Wars and ConflictsΜύ permalink
A German vital blunder
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Message 1.Μύ
Posted by FrankFry (U1853098) on Thursday, 13th October 2005
Germany succeeded in the "blitzkrieg" to force France to yield in 1940. And the country drove Britain into a corner. It had a great impact on the world, so contemporary people didn't doubt German untimate victory, setting the Battle of Britain aside.
But actually Germany invade the Soviet Union and was pulled into endless battles and was ruined after all. This indicates the fact the war against the Soviet Russian misled German strategic judgement. That fact cannot bear comparison with Mussolini's failure in North Africa.
Now, a number of folks might have doubts about why Germany attacked Russia.
Firstly, Hitler hated Communism. Besides his ideological reason, he believed it indispensable to German existernce that in the limited European continent his country expanted its territory into eastern regions containing Russia. He was planning to turn out inhabitants from eastern wide regions and have resources to himself. It was a sort of megalomania.
On the other hand, Germany couldn't acquire territory from western nations. He expected that Britain and France corresponded with Germnany and overlooked what he would do; consequently he opened war against the two states reluctantly. Therefore, when Britain was not German imminent enemy, he began interfering with the Balkan States and invading to the east.
Secondly, Hitler didn't think of Russia as a mighty nation. He imagined that the Soviet Russia wasn't essentially developed, and socialistic political errors confused society, and if Germany gave the country a push, it would fall down easily.
His evaluation was almost to the point except Russian industrial and military forces, I acknowledge. At the beginning of the war with Russia the number of German troops was some 3000,000 and that of Russian was some 4500,000, but the margin between the two continued to increase after that. At last Russia crushed Germany with overwhelming superiority of troops and weapons.
I suspect that as his evaluation was based on the condition of the Russian Empire in WWI, he was misled. Anyway it is certain his irrelevant strategy came evil.
A little learning is a dangerous thing.
Well, I think that Germany should have attended to fight with Britain. Russian preparation for war was ready completely in '42, though.
Thank you.
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Message 2
Posted by Mani (U1821129) on Thursday, 13th October 2005
"I suspect that as his evaluation was based on the condition of the Russian Empire in WWI, he was misled"
Also the soviet's abysmal display in Poland and the Winter War.... -
Message 3
Posted by Meczeslaw (U2061598) on Thursday, 13th October 2005
Hi FrankFry! ))
His evaluation was almost to the point except Russian industrial and military forces, I acknowledge. At the beginning of the war with Russia the number of German troops was some 3000,000 and that of Russian was some 4500,000, but the margin between the two continued to increase after that. At last Russia crushed Germany with overwhelming superiority of troops and weapons.Μύ
It is possible to result hundreds of Hitler's mistakes on a course of war. But still he had chances to win.
His biggest mistake was brutal attitude to the Russians and the other people of the USSR. "We must exterminate population. It is our mission if we want to protect Germans. I have the right to annihilate millions of people of the lowest race who reproduce like worms...", told the 'fuhrer'. Only in Byelorussia Nazi destroyed 627 villages (i.m. with all it's inhabits). -
Message 4
Posted by Stepney Boy (U1760040) on Thursday, 13th October 2005
Perhaps if Hitler had concentraited on gaining lands eastward going through Czechoslovakia to Russia, by-passing Poland thus not giving the British a reason to declare war, for which we were not ready, on Germany and bearing in mind how western europe felt and perhaps feared about comminist Russia he may have been left to remove the comminist 'Threat' and the out come may have resulted in not having a second world war.
As he did not he finished up fighting the wrong war.
Regards
Spike -
Message 5
Posted by TonyG (U1830405) on Thursday, 13th October 2005
I recall readin Adolf Galland's war memoirs. As a leading German fighter pilot he and a few other senior officers were told about the invasion of Russia by Goering just a day or so before it started. He recounts that he and his companions were horrified that Germany should attack Russia before Britain was defeated. He felt it was a major blunder at the time.
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Message 6
Posted by steveP (U1775134) on Thursday, 13th October 2005
Perhaps if Hitler had concentraited on gaining lands eastward going through Czechoslovakia to Russia, by-passing Poland thus not giving the British a reason to declare war, for which we were not ready, on Germany and bearing in mind how western europe felt and perhaps feared about comminist Russia he may have been left to remove the comminist 'Threat' and the out come may have resulted in not having a second world war.
As he did not he finished up fighting the wrong war.
