Family TreesΜύ permalink
brick wall before i start
This discussion has been closed.
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Message 1.Μύ
Posted by ianb (U15034374) on Monday, 14th November 2011
My wife is trying to start her family tree but has hit a brick wall already her mothers parents were a William henry petty who appears to have married a marion theresa price, we found a marraige for them in 1913 in qubec in canada but no ages quoted all it states is of age. we know fom 1915 they were living in wales as all children appear to have been born in bridgend in cardiff. we did email canada who advised the details we have is there marraige certificate can someone tell us how we are ever going to find out when William henry petty was born or who his parents were as this is also not shown on the paperwork we have traced we do know on my wifes mothers certificate that he was a ships fireman in the merchant navy. william henry appears to have died between 1932 and 1947 as per Wfes mums marraige certificate but the two deaths we have found in wales do not relate. it seems a shame to stop our quest before we have started, any help would be much appreciated.
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Message 2
Posted by jc (U1902680) on Monday, 14th November 2011
hmmm.. do you have the Canadian marriage cert? the Canadian marriage entries usually give both parents names.
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Message 3
Posted by jc (U1902680) on Monday, 14th November 2011
0k, I see this is where you got the info from
Quebec Vital and Church Records (Drouin Collection), 1621-1967
catholic records. There must be a civil document to match with the parents names on it
well... it states they were both of full age, which means over 21 and William H Petty was an Electrician. -
Message 4
Posted by ianb (U15034374) on Monday, 14th November 2011
hmmm.. do you have the Canadian marriage cert? the Canadian marriage entries usually give both parents names.
Μύ all i traced on line was just a print stating william henry petty of the cite of quebec, electrician a batchelor and marion theresa price of the same place, spinster both of full age were married by banns on the sixteenth day of august in the year of our lord one thousand nine hundred and thirteen by me A Balfour archdeacon of quebec. when i emailed quebec re this an emailed them a copy of the above they told me this was the marrage certificate which i thought was strange as now parent details are quoted. -
Message 5
Posted by ianb (U15034374) on Monday, 14th November 2011
thats correct the strange thing is that when i asked qubec re this they told me this was the certificate. if this is not the case how we would obtain the correct certificate from the uk.
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Message 6
Posted by jc (U1902680) on Monday, 14th November 2011
have you checked out this lady on the UK 1911 census?
PRICE MARION THERESA F 1891 20 living in St Marylebone London
there are several possible Marions on the passenger lists
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Message 7
Posted by glenton74 (U6667751) on Monday, 14th November 2011
I was wondering, if William was an electrician when he married, and then is described as a merchant seaman on later certificates when did the change of occupation occur?
If he was in Wales in 1915, what did he do in WW1? Was he in the merchant fleets then or had he joined one of the services? It may give you another way to search. -
Message 8
Posted by jc (U1902680) on Monday, 14th November 2011
ok... one to check out
1901
Name: William H Petty
Age: 9
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1892
Relation: Son
Father's Name: Henry Petty
Mother's Name: Hannah Petty
Gender: Male
Where born: Plumstead, Kent, England
Civil parish: South Shoebury
Ecclesiastical parish: St Andrew
Town: Shoeburyness
County/Island: Essex
Country: England
Street Address:
Occupation:
Condition as to marriage:
Education:
Employment status: View image
Registration district: Rochford
Sub-registration district: Great Wakering
ED, institution, or vessel: 5
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 67
Piece: 1686
Folio: 36
Page Number: 10
Household Members: Name Age
Henry Petty 32 <<< master mariner
Hannah Petty 29
William H Petty 9 born Plumstead
Mabel G Petty 7
Lilian Petty 8 Months
Johanne Hadaway 54
by 1911 he is in Wales
Name: William Henry Petty
Age in 1911: 19
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1892
Relation to Head: Boarder
Gender: Male
Birth Place: Plumstead, Kent, England
Civil parish: Carmarthen St Peter
County/Island: Carmarthenshire
Country: Wales
Street Address: The Laining Cottage Carmarthen
Marital Status: Single
Occupation: Student Scholastic
Registration district: Carmarthen
Registration District Number: 599
Sub-registration district: Carmarthen
ED, institution, or vessel: 07
Household schedule number: 257
Piece: 33041
if he was in the navy then he's not likely to appear on any passenger lists -
Message 9
Posted by ianb (U15034374) on Monday, 14th November 2011
i have been doing my search around wales, as married in quebec 1913 but in 1915 was in wales with all ther chidren born there 1915,1922,1927,1932. i never thought she may have been in london, i presumed she was canadian. i will check this but its the elusive mr willian henry petty i am determined to track down.
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Message 10
Posted by jc (U1902680) on Monday, 14th November 2011
this is the official site for Canadian certificates
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Message 11
Posted by jc (U1902680) on Monday, 14th November 2011
I have checked the canadian 1901 and 1911 census and nothing is coming up for either of them.
