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siblins or not ?
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Message 1.Μύ
Posted by Susan Ault (U14258375) on Monday, 29th August 2011
Hello all,
I wounder if any of you can throw a new light on my query please. I have my great x 2 grandfather Jeremiah Harrington on a 1861 census. He is living at 16 grays buildings portman sq marylebone. He is living with his mother Elizabeth harrington and a sister Sarah Plunket aged 17. I have jeremiahs marriage certificate and sarah plunket is on of his witnesses.
I believe i have the family again on a 1851 census living at a 9 white hind alley, st saviours surrey. Now here the family consists of a
Michael O'connor head 33 labourer county cork.
Elizabeth wife 40 county cork
Jaramiah harrington son in law 11 st saviours surrey
Sarah Planket daughter in law 7 st saviours surrey.
jeremiah states his father is a jeremiah on his marriage certificate, im so ancestored out after 12 years of reserch i cant work out who sarah plunket is.
I am so confused here any ideas please.
sue x -
Message 2
Posted by Bashfuljan157 (U5893214) on Monday, 29th August 2011
The term son in law and daughter in law , were used to denote step children , so in your findings it appears that Elizabeth had been married before
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Message 3
Posted by Tourmie (U13798934) on Monday, 29th August 2011
Yes I see the problem!
Jeremiah and Sarah appear to be brother and sister in both years don't they but why the different surnames.
Different fathers one assumes so how many husbands did Elizabeth have? They don't seem in the right order as Sarah is younger yet Jeremiah has the same surname as his mother and he is older
Maybe she was adopted from somewhere. -
Message 4
Posted by Tourmie (U13798934) on Monday, 29th August 2011
For info.
Births Mar 1844 (>99%)
Plunkett Sarah St. Saviour 4 506
Births Mar 1840 (>99%)
Harrington Jeremiah St. Saviours 4 471 -
Message 5
Posted by anisel (U1752839) on Monday, 29th August 2011
This seems to be the family in 1841, living in White Hind Alley. Elizabeth is shown as of independent means.
1841 England Census about Jumanah Hanington
Name: Jumanah Hanington
[Jeremiah Hanington]
Age: 1
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1840
Gender: Male
Where born: Surrey, England
Civil parish: St Saviour
Hundred: Southwark
County/Island: Surrey
Country: England
Registration district: St Saviour
Sub-registration district: St Saviour
Neighbors: View others on page
Piece: 1088
Book: 6
Folio: 31
Page Number: 12
Household Members:
Name Age
E Hanington 33
Mary Hanington 8
Margaret Hanington 11
Jumanah Hanington 1
Source Citation: Class: HO107; Piece 1088; Book: 6; Civil Parish: St Saviour; County: Surrey; Enumeration District: 13; Folio: 31; Page: 12; Line: 18; GSU roll: 474670. -
Message 6
Posted by Jowin1 (U1940449) on Monday, 29th August 2011
The same family aqre transcribed as Jeremiah Harrington on FMP. So not Elizabeth then. I am sure its the right family for Jeremiah.
Must be lots of marriages and remarriages for Elizabeth to have taken on Jeremiah by the age of 11.
Will take some time me thinks.
Jo -
Message 7
Posted by anisel (U1752839) on Monday, 29th August 2011
Possible death for Jeremiah senior:
Deaths Dec 1840
HARRINGTON Jeremiah St Saviours 4 38[6_] -
Message 8
Posted by Susan Ault (U14258375) on Monday, 29th August 2011
many thanks all quite a bit to be going on looks like i will have to send off for both birth certs and the death cert.
i will have a browse at the 1841 census thank you all of you for your help so far.
xxxxxxxxx
sue -
Message 9
Posted by Susan Ault (U14258375) on Monday, 29th August 2011
Well peeps
I have searched for a marriage of Elizabeth Harrington to a chap with the surname of O'connor. I have then checked for a marriage of a Harrington to a Plunkett and then an O'connor to a Plunkett.
