Wars and ConflictsÌý permalink
Trafalgar Day
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Message 1.Ìý
Posted by Tim of Acleah (U1736633) on Friday, 21st October 2005
To mark the entente cordiale, letting bygones be bygones and to commemorate Trafalgar day listed below are 20 famous victories over the French in chronological order.
1. 1216 Naval victory off Dover English fleet lead by Hubert de Burgh defeats the French invasion fleet attempting to put Louis, son of Philip king of France on the throne.
2. 1340 Sluys The English fleet, due to its use of the longbow, inflicts a catastrophic defeat on the French navy on a scale unparalleled until modern times. 190 out of 213 French ships are taken.
3. 1346 Crecy Multiple French cavalry attacks fail to break the English army lead by Edward III. French losses include 1,542 knights and squires. English losses are light.
4. 1356 Poitiers Due to a brilliant manoeuvre Edward, the Black Prince with 4,000 men defeats a 20,000 strong French army capturing the French king.
5. 1415 Agincourt ‘We few, we happy few, we band of brothers; for he today who sheds his blood with me shall be my brother’
6. 1424 Verneuil John, Duke of Bedford defeats a combined French Scottish army.
7. 1429 Battle of the Herrings Last significant English victory of the 100 years war.
8. 1692 Cape Le Hogue A combined Anglo-Dutch fleet defeats the French Navy putting an end to the threat of a French invasion. Queen Mary II opens royal palaces as hospitals for wounded sailors.
9. 1704 Blenheim A combined Allied and Imperial army under the command of the Duke of Marlborough decisively defeat the Franco-Bavarian army of Louis XIV preventing French domination of Europe.
10. 1706 Ramillies Brilliant victory of the allied army under the control of the Duke of Marlborough. British forces play a major part in the victory.
11. 1759 Minden British and Hanoverian infantry isolated in the centre of the allied army defeat massed French cavalry charges with steady musket fire.
12. 1759 Quebec Controlled volleys of British Musket fire destroy the French army leading to the control of Canada. General Wolfe, the British commander, is mortally wounded.
13. 1759 Quiberon Bay The Royal Navy commanded by Admiral Hawke defeat the French navy ensuring British control of the seas for the rest of the Seven Years War.
14. 1782 Isle of Saints At the end of the American War of Independence the Royal Navy under Rodney defeat the French Navy restoring British naval supremacy.
15. 1794 Glorious 1st June Howe defeats the Revolutionary French Navy in the Atlantic.
16. 1798 The Nile Nelson destroys the French Mediterranean fleet so dooming the French invasion of Egypt.
17. 1805 Trafalgar Nelson defeats the combined French and Spanish fleets ending Napoleons dreams of invading Britain and imposing French cuisine on us.
18. 1812 Salamanca ‘Wellington’s masterpiece’ a Brilliant attack by the British and Portuguese army defeats the French in the peninsula.
19. 1813 Vitoria Wellington’s defeat of the French army leads to their loss of control of Spain.
20. 1815 Waterloo An allied army commanded by Wellington and a Prussian army under Blucher defeat Napoleon. The last battle between Britain and France. -
Message 2
Posted by TonyG (U1830405) on Friday, 21st October 2005
As a Briton, I am an admirer of British military exploits, but the Trafalgar business does seem to be rubbing our allies' noses in it a bit, doesn't it? Mind you, the recent "Red Fleet vs Blue Fleet" recreation was so PC it was silly.
I suppose the French, as the current inhabitants of Normandy, could always celebrate the aninversary of Hastings in 1066. We wouldn't get upset at that, would we?
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Message 3
Posted by Stepney Boy (U1760040) on Friday, 21st October 2005
Nothing that a tot of rum or several would not cure
Aye Ready Aye
Spike As a Briton, I am an admirer of British military exploits, but the Trafalgar business does seem to be rubbing our allies' noses in it a bit, doesn't it? Mind you, the recent "Red Fleet vs Blue Fleet" recreation was so PC it was silly.
I suppose the French, as the current inhabitants of Normandy, could always celebrate the aninversary of Hastings in 1066. We wouldn't get upset at that, would we?
