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Lord Protector: What does this title mean?
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Message 1.Β
Posted by David James Wall (U14752090) on Wednesday, 12th October 2011
Wednesday 12th October, 2011. BST:1211
Re: Lord Protector?
Historically as far as I was aware in childhood Lord Protector was Oliver Cromwell or Oliver Cromwell LP as he once signed personal letters after he took power in the Military Dictatorship of the so called 'Interregnum'; otherwise known as the COMMONWEALTH of the 17th Century. The weird detail is that recently working together with a friend who is a contact with the MOD (Ministry of Defence) I'm beginning to wonder what the 'dickens' this title is all about historically.
Some facts:
(a), Oliver Cromwell: A Mercenary Title or 'mercenary name'. As the French would have it a 'nome de guerre'. Recent studies would seem to describe that Oliver Cromwell was actually Richard James Butterfield esq. He was registered as a Mercenary in Antwerp; The Low Countries in 1638. He came to prominence as a Captain in the NEW MODEL ARMY at Nasby. For GOD and PARLIAMENT. For the record he was born in Edinburgh, Scotland and was related historically to the Winstable family as in James John Richard Winstable otherwise known as JAMES VI of Scotland and JAMES I of England and Wales. For the record Richard James Butterfield esq. was the second cousin of Charles Richard John Winstable otherwise known as CHARLES I of England and Wales. At one remove the so called English Civil War was a bitter family dipute which as both Winstable and Butterfield were CLAN was an internicine conflict of the FIRST ORDER.
(b), Richard James Butterfield esq: Historically Captain Richard James Butterfield esq. NEW MODEL ARMY was related to Francis Willoughby. This 16th Century Gentleman was a Mining Engineer and Collier based in the East Midlands. He owned 32 Drift mines in North Nottinghamshire in what is now part of the South Yorkshire Coal Field. He was incredibly RICH. The world's first BILLIONARE. He built to the designs of his third cousin the noted Architect / Mason: Robert Smythson; Wollaton Hall in Nottinghamshire between 1580 and 1588 - the year of the ARMARDA. Francis Willoughby was otherwise known as Richard John Butterfield esq. registerd as a Mercenary in Antwerp; the Low Countries in 1587 and born in Edinburgh, Scotland in 1527. He was known to the High Court of Chancery as Richard John Butterfield esq. The Earl of Leicester. Count. BARON. Lord Protector. Warden of the Cinque Ports. Imperiam. As a Privateer in the pay of ELIZABETH Regina he took part in the raid on Cardiz in 1587 where he 'singerd the King of Spain's beard'.
(c), Lord Protector: A 'Roman Title' otherwise known in translation from the original Latin 'Pro Consul'. The first 'Pro Consul' of the Eighth Province of the Roman World 'Britanicus' was the Emperor Hadrian in the 2nd Century AD.Link to this forum: Lord Protector: What does this title mean?
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Message 2
Posted by David James Wall (U14752090) on Thursday, 13th October 2011
Thursday 13th October, 2011. BST:1022
Re: Lord Protector?
With respect to what was written by myself yesterday, there are a number of additional points which perhaps should be laid before the public at large. No doubt they may be disputed but there is reason to suggest that the Butterfield Family were related to the first 'Pro Consul'; the Emperor Hadrian himself...
The facts.
Emperor Hadrian: otherwise known as Andrianous Marcelous Agricola Wall.
He began public life as a Centurian in the EAGLE: The Ninth Legion; as a horse - soldier. He was born in the 2nd century AD in the year 109: in Damascus in present day Syria; the son of a family of quarrymen, stonemasons and building contractors kown collectively as WALL & CO Ltd. He married in the terms of the day Elizabeth Ann Mary Butterfield. It has to be understood that both WALL and BUTTERFIELD were both two CLAN of the DRUZE. As far as I am aware the two familys arrived in Britannicus in approximately 150AD and foundered estates in the Scottish Borders. One at Coldstream and another at Wall itself between Selkirk and JedburughLink to this forum: Lord Protector: What does this title mean?
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Message 3
Posted by Thomas (U14985443) on Thursday, 13th October 2011
In reply to David James Wall:
I wonder where you got these informations from. I learnd that Oliver Cromwell was related to Thomas Cromwell, which was his Great-Uncle.
I also think that it was difficult to keep family records of descendency through centuries and there are, I donΒ΄t know how many, suppose rather a few families who can trace their ancestors back to the times of the Roman Empire.
