Wars and ConflictsΒ permalink
21st Century British Mercenaries.
This discussion has been closed.
-
Message 1.Β
Posted by expat32 (U2025313) on Saturday, 24th September 2005
Would anyone care to comment on the fact that the British Army employs Mercenaries (poor people from Nepal) to do their fighting for them.
-
Message 2
Posted by Bishwarrior (U1759943) on Saturday, 24th September 2005
Yes, we do and we have done for years. They are called Gurkas.
We also recruit from Fiji and the carribean,again, poor people. We also have guys from many countries around the world serving in our ranks. They include South Africa (theres one in my unit), Australia, Rodesia, New Zealand, canada and also Southern Ireland. But these don't have their own regiments like the Gurkas do.
We also recruit poor people from London, Liverpool Manchester, newcastle and every other city in Britain.
And your point is.
By the way, are you of Catholic Irish decent by any chance. -
Message 3
Posted by Dirk Marinus (U1648073) on Saturday, 24th September 2005
<QUOTE' USER='expat32' USERID='2025313'>Would anyone care to comment on the fact that the British Army employs Mercenaries (poor people from Nepal) to do their fighting for them.<BR /></QUOTE><BR /><BR /><BR /><BR />And there are also many British nationals serving in the armed forces of other countries.<BR /><BR />NO they are not, repeat not, instructors but just men/women who joined the armed forces of that particular country.
-
Message 4
Posted by Bishwarrior (U1759943) on Saturday, 24th September 2005
O, and by the way expat, they don't quite do ALL the fighting. The British Army does have the odd Brit in it that helps out now and again.
-
Message 5
Posted by Lord Ball (U1767246) on Saturday, 24th September 2005
And the Ghuerkas are reknowned for their bravery and courage. They're some of the best forces within the British Army and within most armies of the world. Expat, care to answer why a fair amount of your armed forces are poorly educated?
-
Message 6
Posted by expat32 (U2025313) on Saturday, 24th September 2005
<QUOTE' USER='Lord Ball' USERID='1767246'>And the Ghuerkas are reknowned for their bravery and courage. They're some of the best forces within the British Army and within most armies of the world. Expat, care to answer why a fair amount of your armed forces are poorly educated?</QUOTE><BR /><BR />They can spell Gurkas, and renowned<BR />
-
Message 7
Posted by Bishwarrior (U1759943) on Saturday, 24th September 2005
<quote' user='expat32' userid='2025313'
They can spell Gurkas, and renowned
</quote>
So, aside from just takeing the p**s, and seeing as so far no one is overly concerned that Britain recruits from outside its shores, care to comment on the point your trying make. -
Message 8
Posted by expat32 (U2025313) on Saturday, 24th September 2005
" We also recruit poor people from London, Liverpool Manchester, newcastle and every other city in Britain.
We also have guys from many countries around the world serving in our ranks. They include South Africa (theres one in my unit), Australia, Rodesia, New Zealand, canada and also Southern Ireland. But these don't have their own regiments like the Gurkas do."
Hi Bish, They are regular members of the British Army with FULL benefits. My solicitation was regarding the MERCENARIES hired by the British Army.
"By the way, are you of Catholic Irish decent by any chance"
By the way. No. -
Message 9
Posted by Bishwarrior (U1759943) on Saturday, 24th September 2005
And i assume your point is that the Gurkas do not recieve the same benefits as other British troops, including those recruited from abroad.
-
Message 10
Posted by Bishwarrior (U1759943) on Saturday, 24th September 2005
Well, lets just get a few things straight. Gurkas ARE regular members of the British Army. They are not just taken on for a job and then sent packing. They sign on the same as anyone else. They recieve the same pay as everyone else. This pay is far greater than what they would get back home and many support large families on it and are often the wealthiest in their village.
However, and this is a disgrace in my view, they do not recieve the same pension right rights as other British troops.
Are they Mercenaries. No, i don't think so, not in the true sense of the word. If they are, then so are the Fijians, West Indians, Australians, South Africans and all the others. -
Message 11
Posted by expat32 (U2025313) on Saturday, 24th September 2005
They do not get the same pay as a Brit regular. They get the same as a Gurkha in the Indian army. When based in the U.K. they do get additional compensation.
I don't know about the British Army retirement system. I can tell you that a retired U.S.servicemember will cost a lot more in retirement that what he/she ever received on active duty. A retired Gurkha receives 8% of what a Brit regular gets.