Oh err ii have lost the plot.
sue x -
Message 10
Posted by Susan Ault (U14258375) on Tuesday, 30th August 2011
well I have exhausted marriages for Elizabeth harrington, I cant find any .
marriage for her and michael o'connor or to any one called plunkett. This is doing my head in, our Elizabeth could have been a bit of a girl.
sue x -
Message 11
Posted by Susan Ault (U14258375) on Tuesday, 30th August 2011
now mary and margret are in the frame i have now got to try to find them, this will only mean more late night and a job getting up in the mornings.
sue -
Message 12
Posted by JohnJensen (U6690738) on Tuesday, 30th August 2011
Presumably Harrington was Jeremiah's father's surname. Elizabeth's maiden name may well have been something else.
Could it be Stanning, arising from this marriage register entry from www.freebmd.org.uk? St Saviours appears to be an area of Croydon.
Surname First name(s) District Vol Page
Marriages Jun 1845
Bryant Henry Croydon 4 83
Carroll Catherine Croydon 4 83
O'Connor Michael Croydon 4 83
Pope Grace Croydon 4 83
Stanning Elizabeth Croydon 4 83
Stone Henry Croydon 4 83 -
Message 13
Posted by Bashfuljan157 (U5893214) on Tuesday, 30th August 2011
The St Saviours mentioned in previous posts is ST Saviours Southwark , a fair way from Croydon
Jerimiah's birth cert would give the maiden name -
Message 14
Posted by Susan Ault (U14258375) on Tuesday, 30th August 2011
My only option now is to send of for the death of jeremiah, also the birth of the yo.ng jeremiah and possibly that of his sister i have also found in st saviours. If none of them are connected i will settle for all the infomation I have so far. Sometimes my obsession with my family history makes me hungry for more and more infomation. But we are all the same are we not.
sue xx -
Message 15
Posted by Mabel Bagshawe (U2222589) on Tuesday, 30th August 2011
Name: Jeremiah Harrington
Record Type: Burial
Estimated Death Date: abt 1840
Burial Date: 20 Dec 1840
Age: 40
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1800
Parish or Poor Law Union: Southwark Christ Church
Borough: Southwark
County: Surrey
Abode is St Saviours
Does the age look right, given ex Mrs Harrington's age? -
Message 16
Posted by Mabel Bagshawe (U2222589) on Tuesday, 30th August 2011
this might be of interest - address is White Hart Court (similarity to address in 1851 is striking)
Name: Jeremiah Harrington
Record Type: Burial
Estimated Death Date: abt 1839
Burial Date: 5 Jan 1839
Age: 4
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1835
Parish or Poor Law Union: Bermondsey St Olave
Borough: Southwark
County: Surrey -
Message 17
Posted by JohnJensen (U6690738) on Wednesday, 31st August 2011
Oops, sorry. Didn't spot the Southwark reference in mesage 5.
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Message 18
Posted by Susan Ault (U14258375) on Wednesday, 31st August 2011
Yes this is a high possibility
I am sending off for a few certs, so i will keep you all posted.
thank you all what would I do without you xxxxxx
sue -
Message 19
Posted by Tourmie (U13798934) on Wednesday, 31st August 2011
I was puzzling over this one for some time last night but nothing sensible to add!
Yes please do keep us posted, I would like to know where Sarah Plunkett came from. -
Message 20
Posted by Susan Ault (U14258375) on Saturday, 10th September 2011
For info.
Births Mar 1844 (>99%)
Plunkett Sarah St. Saviour 4 506
Births Mar 1840 (>99%)
Harrington Jeremiah St. Saviours 4 471
Μύ Well I sent off for the birth of Jeremiah harrington 1840 st saviours, surrey.
Yes yes yes its my jeremiah his father jeremiah is a blacksmith, this is his occupation on his son jeremiah's marriage certificate. Also sent of for margret harrington 1837 st saviours and again her father is jeremiah blacksmith.
Their mother Elizabeth is either Elizabeth Cronin/ Cronan. I will send off now for the death of Jeremiah senior and the birth of the plunket child sarah, just to see where she fits in.
I am woundering if Jeremiah and Elizabeth may have married in ireland.
thank you all for all the help you have given me.xxxxxxx -
Message 21
Posted by Bashfuljan157 (U5893214) on Saturday, 10th September 2011
Glad it was the correct one ..........
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Message 22
Posted by jc (U1902680) on Saturday, 10th September 2011
the Jeremiah who died in 1840 St Saviours could have been this one married at Southwark St Saviours, found in the Pallots marriage index
Maria Davis
Spouse: Jeremiah Harrington
Spouse Comments: 132
Marriage Date: 1815
Parish: Southwark St Saviour
of course Maria may have died and Elizabeth Cronin being wife #2 -
Message 23
Posted by Mabel Bagshawe (U2222589) on Saturday, 10th September 2011
1815 is possily a bit early for a marriage fo someone b 1800?
