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Can anybody please help ....?
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Message 1.Â
Posted by expat_jo (U2397374) on Thursday, 3rd November 2005
I have been researching my partner’s tree and have a problem with his gt, gt grandfather - Fred Barber Jepson.
The family have his baptism certificate (05/01/1862, Manchester) and know he had children including a son, Fred, my partner’s grandfather in 1899. However, it appears he had 2 ‘wives’ – Alice Graves, who I can find a marriage cert for but no death certificate, and Catherine Leckie Gordon, who I can find no certs for, who each bore him 3 children but with Alice bearing the first, Catherine the next two, Alice the next two and Catherine the last! Fred and Alice moved to Scotland (coincidentally where Catherine was from) after Catherine had her first two. I have found Alice listed in the 1881 census living with Fred’s parents Charles and Mary in Lancashire (no sign of Fred), in 1891 Fred was living with ‘wife’ Catherine in Manchester (no sign of an Alice) and in the 1901 Scottish census Fred was living with Alice again. My partners’ father remembers his grandmother as Leckie (not Alice, his true grandmother) and had no idea of the ‘interesting’ family conundrum until we started researching it.
Does anyone have any explanations? I don’t know where to look next. Any help / advice is much appreciated. -
Message 2
Posted by Jowin1 (U1940449) on Friday, 4th November 2005
Do you have all the birth certificates of Freds children to confirm that Alice 1 & 2 and Catherine 1 & 2 are the same Alice & Catherine? Both names were very popular at that time. Perhaps there were 4 wives.
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Message 3
Posted by expat_jo (U2397374) on Friday, 4th November 2005
Hi
I have managed to trace the certificates for all but one of the children (including an unknown uncle for my partner's father, which must be part of the story because they were quite a close family and he is surprised he didn't know about him). For the missing child I have her marriage cert which gives her mother's name (thankfully she was married in Scotland!) The 'wives' were definately Alice nee Graves (I have their marriage cert) and Catherine nee Gordon (I don't have this marriage cert but she is the grandmother who is remembered).
I have also found a child of the previously unknown uncle. Unfortunately as it was the first decade of the 1900's only some of the records are available. I have had no luck tracing anybody on genesreunited and am running out of options. An interesting thing is, the children that were born at the time and his mother are listed in both the 1881 and 1891 census returns, so she knew of the existence of both 'wives'. However, I don't see that there can be 2 Fred Barber Jepsons, born the same year, with the same named children. I'm stumped! -
Message 4
Posted by Jowin1 (U1940449) on Friday, 4th November 2005
Have you tried
Though the records are not complete, it would appear that they are now complete to 1911 ish. Mind you I am not convinced that all the data is there. But worth a look. Have you tried familysearch.org to see if anyone has been logging the family. I found a bigamist in my family but I did find both their marriage certs. Sounds to me like there may have been a wife and mistress perhaps. Was he a wealthy chap? You say he was born in 1862. When were his children born? All in Lancashire? Seema to be quite a dilemma. -
Message 5
Posted by Jowin1 (U1940449) on Friday, 4th November 2005
On re-reading your response, you say you have traced the birth certificates. But have you seen sight of them and can confirm that the mothers maiden name on all certs is the same?
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Message 6
Posted by expat_jo (U2397374) on Friday, 4th November 2005
Hello again
Yes, I have looked in both of those places and not had any luck. I have met someone also researching the family, but not that immediate line, who was so interested she started looking too. But we can't solve the mystery. I could understand if he was a bigamist but he lived with Alice, then Catherine then Alice then Catherine again. Also, I can't find death certs for either Alice or Catherine.
The family weren't particularly wealthy - Fred was a clerk throughout his life. The first 3 children were born in Manchester (1 to Alice, 2 to Catherine) and the last 3 (2 to Alice, 1 to Catherine) in Alexandria, Scotland.
What on earth is that all about? And where was Alice in the 1891 census when her child and husband were living with Catherine? -
Message 7
Posted by expat_jo (U2397374) on Friday, 4th November 2005
Yes, all the names are right. There were definately 2 mothers - Alice Graves and Catherine Gordon.
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