Wars and Conflicts聽 permalink
Radar, The Big Fib.
This discussion has been closed.
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Message 1.聽
Posted by expat32 (U2025313) on Wednesday, 16th November 2005
Hi,
I have heard repeatedly on these boards that the British invented Radar. Gentlemen gentlemen, are y'all taking credit for another of our accomplishments. Has this been repeated so often that it's taken as fact ? ...Like....dare I say it....NORAID ?
In the autumn of 1922, A. H. Taylor and L. C. Young of the Naval Research Laboratory (NRL) in the U.S.A. detected a wooden ship using continuous wave (CW) interference radar with a separated transmitting and receiving antenna....... These men were the first inventors of radar...... In June, 1930, Lawrence A. Hyland of the NRL in the U.S. detected an airplane with this type of radar. Wave-interference radar can detect the presence of an object, but it cannot determine its location or velocity. That had to await the invention of pulse radar.
Under Robert M Page, experiments with pulse radar were conducted at the NRL (U.S.) in 1934 and 1935. On April 28, 1936, the first pulse radar was demonstrated successfully at a range of 2.5 miles, but by June of that year, the range was extend to 25 miles. Pulse radar's limitation for use on ships and planes was caused by its operation at low frequencies that required large antennas. However, in June, 1936, NRL researchers invented a 200 MHz pulse radar employing a duplex radar; that is, radar with the transmitting and receiving antennas located on the radar set.On February 12, 1935, Robert Watson-Watt sent a memo of a proposed radar system to the British Air Ministry.
At the start of World War II both the United Kingdom and Nazi Germany knew of each other's ongoing efforts in their "battle of the beams". Both nations were intensely interested in the other's developments in the field, and engaged in an active campaign of espionage and false leaks about their respective equipment. But it was only in Britain that the usefulness of the system became obvious, so while the German systems had the edge technologically (operating on much shorter wavelengths) only Britain started true mass deployment of both the radars and the control systems needed to support them.
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Message 2
Posted by Mani (U1821129) on Thursday, 17th November 2005
Oh come come now expat!
You鈥檙e not trying to do the old American thing of stealing our inventions are you?
If it wasn鈥檛 so bad that you try and say that charlatan Edison invented the light bulb (He didn鈥檛, he patented it in America, it was invented some years before by Joseph Swan in the UK)
Even worse that many over the pond dare suggest that the Television was a US invention (Here鈥檚 one where most Brits are wrong, John Logie Baird invented a television of sorts, but it isn鈥檛 the same system we use now, that was invented my Marconi, Bairds system would require something similar to the blue 鈥榠mposing鈥 background people use these days on TV and cinema).
As for suggesting the Telephone is an American invention鈥 Well!!!!! I never!!!
The preposterous notion that the US invented the electronic computer, or even the transistor? In Various US encyclopaedias the electronic computer is described as a US invention. Tommy Flowers, a British Telecom engineer designed and made the first electronic computer to assist the translation of the Enigma code, the only thing is, we kept it secret from everyone, including the US at the request of Churchill, and all models of the colossus were dismantled. So although many Yanks think they were the first, they were short by about 7 years or so.
Ask a Yank who freed the slaves, 99% will say Abraham Lincoln, but not in the rest of the world wouldn鈥檛!
William Wilberforce lobbied Parliament decades before Lincoln before it was outlawed in mist of the world. I think also the Danes were the first 鈥榃estern鈥 country to outlaw slavery.
But back to the point about Radar, Sir Robert Alexander Watson-Watt designed a Radar system in 1917, somewhat before any US designers. But I feel more credit should go to Heinrich Hertz than anyone, a German, but that鈥檚 just me!!
BTW, Morning! Hope all is well in the Expat world! -
Message 3
Posted by arnaldalmaric (U1756653) on Thursday, 17th November 2005
Expat, Interesting and provocative as always.
I can almost hear the splutters of early morning tea.
To answer your question why do the British insist on claiming the invention of radar may I use an analogy? Who invented the electric light bulb?