The other question in this regard is, how easy was it for people to change their names by taking up a new one when moving to Britain from abroad. One probably could say his name is "Oliver Cromwell" for instance, but who was going to proof whether this was the true name and on what evidences the bearer had to produce if questioned.Link to this forum: Lord Protector: What does this title mean?
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Message 4
Posted by TwinProbe (U4077936) on Thursday, 13th October 2011
Thomas
I think that the first two posts are intended as an extended but heavy handed joke at the expense of history message-board posters. I'm not sure that we deserve it but there it is. I would suggest a smile of resignation and your attention turned to other matters.
Best wishes,
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Message 5
Posted by giraffe47 (U4048491) on Thursday, 13th October 2011
Lesson One:
never trust people who SHOUT . . .Link to this forum: Lord Protector: What does this title mean?
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Message 6
Posted by islanddawn (U7379884) on Thursday, 13th October 2011
The style of the post seems familiar. A different name but I'm sure we've had someone on here before who set out posts in exactly the same manner and used random capitals anywhere in a sentence. And the content of his posts were just as strange as this current one.
Link to this forum: Lord Protector: What does this title mean?
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Message 7
Posted by Thomas (U14985443) on Thursday, 13th October 2011
In reply to TwinProbe
You may be right in your view and I found the whole thing unbelievable when IΒ΄ve read it the first time.
IΒ΄ll take your advice.Link to this forum: Lord Protector: What does this title mean?
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Message 8
Posted by Thomas (U14985443) on Thursday, 13th October 2011
In reply to islanddawn
HeΒ΄s on here since Januar 2011, so far as it is able to trace his posts back, though heΒ΄s not so often posting on here.Link to this forum: Lord Protector: What does this title mean?
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Message 9
Posted by Harpo (U14643022) on Thursday, 13th October 2011
With respect to what was written by myself yesterday,Β Always a good idea to respect yourself even when others do not.
Emperor Hadrian: otherwise known as Andrianous Marcelous Agricola Wall.
He began public life as a Centurian in the EAGLE: The Ninth Legion; as a horse - soldier.Β There are a number of factual errors here.
First, Andrianous Marcelous Agricola Wall is misspelled. English orthography did not exist in the second century AD. The name should be Adrianus Noen Marcelus Agricola Wall.
Second, you are confusing Adrianus Noen with his younger brother Notso Hugh Mungus Antonine Wall.
Aside from that, all is clear.Link to this forum: Lord Protector: What does this title mean?
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Message 10
Posted by David James Wall (U14752090) on Friday, 14th October 2011
Friday 14th October, 2011. BST:1111
Re: Lord Protector?
With respect to what I have written previously there is additional information as to the selection of the Mercenary Title or 'nome de guerre': Oliver Cromwell by Richard James Butterfield esq. Apparently Richard was a horse - soldier at the time of the Scottish Wars which preceded the so called English Civil War. He fought an 'action' as part of a troop of 30 men at CROMWELL; a village in bizzarely enough Nottinghamshire. Historically there was a POST HOUSE at Cromwell which lies even today on the A1 (the Great North Road). The 'action' was to intercept a letter which was being carried by the 'post horse' between London and Edinburugh. The letter was worth 'a packet'. Richard was from then sometimes refered to as Richard: Duke of Cromwell. The 'packet' was worth purportedly a 'Field Marshal's Batton' to the CROWN.Link to this forum: Lord Protector: What does this title mean?
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Message 11
Posted by marchog_du_aka_Stoggler (U14998493) on Friday, 14th October 2011
With respect, it's iInteresting that the TITLE of this thread is "Lord Protector: What does this title mean?", and then the POSTER doesn't even TRY to answer his OWN question!
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Message 12
Posted by an ex-nordmann - it has ceased to exist (U3472955) on Friday, 14th October 2011
He did. And got it wrong.
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Message 13
Posted by raundsgirl (U2992430) on Friday, 14th October 2011
In between all this fighting and changing names, when exactly did this busy gent find time to represent Huntingdon as an MP from 1628 onwards?
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Message 14
Posted by an ex-nordmann - it has ceased to exist (U3472955) on Friday, 14th October 2011
That was also a misrepresentation of the TRUE history. The 1628 from Huntingdon goes to Peterborough. CROMWELL needed the 1659 to Kings Cross (and boy did he make kings cross). Unfortunately he was dead by then.
