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Help with Handwriting Please
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Message 1.Β
Posted by Pheno (U14601115) on Tuesday, 20th December 2011
Before I lose access to all you clever things out there I thought I would post this poser that I came across yesterday.
The detail of the 1871 entry - where on Atry he is transcribed as George Hembury is Source Citation: Class: RG10; Piece: 1074; Folio: 83; Page: 31
I have been searching for George Hornsbury/Hornsby/Hornsberry/Hollonsbury/Hollingsbury - yes you think of it and George is bound to have been known by it - and finally found this entry on the 1871 census however I can't decipher his occupation. As I can't find him in 1861 I wondered if this occupation could be anything to do with the army and may be he was overseas in 1861.
George is shrouded in mystery to the extent that in 1841 he is with his grandparents in Brighton, Sussex (all as Hollonsbury) and described as being born about 1832 in county (although his grandfather is not) yet in 1851 still living with his grandparents in Brighton (all as Hoonbery) he is described as being born Dover, Kent so I have not been able to come up with his parentage.
Any help with deciphering the 1871 occupation or finding George's parentage would be most welcome.
Thanks, Pheno -
Message 2
Posted by jc (U1902680) on Tuesday, 20th December 2011
looks like pensioner in Army, which means he "should" have a record over on FMP military chelsea out-pensioners
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Message 3
Posted by jc (U1902680) on Tuesday, 20th December 2011
As for looking for his parentage, it might be easier to look for his marriage first and buy the cert, though with that amount of spelling variation I don't envy you!
1871 says ado for place of birth which means Brighton, given that he is in Brighton 1841... my guess he was likely to have been born in that area. -
Message 4
Posted by Tourmie (U13798934) on Tuesday, 20th December 2011
Can you give details of the grandparents he was living with? Names, ages, where born etc
Might be able to trace one of his parents that way. -
Message 5
Posted by jc (U1902680) on Tuesday, 20th December 2011
1841 for ref....
Brighton
James Hollonsbury 52 labourer
Grace Hollonsbury 50
Ann Hollonsbury 25
Thomas Hollonsbury 14
Edward Hollonsbury 12
Margarett Hollonsbury 10
George Hollonsbury 8
Grace Hollonsbury 5
1851
James Hoonbery 67 fish seller
Grace Hoonbery 60 bather Brighton
Thomas Hoonbery 24 fisherman Brighton
Margaret Hoonbery 20 charwoman Broghton
George Hoonbery 19 gson fish seller Dover
William Hoonbery 16 gson builders labourer Brighton
James Hoonbery 10 gson Brighton
Sarah Denyer 14 gdau Brighton
now why would the family suddenly go to Dover for a year or two!
doesn't make much sense does it -
Message 6
Posted by Tourmie (U13798934) on Tuesday, 20th December 2011
Thanks that helps
I can see on family search children of James H and Grace Martin as James b 1824 Brighton d 1887, Thomas 1826 Brighton, Edward 1828, Margaret 1832 Brighton and a Sarah Hollingbery 1821 Brighton.
Normally you would assume one of the sons is the father of George however if George was a grandson born 1832 he is as old as some of the children so they can't have begatted him
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Message 7
Posted by jc (U1902680) on Tuesday, 20th December 2011
its not making life easy is it Tourmie...
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Message 8
Posted by Tourmie (U13798934) on Tuesday, 20th December 2011
Well no... I see on the 1841 there is an Ann aged 25. In theory she could have begatted George and the 5 year old Grace but hesitate to lay that on her without proof.
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Message 9
Posted by jc (U1902680) on Tuesday, 20th December 2011
big gap.. which means there is room for some more children!
Groom's Name: James Hornsberry
Bride's Name: Grace Martin
Marriage Date: 1807
Marriage Place: Saint Nicholas, Brighton, Sussex, England
Indexing Project (Batch) Number: M14794-6
System Origin: England-VR
Source Film Number: 1067106
Reference Number: 2:296RMFF -
Message 10
Posted by Tourmie (U13798934) on Tuesday, 20th December 2011
Very big gap.. The older ones are likely to have flown the nest by 1841 and with all the variation in surname spelling could be hard to pin them down.
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Message 11
Posted by jc (U1902680) on Tuesday, 20th December 2011
one more...
Mary Hollansbery
Gender: Female
Baptism/Christening Date: 01 Mar 1812
Baptism/Christening Place: St. Nicholas', Brighton, Sussex, England
Father's Name: James Hollansbery
Mother's Name: Grace
Indexing Project (Batch) Number: C01362-3
System Origin: England-EASy
Source Film Number: 1067105
Reference Number: item 2 -
Message 12
Posted by jc (U1902680) on Tuesday, 20th December 2011
and another
Name: William Winterman Hollansbery
Gender: Male
Baptism/Christening Date: 03 Dec 1809
Baptism/Christening Place: St. Nicholas', Brighton, Sussex, England
Father's Name: James Hollansbery
Indexing Project (Batch) Number: C01362-3
System Origin: England-EASy
Source Film Number: 1067105
Reference Number: item 2
.Name: Elizabeth Hollingsbury
Gender: Female
Baptism/Christening Date: 13 Feb 1820
Baptism/Christening Place: St. Nicholas' Church, Brighton, Sussex, England
Father's Name: James Hollingsbury
Indexing Project (Batch) Number: C14794-7
System Origin: England-EASy
Source Film Number: 1067107
BUT at last !!!!!