Edison in 1879 I suspect you鈥檒l answer. So, you discount the claim of Sir Humphrey Davy who in 1800 demonstrated you could produce light using electricity and a carbon filament. You鈥檒l also discount the efforts of Sir Joeseph Wilson Swan who in 1878 demonstrated his lamps or bulbs in Newcastle, England. You鈥檒l also throw away the claims of Charles Francis Bush who in 1878 manufactured bulbs that lit streets, offices and stores in Cleveland Ohio.
You鈥檒l also discount the efforts of Lewis Howard Latimer for his improved filament in 1881, Whitney who in 1903 developed a filament that didn鈥檛 darken the bulb, or Coolidge who in 1910 developed the tungsten filament.
So, back to RADAR, was it James Clerk Maxwell who in 1864 developed the laws of radio wave reflection and equations concerning electromagnetic (e.m.) wave behaviour? Or Hertz in 1877, who demonstrated that e.m. waves travelled at the speed of light? Or Christian Hubmeyer in 1904 who built a 鈥渢elemobiloscope鈥 that could detect a ship at 3 km. Or your sources, or Watson-Watt who led the team that proved an aircraft could be detected on February 26th 1935.
The point is that Edison is credited in developing (inventing) the world first workable, practically useful light bulb (and I agree with this). So shouldn鈥檛 the point also be who is to be credited with developing (inventing) the worlds first practical, useful working RADAR system? A far more pertinent question in my view. This honour must go to the British team.
As to why it鈥檚 now called RADAR (the American term) and not Radio Detection Finding (RDF) I鈥檒l point out that for clarity of understanding during war time there needs to be a standardisation of terms, it was easier (due to numbers of personnel involved) to adopt the American (hence why the British adopted the American Phonetic Alphabet during WW2).
The defence of the British claim now rests.
Cheers, Best Wishes, AA.
mani, apologies for repeating some of your points, I鈥檝e been trying to sign onto the Boards for 65 minutes and had my post pre prepared, couldn鈥檛 be bothered altering it, sorry. 502 鈥 Service not available, new improved technology, improved DNA servers, my a**e. Absolute garbage.
Harumph, AA. -
Message 4
Posted by PaulRyckier (U1753522) on Thursday, 17th November 2005
Re: Message 3.
Arnald,
you are right "my youngen".
I mean about the DNA(frustrated smile). DNA? Has that something to do with "desoxyribonulcelic acid" or something like that (broad smile)?
Kind regards,
Paul. -
Message 5
Posted by jwnh (U2437047) on Thursday, 17th November 2005
Actually Expat, if you do your research, you will discover that the technology of what we have come to call radar was demonstrated and patented by Christian Huelsmeyer in 1904, in Germany....sorry.
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Message 6
Posted by ColBloodnock (U2513601) on Thursday, 17th November 2005
Never mind that! who invented the exploding mens shirtails!!?? i was sitting down with m'lady when BOOM WAP KARBOOM, it nearly blew m'lady out the victorian windows bless her, those naughty Germans i'll bet. damn you Herr Hitler, damn you all to hell!
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Message 7
Posted by expat32 (U2025313) on Thursday, 17th November 2005
Hiya ColBloodnock,
That wasn't Hitler ya dummy, it was a conspiracy by the pro axis Heinz 57 family. Quit feeding your ole lady beans on toast. -
Message 8
Posted by ColBloodnock (U2513601) on Thursday, 17th November 2005
WHAT!!! oh you naughty expat you, it was the Germans you see. there was i basking in the baking sun of the lybian desert of 1942, when all of a sudden....KAPOOSH! they said i was stealing his watch but it was mine you see, i bought it off a charwahla in Bombay 1931.
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Message 9
Posted by expat32 (U2025313) on Thursday, 17th November 2005
Actually Expat, if you do your research, you will discover that the technology of what we have come to call radar was demonstrated and patented by Christian Huelsmeyer in 1904, in Germany....sorry.聽
Actually m'dere,
If you quit muching on that Cod for a few minutes you may agree with Mani and I it was Hertz.
@)-)-)-)--------------- -
Message 10
Posted by expat32 (U2025313) on Thursday, 17th November 2005
ColBloodnock,
You have obviously lain much too long in the midday Libian sun. THAT was no charwahla, and that was not his WRIST !!!!!
