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Coltman help
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Message 1.Μύ
Posted by MrGrinch-Champion of the Middle Saxons (U1934518) on Tuesday, 4th October 2011
Hi all,
I'm trying to trace Joseph Folly Coltman through the census'. He was born in 1893 in brentford reg district. His father was charles coltman and mother alice folly. Any help finding them on the 1891 and 1901 much appreciated.
Cheers
G -
Message 2
Posted by Bashfuljan157 (U5893214) on Tuesday, 4th October 2011
1901 Charles is born Denton , Durham and is a Carpenter and Joiner Alice born Hayes. The Freeborns are boarders
Name: Joseph Collman
[Joseph Coltman]
Age: 8
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1893
Relation: Son
Father's Name: Charles Collman
Mother's Name: Alice Collman
Gender: Male
Where born: Grumersbury, Middlesex, England
Civil parish: Wandsworth
Ecclesiastical parish: St Anne
County/Island: London
Country: England
Street Address:
Occupation:
Condition as to marriage:
Education:
Employment status: View image
Registration district: Wandsworth
Sub-registration district: Wandsworth
ED, institution, or vessel: 23
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 143
Piece: 484
Folio: 16
Page Number: 24
Household Members: Name Age
Charles Collman 39
Alice Collman 34
Lilian Collman 10
Joseph Collman 8
William Collman 6
Dorothy Collman 4
George Collman 2
Emily Freeborn 21
Lilian E Freeborn 6 Months
Source Citation: Class: RG13; Piece: 484; Folio: 16; Page: 24. -
Message 3
Posted by Bashfuljan157 (U5893214) on Tuesday, 4th October 2011
Name: Allice Folly
Age: 22
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1868
Spouse Name: Charles Coltman ( Carpenter )
Spouse Age: 28
Record Type: Marriage
Marriage Date: 19 Aug 1890
Parish: St James, Gunnersbury
County: London
Borough: Hounslow
Father Name: William Folly Foreman Brewer
Spouse Father Name: Joseph Coltman Carpenter -
Message 4
Posted by Bashfuljan157 (U5893214) on Tuesday, 4th October 2011
Name: Joseph Folly Coltman
Age: 27
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1894
Spouse Name: Edith Jane Wright
Spouse Age: 29
Record Type: Marriage
Marriage Date: 26 Dec 1921
Parish: St Andrew, Earlsfield
County: Surrey
Borough: Wandsworth
Father Name: Charles Coltman
Spouse Father Name: Robert Wright -
Message 5
Posted by dmatt47 (U13073434) on Tuesday, 4th October 2011
1901 Charles is born Denton , Durham and is a Carpenter and Joiner Alice born Hayes. The Freeborns are boarders
Name: Joseph Collman
[Joseph Coltman]
Age: 8
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1893
Relation: Son
Father's Name: Charles Collman
Mother's Name: Alice Collman
Gender: Male
Where born: Grumersbury, Middlesex, England
Civil parish: Wandsworth
Ecclesiastical parish: St Anne
County/Island: London
Country: England
Street Address:
Occupation:
Condition as to marriage:
Education:
Employment status: View image
Registration district: Wandsworth
Sub-registration district: Wandsworth
ED, institution, or vessel: 23
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 143
Piece: 484
Folio: 16
Page Number: 24
Household Members: Name Age
Charles Collman 39
Alice Collman 34
Lilian Collman 10
Joseph Collman 8
William Collman 6
Dorothy Collman 4
George Collman 2
Emily Freeborn 21
Lilian E Freeborn 6 Months
Source Citation: Class: RG13; Piece: 484; Folio: 16; Page: 24.
