Βι¶ΉΤΌΕΔ

Wars and ConflictsΒ  permalink

Verdun -in the french psyche.

• Message 1.Β 

  Posted by redcoat (U2086925) on Tuesday, 20th September 2005

  I've read numerous accounts of the dreadful battle of Verdun in 1916. It amazes me how both sides held on with so much slaughter occuring.
  I know Verdun was a shrewd target for Falkenhayn's attack, (being in a salient, poor road and rail network to the area and that French defences had been run down in the area.)
  Falkenhayn knew the French would defend the place to the last man (to be bled white) but why is Verdun held so high in the french national psyche?
  Plus - if the French had pulled back beyond Verdun at the moment of attack, what then?
  

  Link to this forum: Verdun -in the french psyche.

  Report message1

• Message 2

  , in reply to message 1.

  Posted by steveP (U1775134) on Tuesday, 20th September 2005

  Redcoat
  
  I had often wondered this as well but am just reading a book, Mud, Blood and Poppycock by a Gordon Corrigan, which seeks to debunk a lot of the myths about WWI. Pretty good but probably a little bias towards the generals and especially Haig and against the politicians.
  
  He makes a number of points about why the French were so determined to hang onto Verdun. It was there that the heirs of Charlemagne had divided his empire in 843 and although it had become German by 923 it was in French hands by 1553 and besieged in the 30 years war. In 1792 it held out for the revolutionary forces against the invading Germans until its commander died and became a rallying cry for Danton. Again in 1870 it was apparently the last of the French border fortresses to surrender. As such, apart from the fact they had already lost so much territory, Corrigan suggest Verdun had an almost mystic symbolism to the French and the Germans knew this so it was the ideal place to bled the French dry.
  
  Hope this info is useful.
  
  Steve
  

  Link to this forum: Verdun -in the french psyche.

  Report message2

• Message 3

  , in reply to message 2.

  Posted by Mark (U2073932) on Wednesday, 21st September 2005

  Steve,
  Thanks for that. But what if Schmidt Von Knobeldorf (crown princes advisor) had had his own way from the start. And had all the forces available that Falkenhayn had held back? Verdun taken, France fallen?
  Interesting one?
  
  Redcoat

  Link to this forum: Verdun -in the french psyche.

  Report message3

• Message 4

  , in reply to message 3.

  Posted by Hasse (U1882612) on Wednesday, 21st September 2005

  redcoat
  
  Much better if Falkehein would have been allowed to continue his tactics bombarding but no serious attack,sitting tight in the Stollen (deep shelters)thus bleed the French army to death.
  
  It was the crown prince that got in his silly head that Verdun had a military significanse not only a moral one.
  The costly innefective mass atacks started on Verdun,so in the end the only possitive thing for the Germans was that the inadequate Nivelle did get in charge of the French army.

  Link to this forum: Verdun -in the french psyche.

  Report message4

• Message 5

  , in reply to message 4.

  Posted by Mark (U2073932) on Thursday, 22nd September 2005

  Yes, but if Falkenhayn had continued to bombard the french lines with no attacks, then surely the French would have pulled back over the Meuse. Allow the Germans to capture Verdun, and have the city zeroed with every piece of ordanance the french had. Then the Germans would have found themselves in a salient. As Churchill said "receiving an attack is like catching a cricket ball, your hands must give a little."
  If the French had pulled back in order, I believe an enveloping operation like Hannibal's at Cannae might have worked. Suck the germans in and hit them from the flanks.
  Only an idea.

  Link to this forum: Verdun -in the french psyche.

  Report message5

• Message 6

  , in reply to message 5.

  Posted by Hasse (U1882612) on Thursday, 22nd September 2005

  Redcoat
  
  If the French had turned back the germans would just straigten out the front.
  
  But the point is that the French headquater had given the order that Verdun should be defended to any price,and the lorries should role on the "sacred road" under any barrage.
  So the French army wouldnt withdraw before they where bleeded white and their morale in shambles.
  
  Hasse

  Link to this forum: Verdun -in the french psyche.

  Report message6

• Message 7

  , in reply to message 2.

  Posted by Kilted Man - The Return (U2103467) on Thursday, 22nd September 2005

  Gordan Corrigan's book 'Mud, Blood and Poppycock' is one of the most refreshing and interesting history books I have read in a long time. I thoroughly recommend it to any armchair historian. Even if you don't end up agreeing with all his conclusions, it will certainly make you think a great deal.
  
  Plug over!
  
  K.M

  Link to this forum: Verdun -in the french psyche.

  Report message7

Back to top