Ìý -
Message 4
Posted by Idamante (U1894562) on Sunday, 23rd October 2005
The only problem with Trafalgar is that we were fighting on the wrong side.
Defending the privileges of the British upper classes, now there's a noble cause for you... -
Message 5
Posted by Stepney Boy (U1760040) on Sunday, 23rd October 2005
Hi Gaiseric,
Fair point but you could also argue that the french and the spanish were fighting to improve the lot of their 'Upper' classes.
Regards
Spike The only problem with Trafalgar is that we were fighting on the wrong side.
Defending the privileges of the British upper classes, now there's a noble cause for you...Ìý -
Message 6
Posted by Tim of Acleah (U1736633) on Monday, 24th October 2005
As a Briton, I am an admirer of British military exploits, but the Trafalgar business does seem to be rubbing our allies' noses in it a bit, doesn't it? Mind you, the recent "Red Fleet vs Blue Fleet" recreation was so PC it was silly.
I suppose the French, as the current inhabitants of Normandy, could always celebrate the aninversary of Hastings in 1066. We wouldn't get upset at that, would we?
Ìý
In 1966, the 900th anniversary de Gaulle did try to turn it into a celebration of a 'French' victory.
We also made a lot of the 900th anniversary including issuing a set of commemorative stamps. -
Message 7
Posted by TonyG (U1830405) on Monday, 24th October 2005
God, yes. I forgot about the stamps. I do remember them. I didn't know about De Gaulle's attempts to celebrate it, though.
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Message 8
Posted by countvillars (U2316644) on Tuesday, 25th October 2005
Don't worry, there are enough French vitories over the English to commemorate the next years
What about
1) ALMANSA (April 1707)
2) Brihuega (dec. 1710)
3) Malplaquet (sept. 1709) :
the British "victory" of with the French Marschal Villars said to Louis XIV:
"Majesté, If only God could give us an other defeat like this, our enemies would be destroyed".
The French lost between 10.000 and 12.000 men,
the allies 22.000. -
Message 9
Posted by Tim of Acleah (U1736633) on Thursday, 27th October 2005
Don't worry, there are enough French vitories over the English to commemorate the next years
What about
1) ALMANSA (April 1707)
2) Brihuega (dec. 1710)
3) Malplaquet (sept. 1709) :
the British "victory" of with the French Marschal Villars said to Louis XIV:
"Majesté, If only God could give us an other defeat like this, our enemies would be destroyed".
The French lost between 10.000 and 12.000 men,
the allies 22.000.
Ìý
I am reminded of the French threat to rename Gare du Nord as Fontigney (so what).
Of those only three I have only heard of Malplaquet and to misquote the Anglo-saxon chronicle. the allies held the field of slaughter. The French fought well for once but they still lost.
However, 1706 is Ramillies a crushing victory over the French and then we get into an unbroken run of peninsula British victories over the French even if a couple amazingly appear on the Arc de Triumph as claimed French victories! Not to mention Oordinaarde (spelling probably wrong)
Were the other two in the you mention in Spain during the War of Spanish succession? -
Message 10
Posted by wargamewarwick (U2309376) on Thursday, 27th October 2005
And of course the rest! Wellington alone had 14 successful battles with the French worthy of battle honours for the regiments concerned (+sieges).
However never mind all the battles, let us not forget the old saying. "We have fought many a good war with the French, unfortunately the only two we came close to losing they were on our side!". -
Message 11
Posted by countvillars (U2316644) on Thursday, 27th October 2005
Exact. The British campaign in Spain during the War of Spanish succession was a failure.
Yes, Gibraltar and Minorca were captured, but the war in the peninsula was lost and most of the British troops there were made prisoners.
The French candidate for the Spanish Trone won,
and was made king Philip V of Spain .
Apparently, the French fought well more then just once. Don't forget that the French won practicly every battle they fought against king William of Orange in the last quarter of the 17 th century. But I don't think the battles of Fleurus, Steenkerque, Seneffe, Cassel, Neerwinden(Landen) and Leuze are very well know in Britain . They are in France.
