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Too Late For Frederick The Great

• Message 1.Β 

  Posted by glen berro (U8860283) on Thursday, 8th December 2011

  I saw a TV programme about FtG a few months ago and immediately thought he sounded too good to be true. I decided, therefore to get a massive tome out of my library and decide what I thought before asking what you thought here.
  
  Unfortunately todays announcement means I won't finish it (p100 of 800+ps) before the history boards become history.
  
  From what I've read so far I get the impression that the programme was very generous in that he was simply a more efficient despot than those he was associated with. Did his "good" reputation stem from his own propaganda and did he actually believe it himself or was he self-deluding.
  
  I'm sure I could have asked more with more information but I can hear the barbarians at the gate.
  
  glen

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• Message 2

  , in reply to message 1.

  Posted by glen berro (U8860283) on Thursday, 8th December 2011

  did he actually believe it himself or was he self-deluding.Β 
  Sorry, I think the shock has addled what little brain I have.
  
  Did he believe he was a "good" ruler or did he know he was as duplicitous and self serving as your average monarch?
  
  glen

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• Message 3

  , in reply to message 2.

  Posted by CASSEROLEON (U11049737) on Thursday, 8th December 2011

  glen
  
  Was that the programme that made a big thing about the big trauma of his childhood and a relationship which- in this age of outing- is now presumed to have been homosexual?.. There was some adolescent plan to run off, and the other young man was executed, while Frederick was persuaded of his grim duty..
  
  At the risk of being accused of being psycholoanalytical again, there was a very interesting Βι¶ΉΤΌΕΔ Test Match special programme about the stresses on top sportsmen and how it is so often those who appear to be absolutely exemplary and models of team spirit and resolve who actually are putting on a face and acting out the role that is expected of them.. The programme featured Marcus Trescothick- arguably the most talented test cricketer of this generation- who had to give up test cricket.
  
  I think that Frederick was probably one of these.. On my only trip to Germany I visited his house outside Berlin, significantly called "Sans Soucis"- "Free of Care"- it really does still enshrine an excessive desire to have at least one "better place" where he could pursue his passions.
  
  Cass

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• Message 4

  , in reply to message 3.

  Posted by glen berro (U8860283) on Thursday, 8th December 2011

  That sounds like it, Cass. It did concentrate on his lifestyle to a great extent (poetry, (cod)philosophy, music, etc.), on his generalship to a lesser extent, and ignored the political manoeuverings he must have been involved in to achieve what he did.

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• Message 5

  , in reply to message 4.

  Posted by CASSEROLEON (U11049737) on Thursday, 8th December 2011

  glen berro
  
  I think that one of the things that came out was how, as a young man after that trauma- like many people in those circumstances- when he went to war he did not care whether he lived or died. I seem to remember his military jacket with all the marks of innumerable battles.. People can often confuse the state of having nothing left to live for with bravery.
  
  But I wonder how much of the Frederick's reputation was due to (a) his exchanges of letters with Voltaire- the greatest mind in Europe of that age, (b) his love of music- was he not a violinist of some competence, and (c) the fact that Britain made him an ally in its wars, funding the Prussian and other armies, including the Hanoverians own German one, in a succession of wars in which we together defeated the French.. even eventually Napoleon at Waterloo.
  
  The first two points I think "play hard" in the histories and biographies written in and after the Age of Reason when that middle class that was rising in power thanks to its ownership of intellectual property could hail his efforts as part of that age of the gifted amateur before the real heavy weights emerged.. He is credited with being one of the most "Enlightened" of the Enlightened Monarchs of "The Enlightenment"- which really is just short-hand for "book-culture".
  
  Cass

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