Family TreesÌý permalink
Looking for baptism for HELENA CLARK, Hilborough Norfolk
This discussion has been closed.
-
Message 1.Ìý
Posted by Meggiesmum (U14595845) on Sunday, 23rd October 2011
Hello everyone
Just wondering if any can help us in locating a baptism for the above mentioned lady? According to the IGI Index she has a birth date of 1720, although this has been pointed out as a submitted extract therefore not completely accurate.
From the information we have been given we know that she married Thomas Jackson, in Hilborough on 29 September 1736 and their eldest child, Robert was born around 1737. She died on 17 February 1781, although we don't know how old she was.
With help we have found that Thomas was baptised in Hilborough church on November 23rd 1712 to parents Thomas and Ann (nee Dobbs) Jackson. We also know that Thomas and Ann were married on 2 October 1707.
I was wondering if anyone could help in locating Helena for us or finding an age on death/burial that would help us find the generation preceeding Thomas and Helena?
Thanks in advanceLink to this forum: Looking for baptism for HELENA CLARK, Hilborough Norfolk
-
Message 2
Posted by BoothHunter (U14812392) on Sunday, 23rd October 2011
Hillborough is nr. Thetford - may be this is your lady?
clark
England Births and Christenings, 1538-1975
christening: 16 May 1723 St. Mary,​ Thetford,​ Norfolk,​ England
residence: Thetford,​ Norfolk,​ England
parents: Roger Clark,​ Susan Clark
name: Clark
gender: Female
baptism/christening date: 16 May 1723
baptism/christening place: St. Mary, Thetford, Norfolk, England
father's name: Roger Clark
mother's name: Susan Clark
indexing project (batch) number: I04247-5
system origin: England-EASy
source film number:Link to this forum: Looking for baptism for HELENA CLARK, Hilborough Norfolk
-
Message 3
Posted by BoothHunter (U14812392) on Sunday, 23rd October 2011
Jackson links
Jackson links
Dobbs links
Link to this forum: Looking for baptism for HELENA CLARK, Hilborough Norfolk
-
Message 4
Posted by BoothHunter (U14812392) on Sunday, 23rd October 2011
Here are lots of contacts for Norfolk Clark/es:
happy hunting
BH
Link to this forum: Looking for baptism for HELENA CLARK, Hilborough Norfolk
-
Message 5
Posted by Meggiesmum (U14595845) on Sunday, 23rd October 2011
Hillborough is nr. Thetford - may be this is your lady?
clark
England Births and Christenings, 1538-1975
christening: 16 May 1723 St. Mary,​ Thetford,​ Norfolk,​ England
residence: Thetford,​ Norfolk,​ England
parents: Roger Clark,​ Susan Clark
name: Clark
gender: Female
baptism/christening date: 16 May 1723
baptism/christening place: St. Mary, Thetford, Norfolk, England
father's name: Roger Clark
mother's name: Susan Clark
indexing project (batch) number: I04247-5
system origin: England-EASy
source film number:Ìý Its a good find but the ages don't quite match up.... If she was christened in May she could possibly have been born 1722, which would have made her 13/14 at marriage and I believe that age of consent was 16.
Its possible but I doubt that this is our Helena although she may not have been christened as a baby but in those days I would imagine this was qute unusual.
Thank you anyway.Link to this forum: Looking for baptism for HELENA CLARK, Hilborough Norfolk
-
Message 6
Posted by BoothHunter (U14812392) on Sunday, 23rd October 2011
I'm not convinced that there was a 'legal' age of consent during this era? It may well have been a 'shotgun' marriage I think it was around 1753 when Hardwickes marriage act stated a consensual age limit was 16? Anyone enlighten us?
I think there are Royal betrothals that happened at 8 or 9? Bear in mind life was shorter then - people lived shorter lives although yes - many lived long ones. Of my research i have found the average age for marriage during the 1800's is about 19/20 and during the 1700's average 16-20...your Helena might be an exception ? Actually have you tried looking for 'Elena' rather than Helena? I will have a search for you now...
