Wars and ConflictsΜύ permalink
Maj.Gen. Stanislaw Sosabowski
This discussion has been closed.
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Message 1.Μύ
Posted by expat32 (U2025313) on Friday, 18th November 2005
Prophet, or Monty's scapegoat.
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Message 2
This posting has been hidden during moderation because it broke the in some way.
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Message 3
Posted by arnaldalmaric (U1756653) on Friday, 18th November 2005
expat,
quick reply before the boards close, hopefully Jozef will see this and will no doubt have a view.
Most British WW2 historians don't give the credit that is due to the Free Polish, I suspect because of the shabby treatment they received post WW2.
Regarding Montgomery and his "spin", please see my comments on Montgomery on DLs thread. Sosabowski, prophet yes, scapegoat, not in the considered view. At the time, possibly, indeed probably, see "spin" above. No one I know who has looked into Market Garden with 20:20 hindsight can fault any of the troops or commanders on the ground, (couple of exceptions, can't remember them off the top of my head and not enough time to look it up).
Cheers AA. -
Message 4
Posted by Piper's Lament (U2048844) on Saturday, 19th November 2005
expat32,
Something that would help bolster your case would be to cite your sources much of your post is lifted directly from:
For example, original from the above page:
"Sosabowski's dissent cost him greatly after the battle. To try and deflect blame away from their own failings, British commanders ensured that the Polish Brigade became a convenient scapegoat. Montgomery wrote to CIGS and reported that the Poles "fought very badly and the men showed no keenness to fight", and he declared that he did not want them under his command and suggested they be sent to join other Poles in Italy."
Your have cut and pasted this paragraph into your post. You have also lifted your next paragraph directly from later on the same web page.
What it would do to properly attribute would be to give your argument more credibility. Simply to cut and paste unattribited text with slight modification does less for the argument than to observe, for example, that in the biographical note at [reference above] from the "Battle of Arnhem Archive" (which can be found at ) they give this account of Sosabowski's treatment. And, for the viewpoint of his family see which has a number of resources for us to look over. (esp The main culprit seems to have been Browning whose report (which can be seen at ) was unjustifiably damning. -
Message 5
Posted by Dirk Marinus (U1648073) on Saturday, 19th November 2005
A.A
I like your mention of:
<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>
Actually were the Polish Air Force crews ever recognised for what they did during the Battle of Britain?
If so then it was very little. -
Message 6
Posted by expat32 (U2025313) on Saturday, 19th November 2005
Hi there Nobody in particular,
I have given the history board members credit for having the expertise to google Sosabowski and click. If you read the house rules, you post another website addy your message may be removed.
Cheerz. -
Message 7
Posted by Piper's Lament (U2048844) on Saturday, 19th November 2005
expat32,
1) If you read the house rules, you will discover what kind of link is not allowed:
2)If you quote verbatim from a work by somebody else, even if you cannot cite using a link, you can at least acknowledge the source, as a common courtesy to the author, and to help people get a clearer understanding of the nature and character of your source material in order that they make an informed decision on the matter. In this case you could have said that on the Battle of Arnhem Archive website they discuss General Sosabowski's role in the battle in some detail. They say x, y and z about him and it does suggest that even thought he was an abrasive character, he was hard done by, during and after the battle. I give this this and this reason for this.
3) House rules:
"If you are considering contributing anything to bbc.co.uk communities that you haven't created yourself, assume that you don't have the right to do it. It may breach someone's intellectual property rights and it breaks our Terms of Use."
4) As to Google, which one of the 21,000 documents that came up when I entered Sosabowski should I choose to recognise as the source of your post? Or even the 640 that came up when I searched on Sosabowski and Arnhem? We do not all have the time to do that. The reason that I picked up on your post was that a couple of days ago I HAD read this page, and the contents of your post seemed very familiar.