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Message 11
Posted by ColBloodnock (U2513601) on Thursday, 17th November 2005
YE GADS, I MUST WRITE TO MIMSIE RIGHT AWAY AND FIND THIS FENDISH DOCTOR GRYPIPE THYNE
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Message 12
Posted by OUNUPA (U2078829) on Thursday, 17th November 2005
Expat,we haven't won the war yet!
Nazi scientists set to have the last laugh!
War Ministry files recently made public under the Freedom of Information Act reveal a shoking legacy left by Hitler which could yet reverse the result of the WWII,yeah!
Fuhrer and his evil Nazi cohorts left a time bomb
ticking underneath England way after their deaths.AN EVOLUTIONARY time bomb which is now set
to explode! -
Message 13
Posted by OUNUPA (U2078829) on Thursday, 17th November 2005
Well,listen
Hitler was barely out of napples when that Darwin
first published his book in which he explained how man evolved from fish...hmm,who crowled out of the sea and turned into those monkeys...
Although previously it had been thought that man evolved from a snake and an apple in the Garden in Eden.
Hitler's top Nazi scientists invented a bomb which would actually cause evolution to go backwards,yes.
The top secret device was thought to have been destroyed during the allied invasion of Berlin.
However, papers just published reveal that the bomb may have been flown to Britain by Rudolf Hess and hidden in a field near Ipswich...
If the worst fears are confirmed ,within FIVE YEARS everyone in Britain will have turned into monkey....Such things.... -
Message 14
Posted by jwnh (U2437047) on Thursday, 17th November 2005
Why oh why, expat, do you have to descend to stupid insults?
The bloke I am referring to made the theory work, and patented it...just admit you are wrong, or is that constitutionally impossible? -
Message 15
Posted by jwnh (U2437047) on Thursday, 17th November 2005
Besides, your position has changed since your first post!!
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Message 16
Posted by expat32 (U2025313) on Thursday, 17th November 2005
I know he did hun. Can't you see this thread has a humorous streak running thru it? I did not mean to insult you about the Cod. If I really offended you please forgive me.
Cheers. -
Message 17
Posted by DaveMBA (U1360771) on Thursday, 17th November 2005
Clarkson hit the nail on the head, when he concluded that the US contribution to invention was clotted cream.
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Message 18
Posted by Mani (U1821129) on Friday, 18th November 2005
Clarkson hit the nail on the head, when he concluded that the US contribution to invention was clotted cream.鈥 I thought the title for that one went to either Devon or Cornwall 鈥 A stand of between the Celts and Saxons on that! The Italians also have a pretty good claim?
They invented the Blues, for me, that鈥檚 enough. No Son House; no Robert Johnson, no Robert Johnson, no Howling Wolf, Jimmy Rodgers, Muddy Waters, John Lee Hooker, Albert King. None of those blokes, no Rolling stones, Yard Birds, Clapton, John Mayal, Led Zep etc, then where would we be? Listening to even more Boy bands!
To be fair Dave, much like that Japanese in the mid 20th century, they may not have been the first to invent many things, but they did improve on them. Plus, I think, everything is more global these days. Yes, you have US companies inventing, things, or improving current designs, but the people working for those companies are from all over the world, they sell all over the world.
The nationalistic pride over who invented what dissolved into the ether some time ago (IMO). -
Message 19
Posted by OUNUPA (U2078829) on Friday, 18th November 2005
Expat,they point to a catalogue of crucial evidence which they claim proves their theory
beyond all reasonable doubt :
1.In the ten years immediately after the war banana sales in Britain escalated ,from
virtually nil in 1945,to lots in 1955.Today ,UK banana sales are at an all-time record high!
2.Over the 60 year period since the cessation of hostilities table manners in Britain have declined gradually to the point where virtually nobody uses a knife and fork properly anymore.
3.In Britain men's bodies are showing greater signs of hair growth.
Sean Connory and Peter Sellers for example,both having hairy backs.
I believe Hitler planned to conquer Britain by devolutionising Britts all into monkeys so that
he could march into London unopposed.He then planned to offer 'em the secret of MAN"S
RED FIRE,in return for the keys to Buckingham Palace .