One possibility is that William Petty could possibly be William Pettite seeing that Quebec is the French speaking part of Canada. But I'm sure your wife would have known if her grandfather was a french speaking Canadian -
Message 12
Posted by ianb (U15034374) on Monday, 14th November 2011
all rather odd this as 1913 described as an electrician on wifes birth 1928 shows ships fireman merchant navy. on wifes marraige 1947 shows same occupation but deceased. the strange thing is on her brothers certificate of 1932 he states his fathers occupation as general labourer. something is not right ??
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Message 13
Posted by jc (U1902680) on Monday, 14th November 2011
possibly the reason why you can't find a death for William Henry is perhaps they divorced or he ran off?
remarriage... back in London again!
Name: Marion T Petty
Spouse Surname: Brine
Date of Registration: Jan-Feb-Mar 1937
Registration district: Willesden
Inferred County: Middlesex
Volume Number: 3a
Page Number: 758
George W J Brine
death
Name: Marion Theresa Brine
Birth Date: 17 May 1892
Date of Registration: Apr-May-Jun 1974
Age at Death: 82
Registration district: Hendon
Inferred County: Middlesex
Volume: 13
Page: 0493 -
Message 14
Posted by clematised (U3233879) on Monday, 14th November 2011
there are two people on genes reunited with a William Petty born 1891 Plumstead Kent , tree owners are Rosemary and Jacqueline
Both of these members also have Mabel
Genes reunited . co . uk cost about Β£10 for 6 months and you can contact tree owners if they are still active
Edna -
Message 15
Posted by ianb (U15034374) on Monday, 14th November 2011
many thanks for this info based on the dates he would be between 40 to 55 when he died, i know the two records for deaths between 1932 and 1947 in wales do not relate to our henry from emails i have received back from the relevant registery offices. it look like he may have died outside of wales. i need to keep digging until i can hopefully find a death which may have been registers by his wife
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Message 16
Posted by clematised (U3233879) on Monday, 14th November 2011
there are two people on genes reunited with a William Petty born 1891 Plumstead Kent , tree owners are Rosemary and Jacqueline
Both of these members also have Mabel
Genes reunited . co . uk cost about Β£10 for 6 months and you can contact tree owners if they are still active
EdnaΜύ I have notified both people mentioned here of your thread on this site so you may hear more from both if they are still active on genes reunited so keep checking back here.
Edna -
Message 17
Posted by ianb (U15034374) on Monday, 14th November 2011
more complications then, if she was born in london odd why the would both go to canada to get married and the come back to wales, canada told me the same no trace of them there, i would love to see who do you think you are trying to sort this one out, my family i have traced back to 1653 with not halve the amount of trouble. many thanks for all the information you have supplied i will just keep chipping away at this. my mission is to solve this or die trying.
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Message 18
Posted by jc (U1902680) on Monday, 14th November 2011
Sorry about the delay, just made a cuppa and managed to throw it over the laptop! I have managed to kill the mouse but at least saved the laptop and external hard drive!
we all have one stubburn brick wall, which usually arises from someone in the past not quite telling the truth! Even my poor little grandaughter who is only two can't have a great grandfather as there is a change of spelling in 1928! It does make you wonder what the big secrets were!
I gather that your wife didn't know him at all then, or his wife? -
Message 19
Posted by jc (U1902680) on Monday, 14th November 2011
Edna, William H Petty b 1891 Plumstead, also appears on several trees on Ancestry but only his birth and baptism... none of them have any details later than that
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Message 20
Posted by clematised (U3233879) on Monday, 14th November 2011
OK nothing lost then and they may come and check out your info here.
another one for marymog
Edna -
Message 21
Posted by ianb (U15034374) on Monday, 14th November 2011
the problem is my wifes mother never ever spoke about her family so this is the problem i will have to try and obtain the marraige certificate from canada and hopefully this will tie in with the info you supplied
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Message 22
Posted by clematised (U3233879) on Monday, 14th November 2011
No image available Search collectionAbout this collectionName: William Petty
Event: Marriage
Event Date: 26 Oct 1874
Event Place: , Llangynwyd, Glamorgan, Wales
Gender: Male
Age:
Marital Status: Widowed
Father: George Petty
Spouse: Hannah Edwards
Spouse's Marital Status: Widowed
Spouse's Father: William David
Digital Folder Number: 004173995
Image Number: 00159
There is this one in Glamorgan
Edna -
Message 23
Posted by clematised (U3233879) on Monday, 14th November 2011
Name: William Petty
Event: Marriage
Event Date: 24 Sep 1865
Event Place: , Llangynwyd, Glamorgan, Wales
Gender: Male
Age:
Marital Status: Single
Father: George Petty
Spouse: Mary Edwards
Spouse's Marital Status: Single
Spouse's Father: Daniel Edwards
Digital Folder Number: 004174056
Image Number: 00141
No image available Search collectionAbout this collectionName: William Henry Petty
Event: Marriage
Event Date: 23 Sep 1895
Event Place: , Llangynwyd, Glamorgan, Wales
Gender: Male
Age: 24y
Marital Status: Single
Father: William Petty
Spouse: Mary Ann Hughes
Spouse's Marital Status: Single
Spouse's Father: David Hughes
Digital Folder Number: 004174011
Image Number: 00155
and another
Edna -
Message 24
Posted by jc (U1902680) on Monday, 14th November 2011
just for info, just incase it turns out that they divorced.