Regards
Spike
Μύ
Spike
I don't think Hitler could afford not to take out Poland, or leave France unconquered in his rear. After Czechoslovakia the western powers knew they needed to stand up to Hitler and the Germans could not leave the considerable industrial and military might of Britain and France in their rear. Also, without access to Polish territory he would have had very little common border from which to invade Russia. With Halifax in power he might have achieved peace in the west and got a free hand against the Soviets but I don't think he could do it before.
To Hitler it was the right war, if not the only war that mattered. His entire aim was to gain 'living-space' in the east and remove the twin threats of Bolshevism and Jewish/Slavic lesser races. If he had decided on a more moderate stance, even if only until he gained the victory he wanted, he could have been welcomed as a liberator across most of the SU and gained almost certain victory.
Steve -
Message 7
Posted by FrankFry (U1853098) on Thursday, 13th October 2005
Hi spike,
One of primary German objects was to recover shpere which had belonged to Preussen-Deutsch. So Fuhrer and Generals who had lived in East Preussen took it for granted that they regained the lost land from Poland. Passing through is beside the point. -
Message 8
Posted by Idamante (U1894562) on Saturday, 15th October 2005
In the book "What If" John Keegan suggests that maybe before he invaded Russia Hitler should have conquered Turkey. That would have outflanked the Russians and put Germany within striking distance of their oil supplies. What do people think of this idea?
The other issue is whether Stalin was planning to attack Germany in 1942, as some people have said. If this is true then Hitler's invasion begins to look like a brilliant pre-emptive strike, even if it did go disastrously wrong in the end. -
Message 9
Posted by expat32 (U2025313) on Saturday, 15th October 2005
I recall readin Adolf Galland's war memoirs. As a leading German fighter pilot he and a few other senior officers were told about the invasion of Russia by Goering just a day or so before it started. He recounts that he and his companions were horrified that Germany should attack Russia before Britain was defeated. He felt it was a major blunder at the time.Μύ
Hi Tony, Just a little postcript, Galland is still alive, he now lives in Spain.
Cheers. -
Message 10
Posted by steveP (U1775134) on Saturday, 15th October 2005
Gaiseric
It might work but its a very high risk strategy. The Turks might not have been that well equipped but they would have put up a hell of a fight and Anatolia has a lot of defencive terrain. Also Stalin was paranoid and even if Adolf was swearing blind he was aiming to drive Britain out of the ME the Russians would have been very concerned about a German presence there.
You might have got a German force able to attack into Syria but it would have very vulnerable supply lines. Britain and the remaining Turkish forces might have been able to establish defencive positions say in Cilicia, which has some very defencive terrain. How long they could have held is difficult to say but possibly for at least a while. Don't forget however the ME oil is often overrated in WWII. Much of it was not discovered until after the war. Furthermore Britain drew its main supplies from the US. Given the distance involved and the hostility of many countries along the way I doubt if the Germans could have drawn much supply themselves from the region. The prestige loss and the loss of the Suez Canal would probably be more important.
In terms of a Soviet attack in 42 I doubt it as their re-equipping would still be in its early stages by then. Possibly 43 would be more likely. Have no doubt that Stalin would prepare for war but uncertain under what circumstances he would actually strike.
Steve -
Message 11
Posted by Steelers708 (U1831340) on Saturday, 15th October 2005
Just to put the record straight Adolf Galland died February 9, 1996, in Oberwinter, Germany. As far as I'm aware he never lived in Spain, he went to Argentina after the war and helped Juan Peron set up the Argentinian Airforce, but he returned to Germany in 1955.
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Message 12
Posted by Stepney Boy (U1760040) on Saturday, 15th October 2005
Hi FrankFry and SteveP,
Thank you for your thoughts and insights gents, perhaps I should have started my comment with the words 'what if'
Many thanks
Regards
Spike -
Message 13
Posted by expat32 (U2025313) on Saturday, 15th October 2005
I went ahead and Googled him. Sure enough Galland died in 96. I have his autographed picture, I wonder if that raises the value. He retired to Spain until ill health forced his return to Germany. The WW2 crowd are sure getting thin on the ground. May he rest in peace.
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Message 14
Posted by FrankFry (U1853098) on Tuesday, 18th October 2005
It is often said that brutal oppression against Russian people was one of German blunders. But since German end was depriving them of their domain and making them slaves as I imply, there was not room for a torelant policy at all.
As a matter of fact, the Russian nation above all Ukrainian destested Communism. So when German Army intruded into the U.S.S.R., soldiers were heartily welcomed and their tanks were decorated with flowers. However, as soon as their land was transferred to the administration of the party and "SS" came and did oppress, their friendless changed into depair. Some of them threw grenades named "revenge" at soldiers as partisans.
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