It was a brilliant plan ,and if it had worked Hitler would have been crowned King of England.
Hitler fights on from the grave! -
Message 20
Posted by DL (U1683040) on Friday, 18th November 2005
Expat,they point to a catalogue of crucial evidence which they claim proves their theory
beyond all reasonable doubt :
1.In the ten years immediately after the war banana sales in Britain escalated ,from
virtually nil in 1945,to lots in 1955.Today ,UK banana sales are at an all-time record high!
2.Over the 60 year period since the cessation of hostilities table manners in Britain have declined gradually to the point where virtually nobody uses a knife and fork properly anymore.
3.In Britain men's bodies are showing greater signs of hair growth.
Sean Connory and Peter Sellers for example,both having hairy backs.
I believe Hitler planned to conquer Britain by devolutionising Britts all into monkeys so that
he could march into London unopposed.He then planned to offer 'em the secret of MAN"S
RED FIRE,in return for the keys to Buckingham Palace .
It was a brilliant plan ,and if it had worked Hitler would have been crowned King of England.
Hitler fights on from the grave!聽
meanwhile, on planet earth.........
On a more serious note,
I think you may find that the Brits can happily claim the world's first integrated radar air defence system.
Sorry, can't really add any more, can't get Hitler's reverse evolution bomb out of my head!
It sounds like a Doctor Who episode!!!!!
cheers -
Message 21
Posted by Plancenoit (U1237957) on Friday, 18th November 2005
I'm really not sure the discussion on UK banana sales during the war actually proves anything, other than the fact we were hopelessly ill equipped and ill prepared. The near destruction of the Luftwaffe by 'the few' in their Spitfires, after the recent invention of the Typhoon tea bag, is an rare example of things that actually went well. We have to consider the awful scenario that if we hadn't controlled the skies over the Channel, an invasion would have launched without hesitation once it became known to German intelligence that the Royal Navy had no bananas. What use is a Destroyer without a multi purpose banana?? Total collapse of morale would have been unavoidable. Incidentally, with reference to the Monkey theory, I believe the gun crews on Navy ships are called 'Powder Monkeys' so you may have a point. I have to go and visit uncle Wolfgang at the zoo so I'll catch you later. Toodle pip for now.
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Message 22
Posted by expat32 (U2025313) on Friday, 18th November 2005
Clarkson hit the nail on the head, when he concluded that the US contribution to invention was clotted cream. 聽
Good ole Dave,
What would a Yanks morning coffee be without Dave's burning love and respect for all things Yanqui. -
Message 23
Posted by DL (U1683040) on Friday, 18th November 2005
Hey what do you expect Expat, from a nation that has the delightful nickname of "The Great Satan", well, in the parts of the world that are full of peace and tolerance anyway!!!!
he he he
DL -
Message 24
Posted by OUNUPA (U2078829) on Friday, 18th November 2005
DL,I realy can't see how a fish is going to crawl out of the sea and spend hundreds of years turning into a monkey without being eaten by a seagull. -
Message 25
Posted by DL (U1683040) on Friday, 18th November 2005
Did the Nazis genetically engineer seagulls too?
Yeah they must have, they keep doing a dump on my car!!!!
Fascist bird life, damn them!!! -
Message 26
Posted by Plancenoit (U1237957) on Friday, 18th November 2005
Absolute nonsense. Impossible. Birds were NOT engineered by the Nazis, or they would not fly south for winter. They'd simply gather on the Polish border and sit around campfires drinking Ersatz coffee and singing 'Lili Merlin'.
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Message 27
Posted by DL (U1683040) on Friday, 18th November 2005
I reckon it's more likely that they engineered pigeons! Or maybe magpies, they're pretty evil!
Or perhaps the magpies were a countermeasure that backfired? -
Message 28
Posted by OUNUPA (U2078829) on Friday, 18th November 2005
.....and those species like dolphins and ants..
Dolphins can already talk,and if they were to evolve out of the sea we could have our hands full....Ants are also ones to watch.If they got bigger and discovered fire and the wheel they could be running the show,DL,within a few years..,if not months even..