BHLink to this forum: Looking for baptism for HELENA CLARK, Hilborough Norfolk
-
Message 7
Posted by BoothHunter (U14812392) on Sunday, 23rd October 2011
ok a couple more but different area of Norfolk:
Clark
England Births and Christenings, 1538-1975
christening: 09 Nov 1718 Wretton,​ Norfolk,​ England
residence: Wretton,​ Norfolk,​ England
parents: John Clark,​ Dorothy
name: ... Clark
gender: Female
baptism/christening date: 09 Nov 1718
baptism/christening place: Wretton, Norfolk, England
father's name: John Clark
mother's name: Dorothy
indexing project (batch) number: I07512-6
system origin: England-EASy
source film number:
-----------------------
Hellen Clark
England Births and Christenings, 1538-1975
christening: 27 Feb 1710 St. Martin at Oak Church,​ Norwich,​ Norfolk,​ England
residence: Norwich,​ Norfolk,​ England
parents: John Clark,​ MarthaLink to this forum: Looking for baptism for HELENA CLARK, Hilborough Norfolk
-
Message 8
Posted by BoothHunter (U14812392) on Sunday, 23rd October 2011
This is an intersting find me thinks: two John Clarks born within days of each other registered at Diss - which includes Hilsborough/Thetford etc.
fyi(Diss and Thetford are on the A1066)
Maybe one of these John Clark's is Helena's father?
John Clark
England Births and Christenings, 1538-1975
christening: 11 Dec 1696 Diss,​ Norfolk,​ England
residence: Diss,​ Norfolk,​ England
parents: Thomas Clark,​ Mary
name: John Clark
gender: Male
baptism/christening date: 11 Dec 1696
baptism/christening place: Diss, Norfolk, England
father's name: Thomas Clark
mother's name: Mary
indexing project (batch) number: I04140-0
system origin: England-EASy
source film number: 1596390
John Clark
England Births and Christenings, 1538-1975
christening: 14 Dec 1696 Diss,​ Norfolk,​ England
residence: Diss,​ Norfolk,​ England
parents: ... Clark,​ Sarah
name: John Clark
gender: Male
baptism/christening date: 14 Dec 1696
baptism/christening place: Diss, Norfolk, England
father's name: ... Clark
mother's name: Sarah
indexing project (batch) number: I04140-0
system origin: England-EASy
source film number:Link to this forum: Looking for baptism for HELENA CLARK, Hilborough Norfolk
-
Message 9
Posted by Meggiesmum (U14595845) on Sunday, 23rd October 2011
Her death I think was found under elena/Eleanor - tried a search under Eleanor for this reason but nothing came up - at the moment am relying on free search websites so a bit limited really!
The John Clarks are interesting and could certainly be her father, as you say Diss is close by.
As for a shotgun wedding it is quite possible, As far as I know from the research I have (not completed by me but by my mum's late cousin's husband) their eldest child was born 1737 although I don't know which month - so could be shotgun then again it could also not be.
Would anyone be able to do a search for a Robert Jackson born around 17317, also died 1737 in Hilbrough? If this can be found it would tell us whether Helena was pregnant at the time of marriage.Link to this forum: Looking for baptism for HELENA CLARK, Hilborough Norfolk
-
Message 10
Posted by Meggiesmum (U14595845) on Sunday, 23rd October 2011
Forget that - he died 1787 - can't read my own handwriting.
Anyway just did an IGI search and found a christening for him on 14 Sept 1737 in Hilbrough so I guess the wedding wasn't a shotgun on after all.Link to this forum: Looking for baptism for HELENA CLARK, Hilborough Norfolk
-
Message 11
Posted by clematised (U3233879) on Sunday, 23rd October 2011
Genuki is usually the best place to look for a parish and will give lots of information about the area and you can also check all the surrounding parishes from this link too.
I have a rellie going back to a marriage at fourteen in Anglesey 1830s, sometimes the family could not afford to feed all the children so married off the daughter young
EdnaLink to this forum: Looking for baptism for HELENA CLARK, Hilborough Norfolk
-
Message 12
Posted by Meggiesmum (U14595845) on Sunday, 23rd October 2011
I'm liking the Wretton one - have just checked the map and it doesn't seem too far from Hilborough so is quite possible I suppose. This date would also be closer in date to the baptism date of Thomas in 1712.