Μύ The birth for Lillian in the return for 1901 is actually Gunnersbury. According to the 1891 census her name was Lillian Lucy Coltman and she was born in Chiswick, very close to Gunnersbury, but her father's name is down as Charles Coltman. -
Message 6
Posted by Bashfuljan157 (U5893214) on Tuesday, 4th October 2011
Name: Charles Coltman
Age: 27
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1864
Relation: Head
Spouse's Name: Alice Coltman
Gender: Male
Where born: Denton, Durham, England
Civil parish: Chiswick
Ecclesiastical parish: Gunnersbury St James
Town: Chiswick
County/Island: Middlesex
Country: England
Street Address:
Occupation:
Condition as to marriage:
Education:
Employment status: View image
Registration district: Brentford
Sub-registration district: Chiswick
ED, institution, or vessel: 15
Neighbors: View others on page
Piece: 1034
Folio: 152
Page Number: 9
Household Members: Name Age
Charles Coltman 27
Alice Coltman 24
Lillian Lucy Coltman 8/12
Source Citation: Class: RG12; Piece: 1034; Folio 152; Page 9; GSU roll: 6096144 -
Message 7
Posted by Bashfuljan157 (U5893214) on Tuesday, 4th October 2011
Looking at the original again , the marriage year is 1920 NOT 1921 , However , it appears it is short lived as I've found this
Deaths Mar 1921 (>99%)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Coltman Edith J 29 Wandsworth 1d 471
and a remarriage for Joseph in Dec 1921
Marriages Dec 1921 (>99%)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Coltman Joseph F Eyers Wandsworth 1d 1405
Eyers Ann Coltman Wandsworth 1d 1405 -
Message 8
Posted by Bashfuljan157 (U5893214) on Tuesday, 4th October 2011
LMA transcribers must have had a bad day !!! , as the original for Charles and Alices marriage says quite clearly year 1889 NOT 1890
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Message 9
Posted by Bashfuljan157 (U5893214) on Tuesday, 4th October 2011
LMA / Ancestry transcribers must have had a bad day !!! , as the original for Charles and Alices marriage says quite clearly year 1889 NOT 1890
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Message 10
Posted by MrGrinch-Champion of the Middle Saxons (U1934518) on Tuesday, 4th October 2011
Brilliant info thanks.
Who was Alice Folly's father ? She says William but im not so sure. On the 1881, she was living with Lucy Folly and Alice Davies. She was shown as a niece. I think Lucy went onto to Mary Arthur Penrose.
I think Alice born 1867 is the illegitmate daughter of Lucy Folly. Can anyone have a look on earlier census to check ?
G -
Message 11
Posted by Bashfuljan157 (U5893214) on Tuesday, 4th October 2011
Her middle name may be a clue as to fathers surname Emma could be Lucy Emma/Emma Lucy ,
Name: Alice Butler Folly
Record Type: Baptism
Estimated Birth Date: abt 1866
Baptism Date: 7 Oct 1866
Mother's Name: Emma Folly
Parish or Poor Law Union: Hayes
Borough: Hillingdon
1871
Name: Alice Folley
[Alice Folly]
Age: 4
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1867
Relation: Niece
Gender: Female
Where born: Hayes, Middlesex, England
Civil parish: St Giles in The Fields
Ecclesiastical parish: St Giles in the Fields
Town: London
County/Island: London
Country: England
Registration district: St Giles
Sub-registration district: St Giles, North
ED, institution, or vessel: 2
Household schedule number: 296
Piece: 348
Folio: 44
Page Number: 42
Household Members: Name Age
Samuel Pugh 47
Alice Pugh 34
Alice Folley 4
Source Citation: Class: RG10; Piece: 348; Folio: 44; Page: 42; GSU roll: 824607. -
Message 12
Posted by MrGrinch-Champion of the Middle Saxons (U1934518) on Tuesday, 4th October 2011
Thanks for that.
I have Alice Folly marrying Samuel Davies not Samuel Pugh. Is Pugh right ?
G -
Message 13
Posted by Bashfuljan157 (U5893214) on Tuesday, 4th October 2011
Name: Alice Folly
Age: 14
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1867
Relation: Niece
Gender: Female
Where born: Hayes, Middlesex, England
Civil parish: Chiswick
County/Island: Middlesex
Country: England
Street Address: 2 Gunnersbury Place
Education:
Employment status: View image
Registration district: Brentford
Sub-registration district: Chiswick
ED, institution, or vessel: 6
Neighbors: View others on page
Piece: 1351
Folio: 51
Page Number: 11
Household Members: Name Age
Arthur Penrose 33
Alice Davis 44 widow
Eliza Davis 2
Lucy Folly 34
Alice Folly 14
Source Citation: Class: RG11; Piece: 1351; Folio: 51; Page: 11; GSU -
Message 14
Posted by MrGrinch-Champion of the Middle Saxons (U1934518) on Tuesday, 4th October 2011
Does it say where Samuel is born ?
G -
Message 15
Posted by Bashfuljan157 (U5893214) on Tuesday, 4th October 2011
The 1871 original definitely says Pugh for Samuel and Alice , his occupation is cab owner , as on the marriage cert for Samuel Davies . 1861 census has him as Samuel Pugh born St Pancras and a cab proprietor ...........
