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Help- A Mystery

• Message 1.Μύ

  Posted by MrGrinch-Champion of the Middle Saxons (U1934518) on Saturday, 15th October 2005

  Hi All,
  Ive been pondering on a family mystery for some time and was wondering if any of you guys had any ideas.
  Francis Folly was born in Hounslow in 1863 and lived all of his life there apart from his time of death. He died 18th January 1878 at St Mary's Hospital in London aged 14. This is the first mystery. Its not common in those days for patients to be admitted to hospital, especially one so far away. Why did Francis end up here? I thought he could be visiting family, but have found no link to the area.
  The second mystery. He was buried back in Hounslow, but not until the autumn, a full 9 months after he died. Why was this ? As far as the death cert says, he died of natural causes, so no police involvment.
  Can any one help? Another mystery probably unconnected, Francis had a brother also called Francis. He was born in 1854 in Stokenchurch, Oxon, and prsume he died and Francis II was named after him, BUT i cant find a death cert for him? Can anybody enlighten me ?
  
  Regards
  JF

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• Message 2

  , in reply to message 1.

  Posted by Stepney Boy (U1760040) on Saturday, 15th October 2005

  Hi Gumpy,
  The whole family is on the 1871 census. RG10/1312 Folio 133 Page 8 refers.
  Your francis born 1854 in Stokenchurch, Oxon is in fact a Frederick on the census returns which may explain your 3rd question.
  
  Where abouts in London is the St. Mary's hospital you mention?
  
  Regards
  Spike Hi All,
  Ive been pondering on a family mystery for some time and was wondering if any of you guys had any ideas.
  Francis Folly was born in Hounslow in 1863 and lived all of his life there apart from his time of death. He died 18th January 1878 at St Mary's Hospital in London aged 14. This is the first mystery. Its not common in those days for patients to be admitted to hospital, especially one so far away. Why did Francis end up here? I thought he could be visiting family, but have found no link to the area.
  The second mystery. He was buried back in Hounslow, but not until the autumn, a full 9 months after he died. Why was this ? As far as the death cert says, he died of natural causes, so no police involvment.
  Can any one help? Another mystery probably unconnected, Francis had a brother also called Francis. He was born in 1854 in Stokenchurch, Oxon, and prsume he died and Francis II was named after him, BUT i cant find a death cert for him? Can anybody enlighten me ?
  
  Regards
  JF Μύ

  Link to this forum: Help- A Mystery

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• Message 3

  , in reply to message 2.

  Posted by MrGrinch-Champion of the Middle Saxons (U1934518) on Sunday, 16th October 2005

  Thanks Spike,
  Frederick and Francis are not the same person. Frederick was born in 1852 at Stokenchurch and Francis was born in 1854 at the same place. They then moved to High Wycombe, then from there to Hounslow, Middx. The family do not appear on the 1861 census, so Francis Jnr must have died in between 1854 and 1863.
  St Mary's is in the centre of London around 12 miles from Hounslow.
  Hope you can help !
  Regards
  James Hi Gumpy,
  The whole family is on the 1871 census. RG10/1312 Folio 133 Page 8 refers.
  Your francis born 1854 in Stokenchurch, Oxon is in fact a Frederick on the census returns which may explain your 3rd question.
  
  Where abouts in London is the St. Mary's hospital you mention?
  
  Regards
  Spike Hi All,
  Ive been pondering on a family mystery for some time and was wondering if any of you guys had any ideas.
  Francis Folly was born in Hounslow in 1863 and lived all of his life there apart from his time of death. He died 18th January 1878 at St Mary's Hospital in London aged 14. This is the first mystery. Its not common in those days for patients to be admitted to hospital, especially one so far away. Why did Francis end up here? I thought he could be visiting family, but have found no link to the area.
  The second mystery. He was buried back in Hounslow, but not until the autumn, a full 9 months after he died. Why was this ? As far as the death cert says, he died of natural causes, so no police involvment.
  Can any one help? Another mystery probably unconnected, Francis had a brother also called Francis. He was born in 1854 in Stokenchurch, Oxon, and prsume he died and Francis II was named after him, BUT i cant find a death cert for him? Can anybody enlighten me ?
  
  Regards
  JF Μύ Μύ

  Link to this forum: Help- A Mystery

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• Message 4

  , in reply to message 3.

  Posted by Stepney Boy (U1760040) on Sunday, 16th October 2005

  Hi Grumpy,
  I am at work at the moment but if you do not have access to the 1871 census I will put up on the board the whole family as it appears on the census.
  Please advise if this would be helpful to you. Francis may have been injured / killed in the area of St.Mary's and taken there as the nearest hospital also his death may not have been registered straight away. Just a thought. Thanks Spike,
  Frederick and Francis are not the same person. Frederick was born in 1852 at Stokenchurch and Francis was born in 1854 at the same place. They then moved to High Wycombe, then from there to Hounslow, Middx. The family do not appear on the 1861 census, so Francis Jnr must have died in between 1854 and 1863.
  St Mary's is in the centre of London around 12 miles from Hounslow.
  Hope you can help !
  Regards
  James Hi Gumpy,
  The whole family is on the 1871 census. RG10/1312 Folio 133 Page 8 refers.
  Your francis born 1854 in Stokenchurch, Oxon is in fact a Frederick on the census returns which may explain your 3rd question.
  
  Where abouts in London is the St. Mary's hospital you mention?
  