What you want to discuss is important. Indeed, I would recommend that people interested in the matter of the treatment of Poland and its nationals in the Second World War, not just by Britain, but by the Allies as a whole, do read about this case, and about why the Poles were excluded from the 1946 Victory Parade out of fear of offending Stalin Hi there Nobody in particular,
I have given the history board members credit for having the expertise to google Sosabowski and click. If you read the house rules, you post another website addy your message may be removed.
Cheerz.
Μύ -
Message 8
Posted by expat32 (U2025313) on Saturday, 19th November 2005
Hi again Nobody in particular, When I first read your initial post I was blazing mad, However...er cough...hhhaaarrruuummmmppphhhhh.... It appears I stand correctly corrected sir.
There have been recent postings alluding to an alternate history board and I presumed posting websites in general was prohibited. Thanks for that additional site you gave me, I’ll check it out. I have corresponded with General Sosabowski relatives in the past, and his treatment is an issue that has long irked me.
Cheerz. -
Message 9
Posted by Plancenoit (U1237957) on Saturday, 19th November 2005
Come on guys cool down a bit. No need for any animosity over links etc. Remember, "rules are for the guidance of the wise, and the blind obedience of fools". For what it's worth, I believe the brits sidelined the Free Polish Forces on the basis of the fact that Hitler overran Poland in less than two weeks. It could never happen here could it. Any nation that could be militarily dominated in two weeks can't be taken seriously. Could it.........????
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Message 10
Posted by expat32 (U2025313) on Saturday, 19th November 2005
Hi again,
What you want to discuss is important. Indeed, I would recommend that people interested in the matter of the treatment of Poland and its nationals in the Second World War, not just by Britain, but by the Allies as a whole,Μύ
Given the thousands of Polish immigrants granted residence in the Commonwealth countries and the United States after WW2 I’m not sure what you mean by " not just by Britain, but by the Allies as a whole" I can begin to understand the Brits after years of wartime foreigners in their presence, I’m just not sure about your mentioning the allies.
Thanks in advance. -
Message 11
Posted by expat32 (U2025313) on Saturday, 19th November 2005
For all you Google challenged History junkies out there.
ENTER Stanislaw Sosabowski
Results 1 - 100 of about 1,070 English pages for Stanislaw Sosabowski . (0.54 seconds)
Major-General Stanislaw Sosabowski, CBE
Major-General Stanislaw Sosabowski, CBE. Major-General Sosabowski's early years
in Stanislawow in south-eastern Poland were tough. ...
www.polandinexile.com/sosa.htm - 21k - Cached - Similar pages
Sosabowski Family Website
General Stanisław Sosabowski Β· Dutch Flag Versie in het Nederlandse ...
Captain Ludwik Stanisław Sosabowski Β· Family Tree Commentary Β· Book Resources ...
sosabowski.com/ - 8k - Cached - Similar pages
Sosabowski Family Website
Guestbook Β· Contact Us. General Stanisław Sosabowski. General Stanisław Sosabowski.
A Personalised CV of my grandfather Major General Stanisław Franciszek ...
sosabowski.com/generalcv.html - 22k - Cached - Similar pages
[ More results from sosabowski.com ]
Major-General Stanislaw Sosabowski
Born on the 6th May 1892, the 52 year old Stanislaw Sosabowski was a highly
experienced soldier, having first been conscripted into the 58th Infantry ...
www.arnhemarchive.org/stanislaw_sosabowski.htm - 29k - Cached - Similar pages
Major-General Stanislaw Sosabowski
Major-General Stanislaw Sosabowski.
www.arnhemarchive.org/Biog/Stanislaw_Sosabowski_1.htm - 3k - Cached - Similar pages
[ More results from www.arnhemarchive.org ]
Stanisław Sosabowski - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Stanisław Sosabowski had no choice but to remain in exile. He died in London on
September 25, 1967. In 1969 his remains were interred in the Powązki ...
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stanislaw_Sosabowski - 40k -
Cheerz
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