I know that my line moved from Hilborough to Barton Bendish in the next generation. Helena's son thomas married a girl from Barton Bendish and ended up settling there.
I've followed a previous link using the Norfolk surnames and have sent emails to a few people in the hope that Helena may be one of their ancestors.Link to this forum: Looking for baptism for HELENA CLARK, Hilborough Norfolk
-
Message 13
Posted by jc (U1902680) on Sunday, 23rd October 2011
don't forget it might have been a late baptism and not done as a small babe.
I recently found a date in Aug 1820 where it looks like the local curate had rounded up the whole village and baptised the lot! Just one day! there were all ages listed on the registers. I wondered whether there was an outbreak of Cholera /Typhod or something to make them do that.
You do really need to see the registers as the curate often gave an age for the child if the baptism was not done to a newbornLink to this forum: Looking for baptism for HELENA CLARK, Hilborough Norfolk
-
Message 14
Posted by clematised (U3233879) on Sunday, 23rd October 2011
scroll down to England Norfolk
# England, Norfolk Archdeacon's Transcripts, 1600-181218 Jan 2011Browse Images
# England, Norfolk Bishop's Transcripts, 1685-19418 Apr 2011Browse Images
# England, Norfolk Marriage Bonds, 1557-191518 Jan 2011Browse Images
# England, Norfolk Monumental Inscriptions, 1600-1900's18 Jan 2011Browse Images
# England, Norfolk Non-conformist Records, 1613-190118 Jan 2011Browse Images
# England, Norfolk Parish Registers, 1538-190030 Mar 2010Browse Images
# England, Norfolk Poor Law Union Records, 1796-19008 Apr 2011Browse Images
# England, Norfolk Register of Electors, 1844-195218 Jan 2011Browse Images
# England, Northumberland, Miscellaneous Records, 1705-1950
You can browse through the actual images here as long as you can find the correct one you need, I found the Poor Law Union records interesting to read.
EdnaLink to this forum: Looking for baptism for HELENA CLARK, Hilborough Norfolk
-
Message 15
Posted by Meggiesmum (U14595845) on Monday, 24th October 2011
scroll down to England Norfolk
# England, Norfolk Archdeacon's Transcripts, 1600-181218 Jan 2011Browse Images
# England, Norfolk Bishop's Transcripts, 1685-19418 Apr 2011Browse Images
# England, Norfolk Marriage Bonds, 1557-191518 Jan 2011Browse Images
# England, Norfolk Monumental Inscriptions, 1600-1900's18 Jan 2011Browse Images
# England, Norfolk Non-conformist Records, 1613-190118 Jan 2011Browse Images
# England, Norfolk Parish Registers, 1538-190030 Mar 2010Browse Images
# England, Norfolk Poor Law Union Records, 1796-19008 Apr 2011Browse Images
# England, Norfolk Register of Electors, 1844-195218 Jan 2011Browse Images
# England, Northumberland, Miscellaneous Records, 1705-1950
You can browse through the actual images here as long as you can find the correct one you need, I found the Poor Law Union records interesting to read.
·¡»å²Ô²¹Ìý Edna
Thanks for those superb links - busy trawling through the parish registers for Hilborough and whilst I haven't found Helena yet (beginning to suspect that she didn't come from Hilborough originally) I have possibly found her husband Thomas, my direct ancestor and his parents and siblings. It would be good to think that this is him, although no real way of proving it (only link is that he had siblings John, Elizabeth among others and he named some of his children these names too - although realise that these were fairly common names).
Right better get back to it.......Link to this forum: Looking for baptism for HELENA CLARK, Hilborough Norfolk
-
Message 16
Posted by clematised (U3233879) on Monday, 24th October 2011
English naming patterns can usually be followed, not actual proof but can help
EdnaLink to this forum: Looking for baptism for HELENA CLARK, Hilborough Norfolk
-
Message 17
Posted by Meggiesmum (U14595845) on Monday, 24th October 2011
Well I've trawled through them right through to their marriage and he's the only Thomas Jackson born in that timescale.
