Βι¶ΉΤΌΕΔ

Wars and ConflictsΜύ permalink

Black Hawk Down Casualties

• Message 1.Μύ

  Posted by Sabre-Wulf (U2142937) on Monday, 17th October 2005

  I was watching the film again yesterday, and was surprised to see that of the 19 American casualties 10 were Sergeants. Is this indicative of the make up of the Rangers and Delta as units, ie a high level of NCOs, or does it say more about the role on the battlefield played by this rank?
  
  

  Link to this forum: Black Hawk Down Casualties

  Report message1

• Message 2

  , in reply to message 1.

  Posted by expat32 (U2025313) on Tuesday, 18th October 2005

  Hi Sabre Wulf, The United States Army has an Up or OUT policy. In other words if you are not selected for promotion in a given length of service you are discharged. The Delta Force is drawn from volunteers that mostly come from other elite units. Competition is fierce. As a result by the time a guy is qualified for Delta he has been in the army for several years, and has progressed up thru the ranks. The actual breakdown is determined by the mission. To give you an idea however I have downloaded a set up for a Special Forces (Green Berets) A Team. Hope this helps.
  
  MODERATOR : The following does not infringe any copywrite laws and is PUBLIC DOMAIN information. Thanks.
  
  A captain leads the 12-man team. Second in command is a warrant officer. Two noncommissioned officers, or NCOs, trained in each of the five SF functional areas: weapons, engineer, medical, communications, and operations and intelligence comprise the remainder of the team. All team members are SF qualified and cross-trained in different skills, as well as being multi-lingual.
  
  SPECIAL FORCES OFFICER (COMMANDER) (18A)
  Each ODA needs a team leader on missions. The 18A is a Commander (Captain) responsible for mission organization, outfitting the team and debriefing the mission objectives.
  WARRANT OFFICER/ASSISTANT DETACHMENT COMMANDER (180A)
  To back up the 18A leading the team, the 180A acts as the Assistant Detachment Commander. He prepares to take the lead whenever the Captain is absent or non-functional, or if a mission calls for the ODA to be split in two teams
  WEAPONS SERGEANT (18B)
  Special Forces Weapons Sergeants are the weapons specialists. They’re capable of operating and maintaining a wide variety of U.S., Allied and other foreign weaponry. Some of your tasks might include maintaining proficiency with all foreign high-density light and heavy weapons; selecting weapons placements and sites; assigning targets and areas of fire.
  ENGINEERING SERGEANT (18C)
  Special Forces Engineering Sergeants are specialists across a wide range of disciplines. Some of your tasks may include working in demolitions, explosives, land and water navigation duties, field fortification, bridging, rigging, reconnaissance and sabotage operations.
  MEDICAL SERGEANT (18D)
  Special Forces Medical Sergeants are considered to be the finest first-response/trauma medical technicians in the world. Though they’re primarily trained with an emphasis on trauma medicine, they also have working knowledge of dentistry, veterinary care, public sanitation, water quality and optometry.
  COMMUNICATIONS SERGEANT (18E)
  Special Forces Communications Sergeants operate every kind of communications gear, from encrypted satellite communications systems to old-style, high-frequency (HF) Morse Code systems. They also have serious computer/networking skills and know several computer languages.
  ASSISTANT OPERATIONS/INTELLIGENCE NCO (18F)
  Since many SF missions require being behind the lines in hostile areas, each team is given an 18F Intelligence Specialist. The 18F collects and evaluates information for transmission, and supplies vital data on the enemy.
  OPERATIONS SERGEANT (18Z)
  The Operations Sergeant is responsible for the overall organization, functionality and training of an SF team. He makes sure the team is outfitted correctly and supports the ODA commander (18A).
  
  
  
  P.S. A Warrant Officer is not a Sergeant Major. It's like between an R.S.M. and junior officer rank.
  
  
  Cheers.

  Link to this forum: Black Hawk Down Casualties

  Report message2

• Message 3

  , in reply to message 2.

  Posted by Sabre-Wulf (U2142937) on Wednesday, 19th October 2005

  Hi Expat,
  
  Thanks for this.
  
  I’m fairly sure that in the SAS over here they only take senior NCOs but on being accepted they are reduced to the rank of trooper and then have to work there way back up again. Obviously this isn’t the case with the Deltas.
  
  Regards,
  
  SW
  

  Link to this forum: Black Hawk Down Casualties

  Report message3

• Message 4

  , in reply to message 3.

  Posted by expat32 (U2025313) on Wednesday, 19th October 2005

  Hi Expat,
  
  Thanks for this.
  
  I’m fairly sure that in the SAS over here they only take senior NCOs but on being accepted they are reduced to the rank of trooper and then have to work there way back up again. Obviously this isn’t the case with the Deltas.
  
  Regards,
  
  SW
  Μύ
  Hi Sabre,
  That's true but an S.A.S. Pvt gets extra money for just being an S.A.S. soldier. So I'm not sure how that would balance out financially.
  
  Cheers.
  

  Link to this forum: Black Hawk Down Casualties

  Report message4

• Message 5

  , in reply to message 2.

  Posted by TonyG (U1830405) on Thursday, 20th October 2005

  The United States Army has an Up or OUT policy. In other words if you are not selected for promotion in a given length of service you are discharged. Μύ
  
  Hi, expat. I didn't know this. Is promotion on merit? I see you say, "selected for promotion" so that implies it is. But does that mean that an experienced private who may be well trained but lacking leadership skills to get promoted, has to leave the army? If so, does that not mean that the US army loses experienced troops and has to replace them with new recruits? I know that is a feature of all armies, but an UP or OUT policy would surely make that more of a problem, wouldn't it?

  Link to this forum: Black Hawk Down Casualties

  Report message5

• Message 6

  , in reply to message 5.

  Posted by expat32 (U2025313) on Thursday, 20th October 2005

  
  Hi Tony,
  
  
  Hi, expat. I didn't know this. Is promotion on merit? I see you say, "selected for promotion" so that implies it is. But does that mean that an experienced private who may be well trained but lacking leadership skills to get promoted, has to leave the army? If so, does that not mean that the US army loses experienced troops and has to replace them with new recruits? I know that is a feature of all armies, but an UP or OUT policy would surely make that more of a problem, wouldn't it?Μύ
  
  
  I'm no expert on this. I should think with the trouble the military is having meeting recruiting goals at the moment, they may have slackened off a bit. Essentially your assumptions are mostly correct. For the responsibilities in today's military an experienced private is not worth much. Bear in mind that when a guy comes in for say 4 years, when he leaves he has many thousands of dollars worth of educational benefits coming for his/her service. So turnover is ongoing.
  
  Cheers.
  

  Link to this forum: Black Hawk Down Casualties

  Report message6

Back to top