They think it's all over...But it isn't! -
Message 29
Posted by Plancenoit (U1237957) on Friday, 18th November 2005
Now you're talking. Magpies have been known to fly in Swastika formation and they pay particular attention to Coventry. On each wing they have a very unique feather setup, and an eliptical 'bastard' feather which is an obvious duplication of the unique Spitfire wing, allowing surprising drag and lift and incredible manouverability. There was a rumour that Werner Von Braun kept a couple of dozen at Peenemunde for aeronautical research purposes, but on the approach of Allied forces, four and twenty of them were baked in a pie to hide the evidence.....I rest my case.
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Message 30
Posted by Plancenoit (U1237957) on Friday, 18th November 2005
A Dolphin with a Kalashnikov??? Come on please!!! this is pure fantasy and Dolphins are probably mans best friend. Didnt they carry magnetic mines under enemy ships?? I like Dolphins but I still can't eat a whole one.
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Message 31
Posted by DL (U1683040) on Friday, 18th November 2005
Nah,
Dolphins are way too intelligent to fall for Nazi racial theory! As far as they are concerned, we're all equally rubbish at swimming!
Now, magpies in swastika formation, that is believable. Have you ever noticed, that whenever you see one, there's always another three hiding in the treetops? It's inbred tactics! The three you can't see are waiting to provide cover fire for the one who is out in the open (like velociraptors in Jurassic Park!!!)
Pure evil....
DL -
Message 32
Posted by OUNUPA (U2078829) on Saturday, 19th November 2005
WEEKEND!!!!!!
IT WAS ONE GIANT LEAP FOR MONKEYKIND!!!!!!!!!
'One small step' was how American space man Neil Armstrong described first setting foot on the Moon.
But now ,as America is going to celebrate the 36 th anniversary of those mortal words,one other man is accusing the man who spoke 'em of being LIAR and a CHEAT.
Indeed those history books may have to be rewritten.
For according to a man I met in pub,it was a MONKEY who had already became the first man on the Moon,two years earlier
The man ,who preffered not to be named,said that the monkey was one of several animals
the RUSSIANS had launched on experimental space flights during the sixties.Previously it was assumed they had all died in space,yeah,but unknown to the Russians several monkeys managed to successfully land their Saturn Five rockets on the Moon.
And one monkey even managed to return to the Earth to get some bananas.
However the monkey's rocket crash landed in the man's back garden,and the space monkey
has been living in his garden shed ever since !!! -
Message 33
Posted by Plancenoit (U1237957) on Saturday, 19th November 2005
Then, if the Monkey and evolution theories are correct, can I now claim that the Brits were first on the moon?? If the moon IS made of cheese then it must be a mild west country cheddar. Can anyone think of any notable American cheeses?? (Di Caprio's acting not permitted) and how did we get from RADAR to Moon Cheese in such a short space of time?.
P.S Mildred, your skirts in the wash. -
Message 34
Posted by OUNUPA (U2078829) on Saturday, 19th November 2005
Hmm...The Brits were the first on The Dark Side of The Moon .It was a BEST SELLING ALBUM by Pink Floyd,Plancenoit!...
According to the man the monkey is now prepared
to go public and tell us its story for the first time.
Hmm..However after leaving the pub and wandering around for several moments he told me he'd forgotten where he lived.
Later he became unsteady on his feet and sat down on a grass verge where he attemted to offer me a drink from a large bottle of cider wrapped in brown paper....He then fell asleeppppppp...... -
Message 35
Posted by The Researcher Strikes Back (U2183402) on Saturday, 19th November 2005
For the type of cheese that the moon is made of go to and zoom right in. It looks like one of those Swiss cheeses with holes in it. Then, if the Monkey and evolution theories are correct, can I now claim that the Brits were first on the moon?? If the moon IS made of cheese then it must be a mild west country cheddar. Can anyone think of any notable American cheeses?? (Di Caprio's acting not permitted) and how did we get from RADAR to Moon Cheese in such a short space of time?.
P.S Mildred, your skirts in the wash.聽 -
Message 36
Posted by OUNUPA (U2078829) on Saturday, 19th November 2005
To Seagulls!
Fly UPSIDE DOWN next time you're
over my town.