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Message 16
Posted by Bashfuljan157 (U5893214) on Tuesday, 4th October 2011
1861 Note the Emma Folly ( who was mentioned on Alice(1866) baptism )
Name: Lucy E Folly
Age: 14
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1847
Relation: Daughter
Father's Name: Thomas Folly
Mother's Name: Harriot Folly
Gender: Female
Where born: Hayes, Middlesex, England
Civil parish: Hayes
County/Island: Middlesex
Country: England
Street Address:
Occupation:
Condition as to marriage: View image
Registration district: Uxbridge
Sub-registration district: Hayes
ED, institution, or vessel: 5
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 76
Piece: 769
Folio: 68
Page Number: 14
Household Members: Name Age
Thomas Folly 56
Harriot Folly 58
Charles Folly 27
Emma Folly 18
Lucy E Folly 14
Source Citation: Class: RG9; Piece: 769; Folio: 68; Page: 14; GSU roll: 542698. -
Message 17
Posted by MrGrinch-Champion of the Middle Saxons (U1934518) on Tuesday, 4th October 2011
Alice was Emma's and not Lucy's. I remember now.
This Pugh thing is weird though ?
G -
Message 18
Posted by MrGrinch-Champion of the Middle Saxons (U1934518) on Thursday, 6th October 2011
Following on from this, Alice Davies nee Folly married for a 2nd time. This two George Etchings in 1881 at Westminster.
Can anyone have a look to see where they were on the 1891 ?
regards
G -
Message 19
Posted by MrGrinch-Champion of the Middle Saxons (U1934518) on Thursday, 6th October 2011
Also, i think their Daughter Eliza Etches Davies marries in Brentford Reg District in 1898. She marries under Eliza Etches though. Does she appear with new hub on the 1901 ?
G -
Message 20
Posted by Mabel Bagshawe (U2222589) on Friday, 7th October 2011
Name: Alice Etches
Age: 55
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1836
Relation: Wife
Spouse's Name: George Etches
Gender: Female
Where born: Hayes, Middlesex, England
Civil parish: Chiswick
Ecclesiastical parish: Gunnersbury St James
Town: Chiswick
County/Island: Middlesex
Country: England
Registration district: Brentford
Sub-registration district: Chiswick
ED, institution, or vessel: 15
Neighbors: View others on page
Piece: 1034
Folio: 164
Page Number: 34
Household Members: Name Age
George Etches 70 - retired licensed victuallar b Ashbourne Derbyshire
Alice Etches 55
Eliza Etches 12 - b Chiswick
George Etches 9 - b Chiswick
Edwin Etches 7 - b Chiswick -
Message 21
Posted by Mabel Bagshawe (U2222589) on Friday, 7th October 2011
Name: Edwin Etches
Record Type: Baptism
Estimated Birth Date: abt 1883
Baptism Date: 22 May 1883
Father's Name: George Etches
Mother's Name: Alice Etches
Parish or Poor Law Union: Turnham Green
Borough: Hounslow -
Message 22
Posted by MrGrinch-Champion of the Middle Saxons (U1934518) on Friday, 7th October 2011
Brilliant Thanks.
Been doing a bit of digging myself. Very interesting.
Alice Folly was actually a barmaid in the 1861 census at George Etches pub. She then marries Samuel Davies (Pugh). When Samuel dies, she must start up a relationship with the widowed George. Eliza Etches Davies was born three years befire they eventually marry in 1881. George is 25 years her senior.
G -
Message 23
Posted by MrGrinch-Champion of the Middle Saxons (U1934518) on Friday, 7th October 2011
Following on then from this. Both Alice and George have died by the 1901 census.
Can anyone have a look to see where George Jnr and Edwin are ?
Also Eliza Etches Davies marries in 1898. Under Etches as a surname. Could anyone have a look for her ?
Any help appreciated.
