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John Cooper - How many wives?

• Message 1.Β 

  Posted by Pheno (U14601115) on Monday, 10th October 2011

  I have this entry from 1911
  
  COOPER, John Head Married M 65 1846 Gardener Jobbing Walsop Harfordshire
  COOPER, Annie Wife Married 43 years F 55 1856 At Βι¶ΉΤΌΕΔ Chington Worcestershire
  COOPER, Alfred Son Single M 38 1873 Brass Presser Wicken Essex
  RG number:
  RG14 Piece:
  18119 Reference:
  RG14PN18119 RG78PN1098 RD384 SD4 ED16 SN175
  
  Registration District:
  Birmingham Sub District:
  St Martin Enumeration District:
  16 Parish:
  Birmingham
  
  Address:13 Court 2 House Sun St Birmingham County:Warwickshire
  although John's birthplace should read Wallop, Hampshire
  
  but I cannot trace who Annie is.
  
  I have this entry for 1871 for 1 year old James Cooper whom I believe is the above John's eldest child
  
  James Cooper
  Age: 1
  Estimated Birth Year: abt 1870
  Relation: L;Gs
  Gender: Male
  Where born: Nether Wallop, Hampshire, England
  Civil parish: Nether Wallop
  County/Island: Hampshire
  Country: England
  Registration district: Stockbridge
  Sub-registration district: Broughton
  ED, institution, or vessel: 8
  Household schedule number: 80
  Piece: 1205
  Folio: 109
  Page Number: 13
  Household Members:
  Name Age
  James Cooper 65
  Elizabeth Cooper 48
  Emily Cooper 13
  Walter Cooper 10
  Jane Cooper 26 described as daughter in law born Farley, Wiltshire
  James Cooper 1 described as grandson
  
  
  Source Citation: Class: RG10; Piece: 1205; Folio: 109; Page: 13; GSU roll: 827819.
  
  John Cooper (son to James & Elizabeth above) I believe to be this individual visiting in Ealing in 1871
  
  John Cooper
  Age: 25
  Estimated Birth Year: abt 1846
  Relation: Visitor
  Gender: Male
  Where born: Wallop, Hampshire, England
  Civil parish: Ealing
  Ecclesiastical parish: St Mary
  County/Island: Middlesex
  Country: England
  Registration district: Brentford
  Sub-registration district: Brentford
  ED, institution, or vessel: 8
  Household schedule number: 26
  Piece: 1318
  Folio: 32
  Page Number: 9
  Household Members:
  Name Age
  James Holden 36
  Elizabeth Holden 35
  James Holden 12
  Elizabeth Holden 9
  Lucy Holden 7
  George Thompson 11
  Edmund Cole 30
  John Cooper 25 described as Gardener married
  James H Hrickland 30
  
  
  Source Citation: Class: RG10; Piece: 1318; Folio: 32; Page: 9; GSU roll: 838783.
  
  My problem is that in 1911 John states that he and wife Annie have been married 43 years and have had 5 children, all of whom are still alive.
  
  If he and Annie have been married 43 years then they must have married c. 1868 but he appears to be married to someone called Jane in 1871.
  
  Are they one and the same person do you think? (although Jane and Annie appear to have different birthplaces and different birthdates) and if so who is that person? And if they are not the same person where is Annie in 1871? and who is Jane?
  
  Help please. Thanks, Pheno

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• Message 2

  , in reply to message 1.

  Posted by Tourmie (U13798934) on Monday, 10th October 2011

  Just an initial thought but Jane as daughter in law - could she be married to another son ie not be Johns wife but one of his brothers (if he had any?)
  

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• Message 3

  , in reply to message 1.

  Posted by Tourmie (U13798934) on Monday, 10th October 2011

  Hang on a minute looking at the 1911 entry they can't have been married 43 years if Annie was born in 1856 - that would make her 12 at best

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• Message 4

  , in reply to message 3.