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Message 15
Posted by Vizzer aka U_numbers (U2011621) on Tuesday, 18th October 2011
The style of the post seems familiar. A different name but I'm sure we've had someone on here before who set out posts in exactly the same manner and used random capitals anywhere in a sentence. And the content of his posts were just as strange as this current one.Β
RSS_643_IKWIG perhaps:
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Message 16
Posted by raundsgirl (U2992430) on Tuesday, 18th October 2011
I thought that 1628 from Huntingdon went to Kettering! If my memory serves me correctly it passed through Raunds station. Surely it was the 1528 that went to Peterborough, Nordmann?
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Message 17
Posted by islanddawn (U7379884) on Tuesday, 18th October 2011
Yes, that is who I was thinking of but I couldn't remember his name. Good searching Viz!
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Message 18
Posted by raundsgirl (U2992430) on Tuesday, 18th October 2011
Is it me, or are those outpourings absolute gibberish? They certainly bear a certain resemblance to present company. Do you think he knows EB44th? If the aforementioned hadn't been banned we could have introduced them. Think what amazing message threads that would produce!Link to this forum: Lord Protector: What does this title mean?
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Message 19
Posted by TwinProbe (U4077936) on Wednesday, 19th October 2011
Hi Vizzer
I'm sure you are absolutely correct. Thanks for the identification.
With your hint I now remember a discussion with David on copper or iron deposits at Stapleford Hill in the East Midlands. I think if you look at all his posts under his old name some are simple and coherent, and some not. The Great War and 2nd World War were particular interests of his I think.
I imagine that we just have to be patient.
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Message 20
Posted by PaulRyckier (U1753522) on Wednesday, 19th October 2011
TP,
if you remember the guy from the TNO Delft The Netherlands. He many times changes his name and starts again on these boards. He was linked to the TNO as a lecturer? he said. He resided on a small flat among his books. A lot of them, because he said the neighbours were disturbed for the firerisk. He also spoke once about his disability in his head. Don't remember exactly what he mentioned as disease. He has also his "lucid" moments when he is aware about his situation. I think it was you who tried to have a "reasonable" conversation with him.
It reminds me about someone, who also posted here. In a clear moment he said that he was collocated for "stalking" his former wife, daughter of a rich family: he said. Sometimes he posted from the hospital and sometimes from a "cafΓ©" nearby: he said. The name escapes me. Perhaps Caro remembers his name? It can be that he posted on the old messageboards (before 2005), not sure anymore.
Even the fierce, turbulent and rude (especially against Minette) Texan, who changed also several times his name and who get banned from these boards for being too rude with the contributors, was polite to that guy and was able to have some "bridge" with him when he was in one of his "lucid" periods.
But yes, who are we, the sane people, who march perhaps without knowing it also on a "thin line" between "normal" behaviour and the broad "rest"? If I remember it well, Nordmann alluded once to one of this periods in his life. But with Nordmann you never know if he is joking in a subtle way or if he is "blood earnest"? (OOPS: Dutch: bloedernstig. Had a look in several Dutch dictionaries and the word seems not to exist in Dutch. Although if one looks on the internet the word is currently used in texts in the concept that I know: "in a very serious manner".
Kind regards and with high esteem,
Paul.Link to this forum: Lord Protector: What does this title mean?
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Message 21
Posted by TwinProbe (U4077936) on Wednesday, 19th October 2011
Hi Paul,
I think you must mean Prof Muster. If so I don't think he has posted here for a year or two. But he could certainly be difficult to talk to!
I'm not hostile in any way to independent thinkers but most of us here share a basic knowledge of European history. If I have a wild theory, for example that Queen Victoria was a man, I will appreciate the degree to which my idea diverges from that common shared knowledge. Naturally I will try to support my divergence with extra evidence.
Often the independent thinkers seem to be living in their own bubble quite separated from the common shared knowledge and will never provide us with the evidence that has formed their views. Alternatively they may be the disciples of the world view of a single author and simply post restatements of that view.
I remember a poster with very heterodox views on post-Roman Britain. I asked for some evidence and he replied that 'he was providing information not joining a debate'. There's not a lot one can do in that situation.
Kind regards,
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Message 22
Posted by PaulRyckier (U1753522) on Friday, 21st October 2011
TP,
thank you very much for your wise words.
Kind regards and with high esteem,
Paul.Link to this forum: Lord Protector: What does this title mean?
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