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Burial Record

• Message 1. 

  Posted by Frogspawn4 (U12759417) on Monday, 10th October 2011

  Can anyone tell me why it would have 'by order from Secretary of State' on a burial record at St John, Wapping
  
  Sarah Frances Rebecca Aguilar buried Jan 30th 1861 aged 19
  
  It's not a direct line ancestor- but I am tying up some loose ends on my Debonnaire branch
  
  Many thanks
  
  Jay

  Link to this forum: Burial Record

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• Message 2

  , in reply to message 1.

  Posted by jc (U1902680) ** on Monday, 10th October 2011

  Have you bought the death cert to find out what she died of?
  
  The only thing I can think of is that her death was under suspious circumstances hence the order of the Secretary of State.... thats only a guess though.

  Link to this forum: Burial Record

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• Message 3

  , in reply to message 2.

  Posted by Frogspawn4 (U12759417) on Monday, 10th October 2011

  Hi jc
  
  I haven't got the cert. As it's not direct line, I'm trying not to spend too much. My curiosity might get the better of me though!
  
  Thanks for the suggestion.
  
  Jay

  Link to this forum: Burial Record

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• Message 4

  , in reply to message 1.

  Posted by dmatt47 (U13073434) on Monday, 10th October 2011

  This is very odd, there are 4 consecutive burials (including Sarah's) all ordered by the Secretary of State and there seems to be no link. It might help if we knew where these people were originally buried.

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• Message 5

  , in reply to message 4.

  Posted by vron (U7555028) on Monday, 10th October 2011

  the only thing i can think of is that it is to do with this - which appears to say burials within st johns wappings will be dicontinued but at the bottom it says burials in private graves and vaults being preserved in some cases. perhaps teh four burials were ones allowed after the normal closure time of the graveyard but needing special permission
  
  Closing of Burial Grounds
  
  
  By orders in council, dated the 25th of November, which appears in Tuesday’s Gazette, burials must be wholly discontinued from the 6th December next in the parishes of St. Botolph, Billingsgate, and St. George, Botolph-lane; in the church-yards of the parishes of St. Mildred-the-Virgin and St. Mary Colechurch; in the parishes of St Martin Outwich and of Allhallows-on-the-Wall; in the burial-grounds of St. Michael Bassishaw and Christchurch, Newgate-street, with St Leonard, Foster-lane; in the churchyard and vaults of St. John, Wapping; in Sheen’s New Burial-ground, Whitechapel, in which burials have already taken place; in the London Hospital burial-ground; in the vaults under Holy Trinity, Southwark; in New Bunhill-fields Cemetery, in the part already buried in; in the vaults under the Wesleyan Chapel, Deverell Street; in the City Bunhill-fields burial-ground; in St. Mary, Battersea; in All Souls, Fulham, in that part in which burials have taken place within the last 20 years; in St Mary, North-end, except under certain restrictions; in the Dutch Reformed Church, Austinfriars; in St Barnabas, Kensington; in the Neckinger burial-ground; in Southwark Chapel and ground; in St. John’s, Clerkenwell; in Benjamin-street burial-ground; under Greenwich-road Chapel; under St Mary, Rotherhithe; in Cristchurch, Rotherhithe; in Stepney Meeting burial-ground; in St. John’s New burial-ground, Horselydown; under St. Anne’s Limehouse; in Salem Chapel burial-ground; in Enon Chapel burial-ground; under Queen-street Chapel, in St Anne’s Limehouse; in St. Peter-ad-Vineals; in Old Gravel-lane Chapel burial-ground, in Gibraltar burial-ground; in and under St. Nicholas, Deptford; under St. Paul, Deptford; in and under High-street Chapel; in and under the Wesleyan Chapel, Mary Ann’s-buildings; in the Quaker burial-ground; in the General Baptist burial-ground, Church-street; under Holy Trinity, Brompton; in Stockwell New Chapel burial-ground; in the burial-ground of and under the City-road Chapel; in Bunhill-fields burial-ground; under St. Mary’s, Stratford-le-Bow; in the East London Cemetery, and under Brunswick Chapel, Stepney; in East-hill burial-ground, Wandsworth; in the ground and under the Roman Catholic Chapel, Moorfields; and in Putney parish church. It is further ordered that burials be discontinued in the churchyard of St. Peter’s, Hammersmith at the end of 12 months; in the churchyard of All Saints, Poplar; of the Roman Catholic burial-ground, Wade-street; in Sheen’s burial-ground wholly, and in various other grounds enumerated on the 1st of April next year. Other burial places will be closed within various periods in this and in the ensuing year. Burials in All Son’s Roman Catholic Cemetery must be discontinued within five years, and restrictions are placed on the burial of more than one body in one grave in the great majority of those burial-grounds which are allowed to exist in future, the rights of family burial in private graves and vaults being, however, in several instances preserved.
  