No Helena though - really don't think she was born/baptised in Hilborough after all.Link to this forum: Looking for baptism for HELENA CLARK, Hilborough Norfolk
-
Message 18
Posted by clematised (U3233879) on Monday, 24th October 2011
I added a Norfolk site to your other thread earlier take a look at it and it has searchable PRs
EdnaLink to this forum: Looking for baptism for HELENA CLARK, Hilborough Norfolk
-
Message 19
Posted by BoothHunter (U14812392) on Monday, 24th October 2011
Hello everyone
Just wondering if any can help us in locating a baptism for the above mentioned lady? According to the IGI Index she has a birth date of 1720, although this has been pointed out as a submitted extract therefore not completely accurate.
From the information we have been given we know that she married Thomas Jackson, in Hilborough on 29 September 1736 and their eldest child, Robert was born around 1737. She died on 17 February 1781, although we don't know how old she was.
With help we have found that Thomas was baptised in Hilborough church on November 23rd 1712 to parents Thomas and Ann (nee Dobbs) Jackson. We also know that Thomas and Ann were married on 2 October 1707.
I was wondering if anyone could help in locating Helena for us or finding an age on death/burial that would help us find the generation preceeding Thomas and Helena?
Thanks in advance Ìý I just remembered that the area of Norfolk you are searching touches the Suffolk borders...it might help you with your search if you start looking for Suffolk births as well.
fyi The Peddars way starts at Knettishall heath Suffolk (about 5 miles from Thetford/Diss) and this area has lots of little villages...
BHLink to this forum: Looking for baptism for HELENA CLARK, Hilborough Norfolk
-
Message 20
Posted by raundsgirl (U2992430) on Monday, 24th October 2011
That naming pattern was not always followed. I am currently transcribing baptisms from the place in East Northants where was born. In the 1700s it seems quite definitely first son named after the father, first daughter after the mother. You then get a situation where the eldest son and his wife start a family whilst the parents are still having children, and you end up with several men having the same name, although then the vicar has to distinguish between them, usually by occupation or abode, which does give more informaton than you would otherwise get.Link to this forum: Looking for baptism for HELENA CLARK, Hilborough Norfolk
-
Message 21
Posted by Meggiesmum (U14595845) on Monday, 24th October 2011
Well I have as far as I can work out:
Eldest son - named after oldest paternal brother
Eldest daughter - named after oldest paternal sister
2nd son - named after father and grandfather
3rd son - named after maternal grandfather (if I have it right)
So no pattern really!!!!
Only pattern that there seems to be is that all the children are named after paternal brothers/sister!Link to this forum: Looking for baptism for HELENA CLARK, Hilborough Norfolk
-
Message 22
Posted by BoothHunter (U14812392) on Monday, 24th October 2011
English Naming Patterns
1st Son -------------------------- Father's Father
2nd Son ------------------------- Mother's Father
3rd Son ---------------------------------- Father
4th Son ------------------ Father's Eldest Brother
1st Daughter --------------------- Mother's Mother
2nd Daughter --------------------- Father's Mother
3rd Daughter ------------------------------ Mother
4th Daughter --------------- Mother's Eldest Sister
and so forth.
Original Author Unknown.
A logical version ?