Name: George Hollingby
Gender: Male
Baptism/Christening Date: 09 Feb 1831
Baptism/Christening Place: Saint Nicholas, Brighton, Sussex, England
Father's Name: George Hollingby
Mother's Name: Sarah
Indexing Project (Batch) Number: C02104-9
System Origin: England-EASy
Source Film Number: 1067108
Reference Number: item 2 p 160
and little Grace...
Grace Humphrey Hollingsbury
Gender: Female
Baptism/Christening Date: 21 Jun 1835
Baptism/Christening Place: St. Nicholas', Brighton, Sussex, England
Mother's Name: Ann Hollingsbury
Indexing Project (Batch) Number: C02171-4
System Origin: England-EASy
Source Film Number: 1067108
Reference Number: item 4 p 267 -
Message 13
Posted by Tourmie (U13798934) on Tuesday, 20th December 2011
His wife is only 20 in 1871 so they can't have been married long.
This isn't a good match with the name and maybe too early but
Marriages Jun 1866 (>99%)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
HEMSLEY George Brighton 2b 314
Osborn Ann Brighton 2b 314
Palmer Sarah B Brighton 2b 314
SMITH John E Brighton 2b 314 -
Message 14
Posted by jc (U1902680) on Tuesday, 20th December 2011
one more for the collection...
Elizabeth Goodwin Hollingsbury
Gender: Female
Baptism/Christening Date: 23 Oct 1816
Baptism/Christening Place: St. Nicholas, Brighton, Sussex, England
Father's Name: James Hollingsbury
Mother's Name: Grace Hollingsbury
Mother's Birthplace:
Mother's Age:
Indexing Project (Batch) Number: C00923-4
System Origin: England-EASy
Source Film Number: 1468812
Reference Number: p. 49, no. 387
Didn't see George senior though -
Message 15
Posted by Tourmie (U13798934) on Tuesday, 20th December 2011
Aha so little Grace did come from Ann! And our George belongs to a George and Sarah bingo.
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Message 16
Posted by Pheno (U14601115) on Tuesday, 20th December 2011
My you have all been busy whilst I've been out Christmas shopping!
I will try FMP for some Army details for George.
Thanks for all the other details too, some of which I already had.
The baptism of George Hollingby to George & Sarah in 1831 is a good find but I need evidence that George senior is a son of James & Grace. I wonder whether both of the other 1851 grandsons William and James can be attributed to George and Sarah too - that might help.
Here's a thought, I wonder if the confusion over George junior's place of birth was because George senior might have been born in Kent? Father James seems to have been born between 1785-1789 in Sandgate Kent so I suppose George senior could have been born there (and also I guess just because George junior seems to have been baptised Brighton he doesn't have to have been born Brighton!).
Thanks to all, Pheno -
Message 17
Posted by Tourmie (U13798934) on Tuesday, 20th December 2011
Just for interest there's a James here in 1881 (is that him down twice?) born Dover Kent living Brighton. One of the census for George had Dover Kent so could be a link there.
James HORNSBURY Head M Male 33 Dover, Kent, England
Elizabeth HORNSBURY Wife M Female 33 Brighton, Sussex, England Fish Hawker
James HORNSBURY Head M Male 33 Dover, Kent, England Fisherman
ames W. HORNSBURY Son Male 10 Brighton, Sussex, England Scholar
Edward HORNSBURY Son Male 6 Brighton, Sussex, England Scholar
Arthur HORNSBURY Son Male 4 Brighton, Sussex, England Scholar -
Message 18
Posted by Tourmie (U13798934) on Tuesday, 20th December 2011
Marriage for those two
Marriages Sep 1870 (>99%)
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Carr Elizabeth Brighton 2b 315
Gurney Charles Brighton 2b 315
HORNSBERY James Brighton 2b 315
Richardson Ernest Brighton 2b 315
Smith Elizabeth Brighton 2b 315 -
Message 19
Posted by Tourmie (U13798934) on Tuesday, 20th December 2011
This could be death of George
Deaths Dec 1879 (99%)
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Hornsbury George 46 Brighton 2b 141
and his young widow in 1881 with 3 children. Grace seems to be a name that follows through the family.
Annie HORNSBERRY Head W Female 27 Brighton, Sussex, England Laundress
Grace HORNSBERRY Daugh Female 9 Brighton, Sussex, England Scholar
Eliza HORNSBERRY Daugh Female 7 Brighton, Sussex, England Scholar
Annie HORNSBERRY Daugh Female 4 Brighton, Sussex, England Scholar
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