and a lawyer whose name escapes me were executed is just a 15 min walk from me now, call me an old woosy, but it is a place that to me has an incredible aura of....can't explain it.

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• Message 3

  , in reply to message 1.

  Posted by PaulRyckier (U1753522) on Saturday, 19th November 2005

  Re: Message 1.
  
  Blue Panda,
  
  as a Belgian I learned about her from my childhood on (some 11 years old I think: 1954).
  
  If you are interested I have a lot of details about one of our Belgian heroes.
  
  Welcome to the boards and kind regards.

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• Message 4

  , in reply to message 1.

  Posted by Mike Alexander (U1706714) on Sunday, 20th November 2005

  The really interesting thing about the Cavell affair was that the Germans were well within their rights to shoot her, as she was in breach of internationally agreed conventions, and through her actions turned herself into a combatant.
  
  Stupidly, they followed the letter of the law and executed her, without realising what a public relations disaster this was. The Germans made the same mistake several times in the First World War; the sinking of the Lusitania (similarly legally justified, equally disastrous for PR) springs to mind.

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• Message 5

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  Posted by littlebluepanda (U2539334) on Sunday, 20th November 2005

  
  Yes I agree; the records of her final hours did indeed make me cry, and even now they do.
  
  My elder sister was the one who first introduced me to the inspiring story of Nurse Cavell; She was studing her at her university course. When she died last year, I decided to continue what she had been looking into. I consider her one of the most amazing British women I have ever come across so far.
  
  As for the Lusitania, I do enjoy the conspirisy theories on that. I especially like the idea of the British sinking it themselves... the background and ideas surrounding it make it seem very plauseable. Comments?
  
  Thank you for you welcome also; i am quite new here, and its nice to have people reply to my discussions so willingly.
  
  Blue Panda
  xxxx
  

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• Message 6

  , in reply to message 5.

  Posted by TonyG (U1830405) on Sunday, 20th November 2005

  I have to admit to knowing little more than Edith Cavell's name and the fact that she was shot by the Germans. I did read about her many years ago, but I'm afraid I have forgotten most of the facts. What I do remember, as has been pointed out, is that the Germans acted as though there would be no moral outrage from their enemies. With all the death and destruction of a war, one thing like this can echo far further than the sound of the gunshots.
  
  As has been said, they made this mistake a few times. Ian Hislop's "Not Forgotten" programme has just related the tale of Captain Fryatt who was shot by the Germans after being captured, even though, as a merchant seaman, he was technnically a non-combatant. His crime? Trying to ram a U-boat when it ordered him to stop his ship.
  
  It is nice to know that people remember Cavell and Fryatt.

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• Message 7

  , in reply to message 5.

  Posted by PaulRyckier (U1753522) on Monday, 21st November 2005

  Re: Message 5.
  
  Blue Panda,
  
  I did some research about Edith and thanks to you I learned a lot of asides about WWI that I wasn't fully aware of yet. Even on WWII: The Venlo incident that I had read in another context and with another story.
  
  To start with what Plancenoit says here above: "You won't read too much about her in general history, because under intensive questioning from her German jailers she told the truth, which included,as many see it, dropping people in "it", who were part of an escape chain."
  
  Google: edith cavell dood (attention. it is "dood" in Dutch) first window first entry: "Spot on...Edith Cavell"
  
  I tried also in Google: with edith cavell sigismund payne. But I received always only the two identical texts in Dutch and French that I now translate:
  
  The texts in relation to what Plancenoit said:
  
  Edith Cavell captured by the Germans in St. Gillis 15.8.1915. As the daughter of an English clergyman, she dislikes lies and tells the truth. She is blamed for that by Captain Sigismund Payne. Two of the best Belgian contact persons are arrested by the Germans. Payne says that after that there was a total collapse of the Belgian intelligence service.
  
  As you I was up to now and until Plancenoit mentioned it, only aware of the heroic side of Edith. BTW. I read about some strange stories both in WWI and WWII concerning people in German (and other) captivity, about cracking of the persons under pressure from ruthless interrogators.
  
  Google: sigismund payne.
  The strange coincidence is that the same man Sigismund Payne-Best (1885-1978), who seemingly condems Edith, (WWII)is slept into Germany together with his colleague Stevens and during interrogation they give details about their fellow-country men. Stevens has even a list with names with him of the British intelligence. See the "Venlo incident" and they are locked up for the rest of the war. This is also very interesting for Dirk Marinus IMO.
  
  Also: Google: edith cavell dead
  With a lot of texts in English but that Panda you have already done I suppose.
  
  By doing research for Edith I found some asides about WWI, which are very interesting to me for the knowledge about the war.
  
  Google: edith cavell dood: first window: second entry: "Huiver om de draad"(Shiver concerning the wire). Click in the heading: "English summary of this text" on the red "here".
  
  From spring 1915 between occupied Belgium and neutral Netherlands: a barrier of wires on 2,000 Volt, 200 km long and 3m (yards) high. See further in the English summary with photographs...
  
  Other interesting item also concerning Edith: there is a note about here in the diary of Virginie Loveling on the day of the execution, I have the Dutch text not at hand now but I can translate the note if you want.
  
  Google: edith cavell dood: first window: 4th entry: "In oorlogsnood" (in war sorrows?) Virginie Lovelings dagboek (diary) by Leen Huet: my translation from Dutch: Virginie Loveling was 78, when WWI started. In her diary, she registered 4 years long the events in occupied Ghent. The notes as "In oorlogsnood" had to be hided for the Germans on life risk. Yesterday I read coincidentally some comments about the new book in a weekly: And there they said that she even never told it to her closest family. She learned that in her city the Germans killed one particular citizen for only giving critique on the Germans in public.
  
  About: Virginie Loveling and her sister: read Google: virginie loveling biography (in English).
  
  In Belgium Edith Cavell is still the hero she always was, there is a commemorative plaque about her in Brussels and a hospital named after her.
  
  She is as high estemed in Belgium as that other female resistant from WWI: "Gabrielle Petit" about whom I learned also when I was 11)
  
  
  I even found:
  Google: edith cavell dood: second window 6th entry: Mount Edith Cavell in the Canadian Rocky Mountains with photograph. When I was travelling from Calgary to Vancouver I have to be passed near it, I suppose.
  
  Kind regards,
  
  Paul.

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• Message 8

  , in reply to message 7.

  Posted by Plancenoit (U1237957) on Monday, 21st November 2005

  Try a search for 'testimony of Pasteur Le Seur'. Google will reply "Did you mean...?" Ignore that and click on the Edith Cavell site. Takes you straight to an eyewitness account of her last few hours. She did expose an escape network because she could not bring herself to lie. I didn't know this until recently.
  "Standing as I do before God and eternity, I realise patriotism is not enough. I must have no hatred or bitterness towards anyone...."
  Truly remarkable woman.

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• Message 9

  , in reply to message 8.

  Posted by PaulRyckier (U1753522) on Monday, 21st November 2005

  Re: Message 8.
  
  Plancenoit,
  
  thank you very much for the site. I read it all. Very moving as you said.
  
  Try once the second entry on the first window: the history page. There you click on the UK edith cavell site. There you click on: the story of Edith's life. Then click on: War declared.
  
  In the last paragraph they give another explanation about the confessions of Edith to the Germans.
  
  Kind regards?

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• Message 10

  , in reply to message 9.

  Posted by PaulRyckier (U1753522) on Monday, 21st November 2005

  Correction message 9: the "?" after kind regards is a typo.
  
  

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