BHLink to this forum: Looking for baptism for HELENA CLARK, Hilborough Norfolk
-
Message 23
Posted by Meggiesmum (U14595845) on Tuesday, 25th October 2011
ok a couple more but different area of Norfolk:
Clark
England Births and Christenings, 1538-1975
christening: 09 Nov 1718 Wretton,​ Norfolk,​ England
residence: Wretton,​ Norfolk,​ England
parents: John Clark,​ Dorothy
name: ... Clark
gender: Female
baptism/christening date: 09 Nov 1718
baptism/christening place: Wretton, Norfolk, England
father's name: John Clark
mother's name: Dorothy
indexing project (batch) number: I07512-6
system origin: England-EASy
source film number:
-----------------------
Hellen Clark
England Births and Christenings, 1538-1975
christening: 27 Feb 1710 St. Martin at Oak Church,​ Norwich,​ Norfolk,​ England
residence: Norwich,​ Norfolk,​ England
parents: John Clark,​ Martha
Ìý Could anyone possibly look further in the records to see if there arre any more siblings or a record of a marraige at Wretton? At least that way if there is a wedding for Helena then I can discount her. If not then she remains a possibility.Link to this forum: Looking for baptism for HELENA CLARK, Hilborough Norfolk
-
Message 24
Posted by clematised (U3233879) on Tuesday, 25th October 2011
Here are the clark/clarke baptisms at Wretton over three pages but nothing for your lady
EdnaLink to this forum: Looking for baptism for HELENA CLARK, Hilborough Norfolk
-
Message 25
Posted by clematised (U3233879) on Tuesday, 25th October 2011
The marriage just says Norwich Norfolk and that batch number only gives a few years either side so no clues there.
It could be possible that she had a previous marriage and her birth name was not clark
EdnaLink to this forum: Looking for baptism for HELENA CLARK, Hilborough Norfolk
-
Message 26
Posted by Meggiesmum (U14595845) on Tuesday, 25th October 2011
No she was single - this is stated on the marraige entry in the Hilborough parish register.
Link to this forum: Looking for baptism for HELENA CLARK, Hilborough Norfolk
-
Message 27
Posted by BoothHunter (U14812392) on Tuesday, 25th October 2011
No she was single - this is stated on the marraige entry in the Hilborough parish register.Ìý Ok here is another one to add to the mix! Pakenham is about 20 miles from Hilsborough...what do you think?
BH
Ellen Clark
England Births and Christenings, 1538-1975
christening: 02 Oct 1721 PAKENHAM,​SUFFOLK,​ENGLAND
residence: Suffolk,​ England
parents: William Clark,​ Ellen
name: Ellen Clark
gender: Female
baptism/christening date: 02 Oct 1721
baptism/christening place: PAKENHAM,SUFFOLK,ENGLAND
father's name: William Clark
mother's name: Ellen
indexing project (batch) number: P01266-1
system origin: England-ODM
source film number:Link to this forum: Looking for baptism for HELENA CLARK, Hilborough Norfolk
-
Message 28
Posted by Meggiesmum (U14595845) on Tuesday, 25th October 2011
A possibility I guess. Not sure how it could be proved. Why oh why couldn't they have written father's names down in the register like they do now days? It would make things so much simpler!!!!
Link to this forum: Looking for baptism for HELENA CLARK, Hilborough Norfolk
-
Message 29
Posted by BoothHunter (U14812392) on Tuesday, 25th October 2011
A possibility I guess. Not sure how it could be proved. Why oh why couldn't they have written father's names down in the register like they do now days? It would make things so much simpler!!!!Ìý and relax....
when I have days like this - BRICKWALLERS! I drop everything and distract myself - sometimes when it's difficult to fathom the lineage I start all over again - just in case I have missed anything! You might see a bit of info' you have overlooked...
Now...
lets start again...
BHLink to this forum: Looking for baptism for HELENA CLARK, Hilborough Norfolk
About this Board
The History message boards are now closed. They remain visible as a matter of record but the opportunity to add new comments or open new threads is no longer available. Thank you all for your valued contributions over many years.
or Ìýto take part in a discussion.
The message board is currently closed for posting.
The message board is closed for posting.
This messageboard is .
Find out more about this board's
Search this Board
Â鶹ԼÅÄ iD
Â鶹ԼÅÄ navigation
Â鶹ԼÅÄ links
Â鶹ԼÅÄ Â© 2014 The Â鶹ԼÅÄ is not responsible for the content of external sites. Read more.
This page is best viewed in an up-to-date web browser with style sheets (CSS) enabled. While you will be able to view the content of this page in your current browser, you will not be able to get the full visual experience. Please consider upgrading your browser software or enabling style sheets (CSS) if you are able to do so.