Very long shot, given his widow says b County Cork
Name JEREMIAH HARRINGTON
Date of Birth N/R N/R N/R
Address N/R
Father JEREMIAH HARRINGTON
Mother ELLEN EGAN
Further details in the record
Sponsor 1 PATRICK LAUGHLIN
Sponsor 2 MARY MCCARTHY
Recorded Parochial Area ST. PETER & PAUL'S, CORK
About the record
Book Number Page Entry Number Record_Identifier Image Filename
N/R N/R N/R CR-RC-BA-258249 cork & ross.st. peter & paul's, cork.p4786.00032 -
Message 24
Posted by Susan Ault (U14258375) on Monday, 12th September 2011
Hiya,
This is one I will have to look into.
I will just say my harrington family are strange ones. My grandfather james john harrington 1900 was the eldest of possibly 14 or 16 children. It was always told james father Timothy harrington was from Tipperary. Nope he was from marylebone. Timothys mother mary ann moore states Ireland on all my censuses, obviously her husband the young 1840 jeremiah states surrey. I believe possibly jeremiah's father may have originated from Ireland all though I cant say either way.
The point is my grandfather and 5 other siblins below him were all baptised in an anglian church in marylebone, yet as a boy my grandfather went to a convent school and said he was beaten very badly by the Nuns.
I cant make out if my harringtons were catholic or Protestant, very confusing family.
not that it matters. -
Message 25
Posted by Susan Ault (U14258375) on Monday, 12th September 2011
Firstly I really would like to thank all of you who give your time up to help others, sometimes I feel guilty asking but again many many thanks.
I have just sent off for Jeremiah harrington death 1840 so fingers crossed its the black smith himself. I have also sent off for the birth of the Plunkett child sarah. she has been one of those people I have been researching for many years now. I couldnt work her out, I dont know where she fits into the Harrington family, so fingers crossed this birth will show who she is and who her parents were.
I will keep you all informed on sarah plunkett, im sure plunkett is an Irish surname.
sue xxx -
Message 26
Posted by Tourmie (U13798934) on Monday, 12th September 2011
Thanks for the update sue
Can't wait to see what the Sarah Plunkett cert reveals. Hopefully it won't raise more questions than answers! -
Message 27
Posted by deemac (U14258417) on Tuesday, 13th September 2011
Re message 25, yes Plunkett is an Irish surname and the name Harrington was / is very common in Co. Cork. The christian name Jeremiah was one of the most common names for boys in Counties Cork and Kerry in the 19th century, so you will find lots of Jeremiah Harringtons in Cork in the 1700s/1800s.
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Message 28
Posted by Susan Ault (U14258375) on Monday, 19th September 2011
Hi all,
just opened up the last two certificates I had ordered. Jeremiah snr Death has come and its the right chap, same address no 1 white hind alley, st saviours. he was 40 years and a blacksmith. died 1840.
Right also received the birth certificate of sarah plunkett.
Address 1 white hind alley st saviours
father George Plunkett
Mother Elizabeth cronin.
It appears Elizabeth may not have married either jeremiah harrington or George Plunkett. Any ideas here is there a possibility Elizabeth maybe some one elso and has married some chappie with the surname of cronin ?.
So sarah is young Jeremiah's half sister.
Just Elizabeth is my problem now as i havnt been able to find a marriage to a Harrington or a Plunkett.
Any help here please.
Sue x -
Message 29
Posted by Susan Ault (U14258375) on Monday, 19th September 2011
just found the marriage
Elizabeth Cronin
jan-march 1843
st georges, southwark
george Plunkett
i found this on the 1837 marriage index i cant see the certificate on Ancestry marriages and banns. another Β£ 9.50 then just to get her father, but worth it. -
Message 30
Posted by Bashfuljan157 (U5893214) on Monday, 19th September 2011
Ah so Sarah was a half sister ! ......
