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Abandoning the trenches in WW1

• Message 1.Β 

  Posted by Miranda (U2203130) on Monday, 14th November 2005

  Hello everyone, this is my first post on the board, and I have a question! I've been reading 'All Quiet on the Western Front' and Susan Hill's 'Strange Meeting' (another novel set in WW1) which has set my mind revolving around WW1 and trench warfare in particular.
  
  Suppose the Allies had abandoned their trenches and retreated a number of miles, or even tens of miles, forward of the German lines, and not then retrenched, but deployed themselves in some other way. What might have happened then?
  
  There are a number of interesting ways to answer this question it seems to me, e.g.
  
  If you were in change of the British and/or German army, what would you then have done, taking my simple premise as a starting point?
  
  Taking as read, the idea that the Allied forces acted as I have suggested, what do you think might really have happened under those circumstances, knowing what you know of the tactics available and personalities involved?
  
  Was this ever actually suggested at the time and what became of the idea?
  
  This may be an awfully naive question, yet it seems to me that it is not, since other wars have not become bogged down in trench warfare.
  
  I will be very interested to read any replies!
  

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  Posted by DL (U1683040) on Monday, 14th November 2005

  Hi Miranda,
  
  And welcome to the boards!
  An interesting idea, since the Germans did pretty much as you suggested. They withdrew to the "Hindenburg Line" I think at the beginning of 1917 (but may be incorrect as I am working off memory, so the date may be out). They withdrew under a blanket of secrecy, and if I remember correctly, the British and French were only aware of what they were up to after they had gone.
  
  They withdrew to a massively improved version of the Western Front, with masses of barbed wire, pillboxes, and a huge, defence in depth position where of course, they could pick the best terrain possible for their trenches. As they withdrew, they carried out a scorched earth policy, destroying everything that could have been useful to the allies, and just basically making a real mess for them. When the allies advanced to the new line, they were in a much worse position, having no knowledge of the area they moved into, and little in resources on the ground. In addition to that, they had to build a new trench system from scratch, all the while facing the massive defences of the Hindenburg Line. In my opinion this was a huge mistake on the part of the Germans. Their ideal opportunity to break through the allied line was just after they withdrew. As the allies had little in the way of defence, a concentrated attack could possibly have broken through, as the allied lines struggled to reform in front of the massive new German defences.
  
  For the allies, since most of the trench systems of the Western Front were on French soil, the idea of giving up ground, for whatever tactical reason was unthinkable to them, and would have been political suicide to any French commander who carried out such an action. They were convinced that the Germans should be expelled from the "sacred soil" of France, and since the French were in overall command of the front, there was no option for the British to do the same.
  
  Cheers
  DL

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  Posted by Miranda (U2203130) on Monday, 14th November 2005

  Hi DL
  
  Thank you so much for such a fast response! I had no idea that this had actually happened. In fact in posting the question, I was rather thinking in terms of what you suggested the Germans *should* have done, albeit from the British side, so I'd agree with you there.
  
  The Germans' actions really seem senseless to me - why did they act in that way? Were they simply hoping to carry on the same war of attrition, but from a position of strength, albeit having retreated to do so?

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  Posted by Mike Alexander (U1706714) on Monday, 14th November 2005

  I think the Germans had a more strategic approach than the British, in the sense that the British operated under the constant aggression theory - evident in their determination to control 'no-man's land' through night patrols and raids etc.
  
  Even before the Germans retreated to the Hindenburg line, their philosophy was often one of holding the line rather than advancing. This is shown in the comparative sophistication of the German deep dugouts and concrete reinforced positions on the Somme compared to the British trenches, which were always very 'temporary' in feel, fitting with the British philosophy of constant advance.
  
  The Germans very much pioneered the idea of 'defence in depth' (it became rapidly apparent that putting all your resources in frontline trench areas made them an easy target for enemy artillery) - and, in a sense, the Hindenburg line was an extension of that philosophy.
  
  It still seems an odd thing to do though, when you consider that in early 1918 they would be staging a huge offensive, attempting to get to Paris before US troops could be fully mobilised (though perhaps this wasn't yet scheduled at the time of the withdrawal - the collapse of the Eastern Front in 1917 would provide the extra resources necessary to this tactic).

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  Posted by DL (U1683040) on Monday, 14th November 2005

  Hi Miranda,
  
  Well, to the Germans it made a lot of sense. It gave them a massive military advantage on a local level, since they could position their defences in the most effective location, and in depth, without fear of being shot at while they were being built. They also got to shorten the trench lines (i think by 60 miles), and so free up lots of troops (they had a serious manpower shortage due to Verdun, the Somme and all the other bloodbaths in the war). Also, it meant that the allies were in a seriously worse position than before. At that time (before the entry of the US into the war), they were probably hoping that the either stalemate would lead to a ceasefire, and an end to the war or that their U-boat attacks would starve Britain into seeking a ceasefire.
  They were no longer interested in attacking in the West, and were looking at knocking the Russians out of the war permanently (as happened later in the year). This changed with the entry of the US later in 1917, and forced the Germans to go for a "make or break" attack before the Americans could send large numbers of troops to the allied side. They almose succeeded in spring 1918, but were held back, and the war was essentially lost.

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  Posted by TonyG (U1830405) on Monday, 14th November 2005

  I agree with the posts above, but I would add that trench warfare was inevitable. Withdrawing and standing in open country was not an option given the lethal effects of machine guns and artillery. The troops had to take cover and trenches were the obvious solution. Tanks and aircraft had not developed to the level where they could defeat trench warfare, so there really was not much alternative.
  
  In WW2, the development of armoured warfare made it a more fluid conflict and troops tended to use separate foxholes which provided mutual support rather than long fixed trenches, and of course, minefields were a common defensive ploy in WW2.
  
  
  

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  Posted by Miranda (U2203130) on Tuesday, 15th November 2005

  Many thanks to everyone for your fascinating responses! I'm glad I asked the question on this Board, it's been really illuminating. You are such a knowledgeable lot!

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