The Marion remarried in willsden
death.. just a stones throw away
Name: William H Petty
Birth Date: abt 1893
Date of Registration: Jul-Aug-Sep 1956
Age at Death: 63
Registration district: Hendon
Inferred County: Middlesex
Volume: 5e
Page: 359 -
Message 25
Posted by rollingstones (U15034529) on Monday, 14th November 2011
Hello.
I have just checked the Find My Past Merchant Navy records.
There is a William H Petty born 1893 Sunderland. A fireman in the merchant navy.
It states on his discharge book that he died of malaria 19-9-1935 in hospital in Corunna.
I hope this is of help. -
Message 26
Posted by jc (U1902680) on Monday, 14th November 2011
ah! explains why there is no suitable deaths for him in the UK
thank you Rollingstones...I'm sure the OP will be happy with that when he comes back -
Message 27
Posted by ianb (U15034374) on Monday, 14th November 2011
Hi Rollingstones.
this sounds like it could be the right person which i will need to look into further, if his children all born in wales from 1915 up to 1932 was he still in the navy.
many thanks for this info -
Message 28
Posted by clematised (U3233879) on Monday, 14th November 2011
Have a look here for his records
Edna -
Message 29
Posted by glenton74 (U6667751) on Monday, 14th November 2011
Just to throw in another twist. I cannot find William H Petty born Sunderland in 1893. However one born in 1883 turns up in Barry in 1901 and is a dock labourer.
1901 Wales Census
Name: William Petty
Age in 1901: 18
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1883
Relation: Lodger
Gender: Male
Where born: Sunderland
Civil parish: Barry
Ecclesiastical parish: Barry
Town: Barry
County/Island: Glamorgan
Country: Wales
Street Address: 1, Churchill Terrace
Condition as to marriage: single
Occupation: Dock labourer
Registration district: Cardiff
Sub-registration district: St Nicholas
ED, institution, or vessel: 2
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 60
Piece: 4992
Folio: 36
Page Number: 15
Household Members: Name Age
Oliver Parker 60
Mary Parker 49
Oliver Parker 23
William Petty 18 -
Message 30
Posted by silvery (U8422462) on Tuesday, 15th November 2011
Are there any aunts/uncies, cousins in the wider family that perhaps would have a bit more information, names etc ? -
Message 31
Posted by jc (U1902680) on Tuesday, 15th November 2011
Here is the link to the National Archives information leaflets for MERCHANT SEAMEN after 1917
and before 1917
I must admit, I couldn't find a William Petty from Sunderland with the correct birth year, there was one from Aukland co Durham but would need to check that one out. -
Message 32
Posted by jc (U1902680) on Tuesday, 15th November 2011
The only William Petty in the merchant navy who wsa granted campaign medals during WWI, was a William James Petty born Freemantle 1883. I don't think that is him
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Message 33
Posted by ianb (U15034374) on Tuesday, 15th November 2011
i have emailed canada again and received a reply back with a different email address. the new one supplied i have already contacted they advied the information i have is the marraige certificate. surely canadian certificates would contain the the parents details on them. also do you need to obtain a ref number like we do over here
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Message 34
Posted by ianb (U15034374) on Tuesday, 15th November 2011
Hi Edna, I did look on there but could not find him. not sure if i was looking in the right place, it appearss he shows on the find my past site but i am not a member so i will probably not be able to see this info.
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Message 35
Posted by rollingstones (U15034529) on Wednesday, 16th November 2011
Hi ianb
Further to me post re William H petty on Find My Past. I have found him again on Find My Past, this time as William H Pitty. I am sorry that you cannot view his records as yet. However I have carried on researching him and found that he is probably William H Petty born Sunderland 1883. The record given as finding him in Barry are correct. His parents also appear to be on the 1901 census living in Barry. Their names are William Henry and Isabella.
There are also two trees on Ancestry both of which confirm my findings.
One of the ships he was on was called the Helmsdale which paid off in Penarth.Which is where some of his siblings were born.
Would love to be able to help you see his records, but I have no idea how too.
Jan -
Message 36
Posted by ianb (U15034374) on Wednesday, 16th November 2011
Hi jan
Many thanks for this info, if only i could get more info from canada regarding his marraige to marion theresa price in 1913 then i would know which william h is correct, im chasing 3 different people at the moment. all the canadian record shows that i found was that he was of age so no idea of his age if he was born 1883 then he would have been 30 when he married, some nine years older than marion. the form the canadian have sent me to fill in are 5 pages long and do not appear to be as straight forward as our requests are in the uk. i am now thinking of giving up this search as it seems impossible to be 100% certain i will every track down the correct william henry
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