  Posted by Mabel Bagshawe (U2222589) on Monday, 10th October 2011

  
  1881
  
  Name: John Cooper
  Age: 35
  Estimated Birth Year: abt 1846
  Relation: Head
  Gender: Male
  Where born: Gosport, Hampshire, England
  
  Civil parish: Birmingham
  County/Island: Warwickshire
  Country: England
  
  Street Address: 18 St Lukes Squ St Lukes Rd
  Condition as to marriage: Married
  Education:
  
  Employment status:
  
  View image
  Occupation: Gardener N D
  
  Registration district: Birmingham
  Sub-registration district: St Martin
  ED, institution, or vessel: 1
  Neighbors: View others on page
  Piece: 2980
  Folio: 23
  Page Number: 39
  Household Members:
  Name Age
  John Cooper 35 - gardener, widow [?]
  Charlotte Cooper 31 - sister
  James Cooper 11 - b Fareham
  George Cooper 9 - b Ealing
  Alfred Cooper 6 - b wicken

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• Message 5

  , in reply to message 4.

  Posted by Mabel Bagshawe (U2222589) on Monday, 10th October 2011

  1891 - suggests a marriage between 1881 and 1883/4
  
  Name: Alfred Cooper
  Age: 16
  Estimated Birth Year: abt 1875
  Relation: Son
  Father's Name: John Cooper
  Mother's Name: Annie Cooper
  Gender: Male
  Where born: Wicken Bonhunt, Essex, England
  
  Civil parish: Birmingham
  Ecclesiastical parish: St Thomas
  Town: Birmingham
  County/Island: Warwickshire
  Country: England
  
  Street Address:
  
  Occupation:
  
  Condition as to marriage:
  
  Education:
  
  Employment status:
  
  View image
  
  Registration district: Birmingham
  Sub-registration district: St Thomas
  ED, institution, or vessel: 24
  Neighbors: View others on page
  Piece: 2378
  Folio: 78
  Page Number: 2
  Household Members:
  Name Age
  John Cooper 43
  Annie Cooper 22 - Eckington, worcester
  James Cooper 21 - b Wallop
  George Cooper 19 - Ealing
  Alfred Cooper 16
  Ernest Cooper 8 - b Birmingham
  Sidney Cooper 4 - b Birmingham
  Harry Sims 22 - boarder
  
  
  Annie may be 33 - she's a bit young for an 8 year old here!

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• Message 6

  , in reply to message 4.

  Posted by glenton74 (U6667751) on Monday, 10th October 2011

  Annie has appeared by 1891
  1891 England Census
  Name: John Cooper
  Age: 43
  Estimated Birth Year: abt 1848
  Relation: Head
  Spouse's Name: Annie Cooper
  Gender: Male
  Where born: Wallop, Hampshire, England
  
  Civil parish: Birmingham
  Ecclesiastical parish: St Thomas
  Town: Birmingham
  County/Island: Warwickshire
  Country: England
  Registration district: Birmingham
  Sub-registration district: St Thomas
  ED, institution, or vessel: 24
  Neighbors: View others on page
  Piece: 2378
  Folio: 78
  Page Number: 1
  Household Members: Name Age
  John Cooper 43
  Annie Cooper 33 born eckington worcestershire, a herbalist.
  James Cooper 21
  George Cooper 19
  Alfred Cooper 16
  Ernest Cooper 8
  Sidney Cooper 4
  Harry Sims 22
  
  
  

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• Message 7

  , in reply to message 5.

  Posted by Mabel Bagshawe (U2222589) on Monday, 10th October 2011

  Possible?
  
  Marriages Jun 1888 (>99%)
  BEARDS Thirza Birmingham 6d 268 Scan available - click to view
  Bryan Annie Birmingham 6d 268 Scan available - click to view
  COOPER John Birmingham 6d 268 Scan available - click to view
  JENKINS Thomas Birmingham 6d 268

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• Message 8

  , in reply to message 7.

  Posted by Pheno (U14601115) on Tuesday, 11th October 2011

  Thanks for all the replies.
  
  Oops I hadn't done my maths Tourmie and realised that she couldn't have been the same wife for 43 years. I guess John has answered the 1911 question of marriage and children as relating to him generally rather than this marriage specifically.
  
  I had decided that there must be a second marriage somewhere but hadn't been able to put my finger on it Mabel, thanks. Will follow Annie Bryan back and see if she was born Worcestershire way to confirm that this is the correct one.
  
  Thanks, Pheno

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• Message 9

  , in reply to message 8.

  Posted by Pheno (U14601115) on Tuesday, 11th October 2011

  Right, well that didn't take long - I now need the assistance of you super sleuths again.
  