Marchal Luxembourg was called "le tapissier de Nôtre Dame" from the number of captured colours that he sent to the cathedral. -
Message 12
Posted by wargamewarwick (U2309376) on Friday, 28th October 2005
The Duc de Luxembourg was indeed a great commander (possibly one of the best of all time). The battle of Landen/Neerwinden was a crushing defeat for William III (contributing 82 Colours to the collection Nôtre Dame on that day alone). William's lack of numbers 50,000 against 80,000, should have been compensated for by his excellent position, but French skill and determination did win the day. After Steinkirk I'm suprised William still thought he could command a field army!
However these set backs did ensure the British people (always reluctant to fund the military) had an army equipped and ready for another all time great commander John Churchill, 1st Duke of Marlborough just a few years later. -
Message 13
Posted by Tim of Acleah (U1736633) on Friday, 28th October 2005
Exact. The British campaign in Spain during the War of Spanish succession was a failure.
Yes, Gibraltar and Minorca were captured, but the war in the peninsula was lost and most of the British troops there were made prisoners.
The French candidate for the Spanish Trone won,
and was made king Philip V of Spain .
Apparently, the French fought well more then just once. Don't forget that the French won practicly every battle they fought against king William of Orange in the last quarter of the 17 th century. But I don't think the battles of Fleurus, Steenkerque, Seneffe, Cassel, Neerwinden(Landen) and Leuze are very well know in Britain . They are in France.
Marchal Luxembourg was called "le tapissier de Nôtre Dame" from the number of captured colours that he sent to the cathedral.Ìý
The fact that GB lost the campaign in Spain did not affect them wining the war. France had the possibility of not only controliing Europe but of Franch become the dominant world language. The War of spanish Succession ended up with French domination foiled and GB controlling the waves. This resulting in the subsequent wars in the viryual complete loss of the French empire by 1815, subsequently thay did create a new empire and avoided war with GB. But the world language is English not French which it could have been.
Louis XIV big mistake was not to prevent William of Orange not gaining control of GB. -
Message 14
Posted by countvillars (U2316644) on Friday, 28th October 2005
I do not agree that France was finished as an empire in 1815. In 1830 they conquered Algiers, and in the following years they conquered almost half of Africa and Indochina.
I agree the British empire was bigger, but by 1900 the French empire was the second biggest in the world.
To be honest, I think it's more thanks to the Americans that the world language is English.
Today people speak English in places like Slovenia, Thailand, Mexico and Senegal, which have never belonged to the empire.
My point is just this : I do not understand the British feelings of superiority towards the French. France has always been a formidable adversary.
Maybe the British DID win a few more battles and wars,
but their defeats are sometimes suitably forgotten.
France has the disadvantage of being an open, continental country. Britain has the advantage of being an island AND of the fact that absolutism and dictatorship never established itself. -
Message 15
Posted by skivingdunc (U1722630) on Wednesday, 9th November 2005
What's the difference between the French, and toast?
You can make soldiers out of toast... -
Message 16
Posted by Tim of Acleah (U1736633) on Friday, 11th November 2005
Count Villars
I did not say that the French Empire was finished in 1815 but the original empire had been destroyed by the British and they had to recreate a new empire.
I agree that the fact that the USA speaks English is the main driver behind English being the World language.
I have no feeling of superiority towards the French or any other peoples and I agree that the French were a fomidiable adversary. Obviously British History is entirely shaped by being an island which is why London is probably the capital that can most the longest time period since it was last occupied by hostile forces.
And we do remember our defeats, Hastings and Bannockburn to name but two.
I am mainly on hte smartgroups website these days, hence the delay in replying.
I do not agree that France was finished as an empire in 1815. In 1830 they conquered Algiers, and in the following years they conquered almost half of Africa and Indochina.
I agree the British empire was bigger, but by 1900 the French empire was the second biggest in the world.
To be honest, I think it's more thanks to the Americans that the world language is English.
Today people speak English in places like Slovenia, Thailand, Mexico and Senegal, which have never belonged to the empire.
My point is just this : I do not understand the British feelings of superiority towards the French. France has always been a formidable adversary.
Maybe the British DID win a few more battles and wars,
but their defeats are sometimes suitably forgotten.
France has the disadvantage of being an open, continental country. Britain has the advantage of being an island AND of the fact that absolutism and dictatorship never established itself.
Ìý
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