Regards
G -
Message 24
Posted by Bashfuljan157 (U5893214) on Friday, 7th October 2011
1901 Edward is a Hackney Carriage Driver , born Pyrford Surrey Eliza and brothers born Gunnersbury , george is a barman , Edwin appears to be 'living on own means'
Name: Eliza Morley
Age: 22
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1879
Relation: Wife
Spouse's Name: Edward Morley
Gender: Female
Where born: Pyrford, Surrey, England
Civil parish: Chiswick
Ecclesiastical parish: Gunnersbury St James
County/Island: Middlesex
Country: England
Street Address:
Occupation:
Condition as to marriage:
Education:
Employment status: View image
Registration district: Brentford
Sub-registration district: Chiswick
ED, institution, or vessel: 20
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 210
Piece: 1200
Folio: 114
Page Number: 31
Household Members: Name Age
Edward Morley 31
Eliza Morley 22
George Etcher 19
Edwin Etcher 19
Amy Wheeler 18 -
Message 25
Posted by MrGrinch-Champion of the Middle Saxons (U1934518) on Friday, 7th October 2011
cheers
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Message 26
Posted by Mabel Bagshawe (U2222589) on Friday, 7th October 2011
Name: Edwin Etches
Birth Date: abt 1884
Date of Registration: Jan-Feb-Mar 1934
Age at Death: 50
Registration district: Barnet
Inferred County: Middlesex
Volume: 3a
Page: 659
Here he is on 1911 - Brentford Middlesex. He's a barman at the Red Lion, in Brentford High St. Apparently single
BOXALL LOUISA EMILY F 1871 40
BOXALL RICHARD M 1863 48
TRUMPER ELLEN F 1877 34
ETCHER EDWIN M 1883 28 -
Message 27
Posted by Mabel Bagshawe (U2222589) on Friday, 7th October 2011
George marries - he's also a cellerman
Name: George Etches
Age: 21
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1882
Spouse Name: Sarah Eliza Kenerson
Spouse Age: 21
Record Type: Marriage
Marriage Date: 21 Feb 1903
Parish: St James, Gunnersbury
County: London
Borough: Hounslow
Father Name: George Etches
Spouse Father Name: Edward Kenerson
His huosehold in 1911, by which time he is a hotel waiter
ETCHES GEORGE M 1882 29
ETCHES SARAH F 1882 29
ETCHES GEORGE M 1904 7
ETCHES ALFRED M 1905 6
ETCHES WINIFRED F 1910 9 MONTHS -
Message 28
Posted by MrGrinch-Champion of the Middle Saxons (U1934518) on Friday, 7th October 2011
thanks for that
Does it say where George Jnr is born in 1904 ?
Also where Sarah Kenerson is born ?
G -
Message 29
Posted by MrGrinch-Champion of the Middle Saxons (U1934518) on Sunday, 9th October 2011
Did you find them MB ?
G -
Message 30
Posted by Mabel Bagshawe (U2222589) on Sunday, 9th October 2011
sorry - board was closed when I saw your question and then forgot about it
ETCHES GEORGE M 1882 29 - hotel waiter, b Chiswick
ETCHES SARAH F 1882 29 - b Brentford
ETCHES GEORGE M 1904 7- b Chiswick
ETCHES ALFRED M 1905 6 - b Chiswick
ETCHES WINIFRED F 1910 9 MONTHS - b Chiswick
Street Address: 4 Pyrmont Road
Three children born to the marriage
Two of them make it onto the LMA baptisms
Name: Edward George Etches
Record Type: Baptism
Estimated Birth Date: abt 1903
Baptism Date: 17 May 1903
Father's Name: George Etches
Mother's Name: Sarah Etches
Parish or Poor Law Union: Old Brentford St George
Borough: Hounslow
address 17 Waldeck Road, father a barman
Name: Alfred Edwin Etches
Record Type: Baptism
Estimated Birth Date: abt 1905
Baptism Date: 5 Mar 1905
Father's Name: George Etches
Mother's Name: Sarah Eliza Etches
Parish or Poor Law Union: Old Brentford St George
Borough: Hounslow
Address 25 Herne [?] Road, Strand on the Green. Says father an electrician?? -
Message 31
Posted by MrGrinch-Champion of the Middle Saxons (U1934518) on Sunday, 9th October 2011
Brill
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Message 32
Posted by Bashfuljan157 (U5893214) on Sunday, 9th October 2011
ETCHES, George Head Married M 29 1882 Hotel Waiter Middlesex Chiswick
ETCHES, Sarah Wife Married
8 years F 29 1882 Middlesex Brentford
ETCHES, George Son M 7 1904 Middlesex Chiswick
ETCHES, Alfred Son M 6 1905 Middlesex Chiswick
ETCHES, Winifred Daughter F 0 (9 MONTHS) 1911 Middlesex Chiswick
4 Pyrmont Road Chiswick
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