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Goverment Pensions

• Message 1.Β 

  Posted by Jean (U1754038) on Wednesday, 7th September 2005

  Hi, Does anyone know when goverment pensions started?, my great grandfather would have retired about 1934, I know he had worked for the Manchester Ship canal since at least 1891 and as I can't find an entry for his birth, I was wondering how he would prove his age, if pensions were paid then. Many thanks, Jean

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• Message 2

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  Posted by jc (U1902680) on Wednesday, 7th September 2005

  The National insurance act 1911.
  The applicant needed his/her birth certificate so they completed a Form of Requisition which was taken to the Superintendant Registrar of the district in which the birth occured or sent to him, together with the fee of 6d. and a stamped addressed envelope.
  Details on the form: Name Birth date, place of birth, fathers full name, fathers occupation, mothers full name mothers maiden name signature of applicant, address and date.
  
  I was lucky to be given a copy of this document by a distant relative and not all fields were completed! it was dated 18th July 1912

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• Message 3

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  Posted by jc (U1902680) on Wednesday, 7th September 2005

  I forgot to add, my relative only put the year of his birth, place of birth, his father and mothers name on the Form of Requisition and no address! but it was accompanied by a letter so I presume the address was on the letter.

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• Message 4

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  Posted by dmatt74 (U1690430) on Wednesday, 7th September 2005

  Government pensions have been paid since the 19th century, but the Manchester Ship Canal would have been run by a private company and would not have been part of the nationalisation until 1947 or thereabouts. If you go to The National Archives, Kew, website and look at A2A (Access to Archives) you can search to see who might hold any register or records.

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• Message 5

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  Posted by Jean (U1754038) on Wednesday, 7th September 2005

  Hi, thanks for the reply, but I have two great grandfathers whom don't seem to have a birth certificate, so how do you think they would have proved their age?, any suggestions?, by the way the other was a Police officer whom retired in 1920.

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• Message 6

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  Posted by dmatt74 (U1690430) on Thursday, 8th September 2005

  Proving your age was probably not as important then especially if their service records said they joined at say 21 and served for 35 years and left at 56 and they had those details of service.
  
  A Police Officer would needed to have a birth certificate and the information should have been on an attestation form and/or in his pension details, if he was in the Metropolitan Police then those records should be at The National Archives, Kew. If he served in another force then the local record/archive office should have the records.

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• Message 7

  , in reply to message 6.

  Posted by Jean (U1754038) on Thursday, 8th September 2005

  Hi, thanks for your reply, my great grandfather, Cornelius Langshaw joined Salford City police in 1892, after 7 years in the Royal Horse Artillery, I have a copy of his police card which said his date of birth was 04.02.1865, but I have searched the birth indexes for several years on either side of this and cannot find one for him, the same has happened for my other great grandfather who worked for the ship canal, it's really frustrating when you can't find prove of their birth and parents.

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• Message 8

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  Posted by Sahara (U859603) on Friday, 9th September 2005

  Hi, I am not sure if this would help or if you have already tried it. Do you know the place of birth of these gentleman whose birth registrations you are missing? If so, it may be worth searching the parish register for their christening. Sometimes a date of birth will have been recorded on the christening, but even if it isn't, it should give you a more accurate timescale to search the BMD index.
  
  If you cannot get to the local register office for the individuals then if you post the details on here someone may be able to help you.
  
  Sahara

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• Message 9

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  Posted by Jean (U1754038) on Friday, 9th September 2005

  Thanks Sahara, My first great grandfather was called Richard Bailey,(a popular name), who says in the 1901 census he was born in Blackpool, Lancs abt 1868/69, found him and his family in 1881 under Bayliff, his father was William,born 1829, Cartmell, lancs, a joiner, looks like he travelled a lot because he has 3 sons, William 1865/6 in North Shields, Richard, Blackpool and John abt 1871/2 in Kirby stephen in Westmorland, cannot find them in any other census, but found his father as a boarder in 1861, in Ravenstonedale, now down as Bailey again, I don't know whether I'm looking for either of these names and there are many variations of each, without a birth certificate, I can't find his mother's maiden name, her name was Elizabeth according to 1881 census, born Whitehaven. The other great grandfather is not too much of a problem, as he had an unusual name and and I know he was born Mansfield on 4.2.1865, from his police record. I have given up on this many times, but can't seem to leave it, many thanks, Jean

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• Message 10

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  Posted by Linda1111 (U1103093) on Friday, 9th September 2005

  Cassie I think I may have them on the 1871. I thought perhaps there had been a transcription errorbecause I found them under Bell but looking at the image, the name is written as Bill!
  
  Here are the details:
  
  Elizabeth Bill Head Mar 33 Joiners wife Born NK
  William Son 9 Joiners son Lancashire Blackpool
  Richard Son 3 ?land ? (unreadable)
  John Son 6months Cumberland Little Musgrave
  
  If you would like the image then you can contact me via this link:
  
  

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• Message 11

  , in reply to message 10.

  Posted by Jean (U1754038) on Friday, 9th September 2005

  Hi Isobel, Thank you so much for this info, you don't know how long I have sat trawling through the census's for this family, I have got access to 1871, and when I looked it up, it is them, maybe Richard wasn't born in Blackpool after all, or maybe he's registered under Bell, I'm going to have another look in 1861 now and see if I can find them with the info on 1871, Many thanks, Jean

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• Message 12

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  Posted by Linda1111 (U1103093) on Friday, 9th September 2005

  It's a funny one that Cassie. Have fun unravelling it all!

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• Message 13

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  Posted by Jean (U1754038) on Friday, 9th September 2005

  Thanks Isobel, This has now got to be a record, thanks to you I now have him as Bell or Bill in 1871, Bayliff in 1881, Bayley in 1891 and Bailey in 1901, should be fun, best wishes, Jean

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