I can assure you it isn't even worth sh...ing on. -
Message 37
Posted by Plancenoit (U1237957) on Saturday, 19th November 2005
I heard a rumour that ducks fly backwards in winter so they don't get snow in their eyes. Its quite clever when you think about it. It also confirms that ducks invented RADAR. Imagine 4,000 ducks knocking at your door at 2am asking for directions to Algiers. Quite irritating I should imagine, not to mention the mess on your gooseberry bush. And Bats!! Well, they are 'King' when it comes to RADAR. It's a bit of a wild theory, but if it had been possible to fit 20mm cannon to the wings of bats which could recognise and automatically open fire on enemy aircraft, then the night raids over London would have been a non starter. Back to the drawing board for Harry Hun. On a slightly serious note (God forbid), didn't the Brits have some crazy plan involving exploding Pigeons during the war?? Surely they'd just fly home and burn your house down. Own goal.
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Message 38
Posted by ElHistoryMan (U2541213) on Saturday, 19th November 2005
I understand that the English did not create radar BUT we were the first to use Radar in a war situation during the Battle of Britain.
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Message 39
Posted by OUNUPA (U2078829) on Sunday, 20th November 2005
Hitler Comes Clean!
Shamed former Nazi leader Adolf Hitler spoke publicly
for the first time last night about WWII.
Speaking live on X.Z's 'Today Russian Big Show'
the former Fuhrer admitted that his regime was
a BAD THING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
It was Hitler's first public appearance since the war ended in 1945.He looked uncomfortable and shifted awkwardly in his chair as he faced up to the inevitable questions about mass genocide,Himmler,Stalin,Beriya.
IN ZISS LIFE ZERE ARE BAT SINGS UNT ZERE ARE GOOT SINGS.
VOT I DID VOZ A BAT SING,UNT I ACCEPT ZAT
he told the popular chat show host.
His words were greeted with rapturous applause by the Russian audience.Indeed Russian public appear to have taken the Nazi dictator to their hearts.
Early indications are that Hitler 's popularity is hiken up to the heavens.
Already Russian film producers have made several hundred films about the Great Patriotic War -
Message 40
Posted by Plancenoit (U1237957) on Monday, 21st November 2005
OK, I surrender. You win.
. Have this friendly Pigeon as a token of my esteem.......... -
Message 41
Posted by expat32 (U2025313) on Monday, 21st November 2005
I knew he was French.
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Message 42
Posted by OUNUPA (U2078829) on Monday, 21st November 2005
Plancenoit...
but I've launched my own war against Terrorism.
Those terrorists have gone TOOOO FAAAAR!
First it was glass in pet food,then fuse wire in baby food.And now while eating my cornflakes this morning I almost choked on a small plastic DINOSAURRRRRR!
What will these callous people think of next?
Well ,here are my owm Pigeons to you -
Message 43
Posted by Plancenoit (U1237957) on Monday, 21st November 2005
YOU SWINES........that was a trap and I walked right into it. Boldly and without hesitation. The path of my life is strewn with cow pats from the Devil's own satanic herd.
-
Message 44
Posted by DL (U1683040) on Monday, 21st November 2005
YOU SWINES........that was a trap and I walked right into it. Boldly and without hesitation. The path of my life is strewn with cow pats from the Devil's own satanic herd. 聽
Well, Plancenoit,
if the worst happens, just stick two pencils up your nose, put your underpants on your head, and say "Wibble".
They'll think you've gone mad, and send you home to Blighty!
Well, I'm off to Hartlepool to buy some exploding trousers, my old man's a mushroom gibber gibber....
Cheers
DL
Can't beat Blackadder.... -
Message 45
Posted by Plancenoit (U1237957) on Monday, 21st November 2005
Simply the best...........
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Message 46
Posted by OUNUPA (U2078829) on Monday, 21st November 2005
....is a very song,yeah!
But THEY ARE AT IT AGAIN!...
SMASH! BANG!WALLOP!.... -
Message 47
Posted by DL (U1683040) on Monday, 21st November 2005
Got to add,
My all-time favourite....
"So what do I do if I step on a mine?"
"Standard procedure is to jump 100 feet into the air, and scatter yourself over a wide area..."
Wubble.
DL
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