For nearly 200 years the Gurkhas have helped to fight Britain's wars and keep the peace. They have won 13 Victoria Crosses and served in most of Britain's conflicts during that period.
If there was a minute's silence for every Gurkha casualty from World War 2 alone, we would have to keep quiet for two weeks. But silence will not help the living, the wounded and disabled, those without military pensions following World War 2 service or redundancy.. With their dependants, they number many thousands. They live in often harsh conditions, with no national health service, no public housing and no unemployment benefit.How convenient for the British taxpayer. -
Message 12
Posted by expat32 (U2025313) on Saturday, 24th September 2005
Mercenary.
1. One who serves or works merely for monetary gain; a hireling.
2. A professional soldier hired for service in a foreign army -
Message 13
Posted by Lord Ball (U1767246) on Saturday, 24th September 2005
Expat, moan all you like about the Gurkhas plight with money. Take Her Majesty's Government to a Human Rights Court if you're so for their rights. The Gurkhas have acquitted themselves in battle for Britain and it's old Empire for 200 years as was rightly pointed out. The pay they receive makes them virtual millionaires back in their villages. Stop moaning about the BRITISH way of doing this and start picking apart the way your own Armed Forces handles itself.
-
Message 14
Posted by Bishwarrior (U1759943) on Saturday, 24th September 2005
Ex pat, i agree with you that the beifits they recieve is a disgrace. But they choise to serve willingly, as do all British soldiers. And if they return to Nepal when they leave the army, it is not our fault that their home country does not have the benifits we in the UK have.
So then, would you say that South African, Irish men, Australians and all the others serving in the British Army are merceneries. -
Message 15
Posted by expat32 (U2025313) on Saturday, 24th September 2005
"Ex pat, i agree with you that the beifits they recieve is a disgrace. But they choise to serve willingly, as do all British soldiers. And if they return to Nepal when they leave the army, it is not our fault that their home country does not have the benifits we in the UK have. "
They have no option. They must return to Nepal for discharge.
"So then, would you say that South African, Irish men, Australians and all the others serving in the British Army are merceneries."
No of course not. They have hardly been lured in from a poor native village in Nepal to come and fight Britain's wars for money. Nepal is not and has never been in the British Empire or commonwealth.
Bish, I copied this from the British Army's official web site.
What are the requirements on Nationality and Citizenship for joining the Army?
Nationality
Applicants will be eligible if they are a bona fida resident of the United Kingdom or the Irish Republic and are one of the following:
A British citizen; a citizen of the British dependent territories; a British overseas citizen; a British subject under the British Nationality Act 1981; a citizen of an independent Commonwealth country; British Protected Person; Citizen of the Irish Republic.
Residence
In addition to the rules on nationality, whether or not you are of UK origin, you should normally have resided in the UK for a minimum of 5 years immediately prior to making an application. In certain circumstances, a shorter period of residency may be accepted, your recruiter should be able to advise you at the time of application if you are eligible for such an exemption. You should also be in possession of a full passport from your country of origin showing your immigration status in the UK. All applicants must have the right of entry in to the UK. -
Message 16
Posted by Bishwarrior (U1759943) on Saturday, 24th September 2005
Ok, so they are Mercenaries. i don't have a problem, the Gurkas don't have a problem, and i doubt many people in Britain have a problem.
So, wots next on your list of things British you want to have a dig at. -
Message 17
Posted by DaveMBA (U1360771) on Saturday, 24th September 2005
No, mercenaries are groups of warriors "bought in" for a specific war - they are not part of the permanent military establishment. The Ghurkas are a remnant of the old British Indian army - they wanted to continue to be part of the UK army as it gave them opportunities they might not otherwise have. They are excellent soldiers, familiar with existing in certain types of terrain, where UK forces might be required to operate.
Individuals have always moved around the world in search of what they see as a better life. That is after all what an ex-pat is! (well, except that when they get old or ill, they are on the first plane back here demanding benefits to which they ahev made no recent contribution in taxes). -
Message 18
Posted by expat32 (U2025313) on Saturday, 24th September 2005
<QUOTE' USER='Bishwarrior' USERID='1759943'>Ok, so they are Mercenaries. i don't have a problem, the Gurkas don't have a problem, and i doubt many people in Britain have a problem.<BR /><BR />So, wots next on your list of things British you want to have a dig at.</QUOTE><BR /><BR />Ah Bish, you agree with me. I much prefer you being argumentative.