  I can't find a single Annie Bryan on the 1881 census born Eckington, Worcestershire about 1858 and, I assume, living Birmingham way. I've cursorily looked at all the previous censuses too and can't find an Annie Bryan.
  
  Is she a widow then when she marries John Cooper in 1883?
  
  If so, I'm not sure of the best way of going about finding the Mr. ? Bryan who married Annie ? and who had died before 1883.
  
  Any suggestions please?
  
  Thanks, Pheno

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• Message 10

  , in reply to message 9.

  Posted by Mabel Bagshawe (U2222589) on Tuesday, 11th October 2011

  I would suggest having a look at this person - guess who she's living next door to on 1881!!
  
  Name: Annie Vernon
  Age: 25
  Estimated Birth Year: abt 1856
  Relation: Visitor
  Gender: Female
  Where born: Eccington, Worcestershire, England
  
  Civil parish: Birmingham
  County/Island: Warwickshire
  Country: England
  
  Street Address: 19 St Lukes Squ St Lukes Rd
  Education:
  
  Employment status:
  
  View image
  Occupation: Nurse (Dom)
  
  Registration district: Birmingham
  Sub-registration district: St Martin
  ED, institution, or vessel: 1
  Neighbors: View others on page
  Piece: 2980
  Folio: 23
  Page Number: 39
  Household Members:
  Name Age
  Mary Ann White 39
  Mary A. E. White 15
  Sarah White 14
  William White 12
  Flora White 10
  Ada White 6
  Walter J. White 4
  Albert B. White 3
  Alice M. White 1
  Annie Vernon 25

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• Message 11

  , in reply to message 10.

  Posted by Pheno (U14601115) on Tuesday, 11th October 2011

  Brilliant Mabel - look what I found!
  
  Name: VERNON, Sarah Annie
  Registration District: Kings Norton
  County: Worcestershire
  Year of Registration: 1881
  Quarter of Registration: Apr-May-Jun
  Volume No: 6C
  Page No: 595
  MarriageFinderβ„Ά: Sarah Annie Vernon married one of the following people
  
  
  COOPER, John
  
  CROMPTON, John Charles
  
  I know we had this entry for John Cooper but what made you go back to it to look for a clue?
  
  Thanks, Pheno

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• Message 12

  , in reply to message 10.

  Posted by Mabel Bagshawe (U2222589) on Tuesday, 11th October 2011

  How about this one?
  
  Marriages Jun 1881 King's N. 6c 595 (>99%)
  Cooper John <<
  CROMPTON John Charles
  HULME Florence Annie
  VERNON Sarah Annie <<
  
  There's a Sarah Annie Vernon regsitered b Pershore 1856. By 1871 she's working in Aston
  
  Name: Sarah Vernon
  Age: 4
  Estimated Birth Year: abt 1857
  Relation: Daughter
  Father's Name: Thomas Vernon
  Mother's Name: An Vernon
  Gender: Female
  Where born: Eckington, Worcestershire, England
  
  Civil parish: Eckington
  County/Island: Worcestershire
  Country: England
  
  Registration district: Pershore
  Sub-registration district: Eckington
  ED, institution, or vessel: 4
  Neighbors: View others on page
  Household schedule number: 68
  Piece: 2104
  Folio: 45
  Page Number: 13
  Household Members:
  Name Age
  Thomas Vernon 50
  An Vernon 33
  William Vernon 16
  Sarah Vernon 4
  Jane Vernon 3
  Ellen Vernon 2
  Frederick Willis 12
  Thomas Meredith 28

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• Message 13

  , in reply to message 12.

  Posted by Mabel Bagshawe (U2222589) on Tuesday, 11th October 2011

  I was actually looking at Anns/Annies from Eckington and opened the 1881 to see John Cooper!

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• Message 14

  , in reply to message 11.

  Posted by Pheno (U14601115) on Tuesday, 11th October 2011

  Even better - Sarah Annie Vernon was born c.1856 in Eckington, Worcs and living there in 1861.
  
  I guess I made the assumption that John would have married in Birmingham as that is where he was living both before and after marriage. I would probably even have assumed that, after knowing that he married Annie Vernon, as she was living in Birmingham too. Obviously the 'go back to the wife's home town to be married' scenario still held true then.
  
  Thanks, Pheno

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