Marriages Mar 1843 (>99%)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Cronin Elizabeth St Geo. Southk. 4 348
Plunkett George St Geo Southk 4 348 -
Message 31
Posted by Mabel Bagshawe (U2222589) on Monday, 19th September 2011
A death
Name: George Plunket
Date of Registration: Oct-Nov-Dec 1845
Registration district: St Saviour Southwark
Inferred County: London
Volume: 4
Page: 371
Not sure if this is her - no obvoius family witnesses, both are Flynns (one Margaret...)
Name: Sarah Plunkett
Spouse Name: Patrick MacKesey
Spouse Age: Full Age
Record Type: Marriage
Marriage Date: 14 Oct 1866
Parish: St Mary, Bryanston Square
County: Middlesex
Borough: Westminster
Father Name: George Plunkett
Spouse Father Name: John MacKesey -
Message 32
Posted by Susan Ault (U14258375) on Monday, 19th September 2011
Hi yes I have this marriage cert from some time ago and I believe it to be sarah also interesting as Elizabeth is a widow in 1851 so george plunkett has also died then. I will send off for his death. Since certs have gone up I dont order so many but i will have to on this occation. It is really the Harringtons i am interested in. I dont think Elizabeth married Jeremiah harrington other wise when she married george plunkett I would have though it would have read
Elizabeth harrington nee cronin, maybe not ? -
Message 33
Posted by Susan Ault (U14258375) on Monday, 19th September 2011
I have a feeling jeremiah and elizabeth havnt married, bare in mind if jeremiah died 1840 and elizabeth married george Plunkett 1843. george has possibly died 1845. On the 1851 and 1861 census Elizabeth reverts back to being Elizabeth harrington not Elizabeth plunkett.
Sue -
Message 34
Posted by Tourmie (U13798934) on Monday, 19th September 2011
Thanks for the update re birth of Sarah Plunkett. I was longing to know where she came from!
Yes is strange Elizabeth didn't stay a Plunkett but reverted to Harrington, perhaps she didn't like the name. Unless George was still alive and she had to use another name
On that note I did find a different Sarah Plunkett marriage father George and he was alive and well then as he was a witness. Unfortunately it didn't give an age for Sarah just full age, think it was 1878. I can find it again if needs be. -
Message 35
Posted by Tourmie (U13798934) on Monday, 19th September 2011
Forget that last bit different family
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Message 36
Posted by Susan Ault (U14258375) on Tuesday, 20th September 2011
I have found a death for george plunkett 1845 st saviours, im getting a bad feeling here. maybe Elizabeth is killing these men off, she now ends up in 1851 with a michael o'connor but I cant find a marriage here. Elizabeth states she is also from cork so a bit more infomation. she certainly appears to attract the fellas, but appears to only have had children with jeremiah harrington and george plunkett. I think when i send off for the marriage cert for elizabeth and george, that maybe as far as i can go.
sue -
Message 37
Posted by Tourmie (U13798934) on Tuesday, 20th September 2011
Didn't like to say but yes she certainly attracted the fellas, must have been an Irish beauty.
The marriage cert might reveal something. Keep us posted. -
Message 38
Posted by Susan Ault (U14258375) on Friday, 7th October 2011
HI Harrington/Cronin/Plunkett update,
Right here goes it appears sarah plunkett and her half brother jeremiah Harrington, are the children of a Elizabeth Cronin.
Elizabeth is with Jeremiah Harrington from abt 1831-1840 when Jeremiah dies. They appear to have 3 children Mary 1832, margret 1837 and jeremiah 1840. I cant find a marriage for Elizabeth and Jeremiah.
Elizabeth does marry a George Plunkett 1843 in Belgium chapel, according to the rites of the roman catholic church. This is where Elizabeth uses the surname Cronin not harrington. Which makes me think she wasnt married to jeremiah Harrington.
All 4 childrens birth certificates state mothers maiden name Cronin ?.
I wounder if she married patrick oconnor as she was living with him in 1851 ?
At least I have one more ancestor Elizabeths father John cronin-labourer.
sue x -
Message 39
Posted by Mabel Bagshawe (U2222589) on Friday, 7th October 2011
Not forgetting the likely first Jeremiah - b 1835 died 1839 (see message 16)
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Message 40
Posted by Susan Ault (U14258375) on Saturday, 8th October 2011
Not thought of this one forgot him, maybe jeremiah and Elizabeth your saying may have had another son who died. I believe people used to rename later children with the names of dead children.
Thank you for the reminder
sue x
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