-
Message 19
Posted by expat32 (U2025313) on Saturday, 24th September 2005
Hi Dave, I'm an expat. IN HERE.
-
Message 20
Posted by expat32 (U2025313) on Saturday, 24th September 2005
"So, wots next on your list of things British you want to have a dig at."
That would take another thread. I'm still enjoying this one. -
Message 21
Posted by Bishwarrior (U1759943) on Saturday, 24th September 2005
<quote' user='expat32' userid='2025313'
Ah Bish, you agree with me. I much prefer you being argumentative.</quote>
But i still don't see wot you are trying to achieve. -
Message 22
Posted by expat32 (U2025313) on Saturday, 24th September 2005
<quote' user='Bishwarrior' userid='1759943'><quote' user='expat32' userid='2025313'
Ah Bish, you agree with me. I much prefer you being argumentative.</quote>
But i still don't see wot you are trying to achieve.</quote>
Bish, I came in here a week or so ago to protest the B.B.C. coverage of Hurricane Katrina. I surfed into History Messageboard. I couldn't believe all the American bashing that was going on. This is after all an allied forum. Ya'll never expected this ugly American to show up. It's not very nice is it. A bit more than disappointing. So here I am pushing your buttons. -
Message 23
Posted by Bishwarrior (U1759943) on Saturday, 24th September 2005
O, mate, i don't mind you pulling us up on things we do wrong. I'll be the first to join you when i agree with you. And yes, i'll have a go at the yanks when i think they are wrong. But i'll also stand up for them when i think they are right. I don't bash for the hell of it.
But this is scrapping the bottom of the barrel. Its haveing a dig for the hell of it. -
Message 24
Posted by expat32 (U2025313) on Saturday, 24th September 2005
It could be. Well anyway. i'm outta here. I salute you for the warrior you are.
-
Message 25
Posted by Bishwarrior (U1759943) on Saturday, 24th September 2005
This isn't pushing buttons. Its just being pathetic.
-
Message 26
Posted by expat32 (U2025313) on Sunday, 25th September 2005
<QUOTE' USER='Bishwarrior' USERID='1759943'>Ok, so they are Mercenaries. i don't have a problem, the Gurkas don't have a problem, and i doubt many people in Britain have a problem.</QUOTE><BR /><BR />We have one active duty British soldier that concurs. The British army enlists Mercenaries to fight for them.
-
Message 27
Posted by DaveMBA (U1360771) on Sunday, 25th September 2005
I realise that being in the US might well have addled your brain, but I did explain the meaning of emrcenary further up. As for your beloved US, they will recruit people from any nation at non-officer rank in their military - indeed such are their problems with Iraq that they will bend the rules now on jailbirds and crackheads to keep the quotas up.
The people of the UK are delighted that the Ghurkas wish to serve within our forces. -
Message 28
Posted by expat32 (U2025313) on Sunday, 25th September 2005
"The people of the UK are delighted that the Ghurkas wish to serve within our forces."
In addition we have one British citizen......sorry...........Subject who is delighted with his countries choice of mercenaries -
Message 29
Posted by Lord Ball (U1767246) on Sunday, 25th September 2005
I am also proud of the Gurkhas service to Britain. So make that two, expat.
-
Message 30
Posted by Bishwarrior (U1759943) on Sunday, 25th September 2005
<quote' user='expat32' userid='2025313'
We have one active duty British soldier that concurs. The British army enlists Mercenaries to fight for them.</quote>
And the question still stands. So the hell what. I doubt your army would complain if a load of Gurkas came along to bail them out. -
Message 31
Posted by DL (U1683040) on Wednesday, 28th September 2005
Just a quick word on the Gurkhas (Yes that is the correct spelling.)
I served with a group of Gurkhas in Hong Kong and was curious as to why they would choose to travel half way round the world to join an army of another country, so I simply asked them and the answers were hard to forget, so here is one guy's story. The people in his village in Nepal have a great warrior tradition, and considered it the ultimate accolade to be accepted as a Gurkha. He described walking for 2 weeks to merely apply to join, and his family were utterly proud of him, and in fact were financially set for life by the fact that he was now a Gurkha. Bearing in mind this guy was Queens Gurkha Signals, and working as a Communications techie, he was not only an excellent soldier, but a highly intelligent one as well. I asked him how that was that his family was in such a position, and he simply replied that his monthly pay as a soldier was enough for the entire family to live on for a year since the cost of living was so much cheaper. He said that out of those who applied, only 1 or 2 percent were accepted for training. His intention was to stay in for his working life, and then retire back to Nepal a happy man. I have never worked with any better soldiers than these guys, they really are the best.