  
  
  Taken from The Times, 1 December 1853

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• Message 6

  , in reply to message 5.

  Posted by vron (U7555028) on Monday, 10th October 2011

  and again
  
  VI Saving of certain Rights to bury in Vaults, &c
  Burial Act 1852
  1852 CHAPTER 85
  
  ..Provided always, that notwithstanding any such Order in Council, where by virtue of any Faculty legally granted, or by Usage or otherwise, there is at the Time of the passing of this Act any Right of Interment in or under any Church or Chapel affected by such Order, or in any Vault of any such Church or Chapel, or of any Churchyard or Burial Ground affected by such Order, and where any exclusive Right of Interment in any such Burial Ground has been purchased or acquired before the passing of this Act, it shall be lawful for One of Her Majesty's Principal Secretaries of State from Time to Time, on Application being made to him, and on being satisfied that the Exercise of such Right will not be injurious to Health, to grant Licence for the Exercise of such Right during such Time and subject to such Conditions and Restrictions as such Secretary of State may think fit, but such Licence shall not prejudice or in anywise affect the Authority of the Ordinary, or of any other Person who, if this Act had not been passed, might have prohibited or controlled Interment under such Right, nor dispense with any Consent which would have been required, nor otherwise give to such Right any greater Force or Effect than the same would have had if this Act had not been passed.
  

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• Message 7

  , in reply to message 6.

  Posted by Frogspawn4 (U12759417) on Monday, 10th October 2011

  Hi vron & Dmatt
  
  Thanks for your replies.
  
  dmatt - I had only just noticed that there were other burials that also had Sec of State approval - my glasses are due for a change!!
  
  Thank you for the details that you found vron. I'll maybe have a look at Sarah's family - her full maiden name was Sarah Frances Rebecca Burgess - I might be able to find out if her family had a vault or large burial plot at St John's which was why they got permission from the Sec of State.
  
  Thanks again for your help.
  
  Jay

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• Message 8

  , in reply to message 6.

  Posted by Jowin1 (U1940449) on Monday, 10th October 2011

  All four burials took place after 1853 - 1854, 1861, 1869 and 1881.
  
  The 1881 one - Thomas Barrett aged 88 is on the 1881 census and was a retired builder. So nothing special.
  
  My thoughts would be that there was a family vault and special permission had been granted following the closure.
  
  Though my interest is piqued

  Link to this forum: Burial Record

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• Message 9

  , in reply to message 8.

  Posted by raundsgirl (U2992430) on Monday, 10th October 2011

  This has been such an interesting thread to follow! It struck a chord with me because I have a notebook in which the local doctor (who was also the town's M.O.H. in the early 1900s) wrote his reports to the Council. In 1911 he was urging them to open a Municipal Cemetery as soon as possible:
  
  "The question of a Burial Ground must be considered as soon as possible, as there is no doubt that the Church-yard is much overcrowded, and has been so for a long time.
  Many gruesome relics are exposed when new graves are dug, and very few burials take place without bones being dug up and re-interred. Only last week the head and other parts of a child who had been buried in 1894 were dug up as well as adult leg-bones; in this case the child’s head and hair were not much decomposed, and the coffin-plate was thrown up, with the age, date and name quite decipherable, and the body which was to be buried in the same grave, had no relation to the family whose child was unearthed.
  I consider the question of a new Cemetery urgent, and hope that a Committee may be appointed to investigate and report upon the matter as soon as possible."
  

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• Message 10

  , in reply to message 9.

  Posted by Frogspawn4 (U12759417) on Tuesday, 11th October 2011

  Thank you jowin and raunds for your comments.
  
  It must have been an awful job for the grave diggers of the time.
  Interestingly I haven't come across any Census occupations of 'grave diggers' during my research. Were they called something else in those days or perhaps it was only a 'second job' and not the one that was recorded on the census forms
  
  Thanks all for yor help.
  
  Jay
  

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