  Regards
  Spike Hi All,
  Ive been pondering on a family mystery for some time and was wondering if any of you guys had any ideas.
  Francis Folly was born in Hounslow in 1863 and lived all of his life there apart from his time of death. He died 18th January 1878 at St Mary's Hospital in London aged 14. This is the first mystery. Its not common in those days for patients to be admitted to hospital, especially one so far away. Why did Francis end up here? I thought he could be visiting family, but have found no link to the area.
  The second mystery. He was buried back in Hounslow, but not until the autumn, a full 9 months after he died. Why was this ? As far as the death cert says, he died of natural causes, so no police involvment.
  Can any one help? Another mystery probably unconnected, Francis had a brother also called Francis. He was born in 1854 in Stokenchurch, Oxon, and prsume he died and Francis II was named after him, BUT i cant find a death cert for him? Can anybody enlighten me ?
  
  Regards
  JF Μύ Μύ Μύ

  Link to this forum: Help- A Mystery

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• Message 5

  , in reply to message 3.

  Posted by Stepney Boy (U1760040) on Sunday, 16th October 2005

  Hi Grumpy,
  I am at work at the moment but if you do not have access to the 1871 census I will put up on the board the whole family as it appears on the census.
  Please advise if this would be helpful to you. Francis may have been injured / killed in the area of St.Mary's and taken there as the nearest hospital also his death may not have been registered straight away. Just a thought.

  Link to this forum: Help- A Mystery

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• Message 6

  , in reply to message 5.

  Posted by jc (U1902680) on Sunday, 16th October 2005

  As Francis was only 14, perhaps he suffered from some kind of illness all his life which was being treated at St Mary's Hospital and did infact die of "natural causes" when the illness got worse ie a heart condition since birth - in those days he may have just been diagnosed as a "sickly" child.
  I've just looked at National Archives/Wellcome Trust site and St Marys patient archives don't start till 1880 and admissions/discharges from 1900.... both a bit too late to help. Even in the early days, St Marys was a teaching hosptial and alot of research was done there so this may have been the reason why Francis was there. Perhaps they were giving "free" treatment to people suffering from certain conditions so they could try the latest medicines or procedures.

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• Message 7

  , in reply to message 1.

  Posted by reader (U1767310) on Sunday, 16th October 2005

  Hi Grumpy
  I do like a mystery so her is my theory.
  Francis was working in London when he became ill and was taken to the nearest hospital.
  If the Hospital was a teaching hospital perhaps his family agreed to help medical science and later the hospital paid for his burial.

  Link to this forum: Help- A Mystery

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• Message 8

  , in reply to message 6.

  Posted by MrGrinch-Champion of the Middle Saxons (U1934518) on Sunday, 16th October 2005

  Thanks for that, its a very plausable theory. He died of plythesis which i believe is fluid on the lungs. The free treatmeant theory might be true?
  
  Regards As Francis was only 14, perhaps he suffered from some kind of illness all his life which was being treated at St Mary's Hospital and did infact die of "natural causes" when the illness got worse ie a heart condition since birth - in those days he may have just been diagnosed as a "sickly" child.
  I've just looked at National Archives/Wellcome Trust site and St Marys patient archives don't start till 1880 and admissions/discharges from 1900.... both a bit too late to help. Even in the early days, St Marys was a teaching hosptial and alot of research was done there so this may have been the reason why Francis was there. Perhaps they were giving "free" treatment to people suffering from certain conditions so they could try the latest medicines or procedures. Μύ

  Link to this forum: Help- A Mystery

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• Message 9

  , in reply to message 7.

  Posted by MrGrinch-Champion of the Middle Saxons (U1934518) on Sunday, 16th October 2005

  Thsnks for your theory,
  Sounds plausable. He was 14 when he died, so might be a bit young to work up in London. He probably would have been an apprentice bricklayer which was the family trade. Would you let your 14 child aid medical science ? He was buried in a paupers grave so the hospital wouldnt have paid much for the funeral !
  What do you think?
  
  Regards Hi Grumpy
  I do like a mystery so her is my theory.
  Francis was working in London when he became ill and was taken to the nearest hospital.
  If the Hospital was a teaching hospital perhaps his family agreed to help medical science and later the hospital paid for his burial.Μύ

  Link to this forum: Help- A Mystery

  Report message9

• Message 10

  , in reply to message 5.

  Posted by MrGrinch-Champion of the Middle Saxons (U1934518) on Sunday, 16th October 2005

  Hi Spike,
  I have the transcription from that census, thanks for the thought. Francis died of plythesis which i think is fluid on the lungs. Still a mystery i think ?
  
  Regards
  Hi Grumpy,
  I am at work at the moment but if you do not have access to the 1871 census I will put up on the board the whole family as it appears on the census.
  Please advise if this would be helpful to you. Francis may have been injured / killed in the area of St.Mary's and taken there as the nearest hospital also his death may not have been registered straight away. Just a thought.Μύ

  Link to this forum: Help- A Mystery

  Report message10

• Message 11

  , in reply to message 9.

  Posted by reader (U1767310) on Monday, 17th October 2005

  <quote user='GrumpyAussiehater' userid='1934518'>Thsnks for your theory,
  Sounds plausable. He was 14 when he died, so might be a bit young to work up in London. He probably would have been an apprentice bricklayer which was the family trade. Would you let your 14 child aid medical science ? He was buried in a paupers grave so the hospital wouldnt have paid much for the funeral !
  What do you think?
  
  Hi Grumpy
  Too young at 14 to be working in London? Yes, but different days. My Mum left home and started work at 14 and my Dad travelled 200 miles to work in London when 15; that was the 1930's.
  Agree a paupers grave meant unlikely he aided medical science (my daughter is reading about Burke and Hare in school - that's why it came to mind) but that gap between death and burial is curious. I think plythesis could be another name for TB.
  

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