So before condemning them as "mercenaries", it might well be worth considering what benefits these guys get out of joining up.
DL -
Message 32
Posted by expat32 (U2025313) on Wednesday, 28th September 2005
DL, the question is not the poor Nepalese who are motivated by money to fight for your country. The question pertains to you're govt employing them.
-
Message 33
Posted by DL (U1683040) on Wednesday, 28th September 2005
Expat,
In answer to that one, I refer you to DaveMBA's earlier post regarding US policy of foreign nationals in its armed forces.
A case of POT, KETTLE, BLACK.
DL -
Message 34
Posted by expat32 (U2025313) on Wednesday, 28th September 2005
<QUOTE' USER='DL ' USERID='1683040'>Expat,<BR /><BR />In answer to that one, I refer you to DaveMBA's earlier post regarding US policy of foreign nationals in its armed forces.<BR /><BR />A case of POT, KETTLE, BLACK.<BR />DL</QUOTE><BR /><BR />Foreign nationals in our military have been legally admitted as immigrants. They receive the same pay and benefits as an American citizen. Given the above their having elected to be an equal part of our society they should share in the responsibility of defending it. May I refer you to the definition of Mercenary. <BR /><BR />Mercenary.<BR /><BR />1. One who serves or works merely for monetary gain; a hireling. <BR /><BR />2. A professional soldier hired for service in a foreign army
-
Message 35
Posted by Mark E (U204575) on Wednesday, 28th September 2005
Expat, the original post was/is:<BR />"Would anyone care to comment on the fact that the British Army employs Mercenaries (poor people from Nepal) to do their fighting for them."<BR /><BR />You then define mercenary - a good thing, we all know what we are talking about:<BR /><QUOTE' USER='expat32' USERID='2025313'><BR />1. One who serves or works merely for monetary gain; a hireling. <BR /><BR />2. A professional soldier hired for service in a foreign army</QUOTE><BR />It seems many have commented on the Gurkhas serving with the British Army, and quite a few too on 'foreigners' in the United States' army.<BR />I have a question: Are you making a value-judgement on the British army using '[foreign] professional soldiers hired for service'? If so, could you explicitly state what value judgement you are making? Then I expect members of the board will be able to comment further on the original post.<BR />Cheers, Mark
-
Message 36
Posted by Bishwarrior (U1759943) on Wednesday, 28th September 2005
But Mark, when they are hired, they are not proffesinal soldiers. We train them to be.
-
Message 37
Posted by Mark E (U204575) on Wednesday, 28th September 2005
<QUOTE' USER='Bishwarrior' USERID='1759943'>But Mark, when they are hired, they are not proffesinal soldiers. We train them to be.</QUOTE><BR /><BR /><SMILEY TYPE='laugh' H2G2='Smiley#laugh'/> Bish, don't you worry. I am 'silly and ignorant'.<BR /><BR /><SMILEY TYPE='yikes' H2G2='Smiley#yikes'/> makes me sound like Minette <SMILEY TYPE='winkeye' H2G2='Smiley#winkeye'/>
About this Board
The History message boards are now closed. They remain visible as a matter of record but the opportunity to add new comments or open new threads is no longer available. Thank you all for your valued contributions over many years.
or Β to take part in a discussion.
The message board is currently closed for posting.
The message board is closed for posting.
This messageboard is .
Find out more about this board's
Search this Board
Βι¶ΉΤΌΕΔ iD
Βι¶ΉΤΌΕΔ navigation
Βι¶ΉΤΌΕΔ links
Βι¶ΉΤΌΕΔ Β© 2014 The Βι¶ΉΤΌΕΔ is not responsible for the content of external sites. Read more.
This page is best viewed in an up-to-date web browser with style sheets (CSS) enabled. While you will be able to view the content of this page in your current browser, you will not be able to get the full visual experience. Please consider upgrading your browser software or enabling style sheets (CSS) if you are able to do so.