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The Sexiest People In History
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Message 1.Β
Posted by baz (U14258304) on Sunday, 18th September 2011
Who were the sexiest historical figures? For me, the young Queen Victoria is a prime candidate.
Apparently she was a right goer, and I have a sneaking suspicion that her demands wore down Albert's constitution to the point where he had no strength to fight off typhoid.
Any other candidates? -
Message 2
Posted by Mutatis_Mutandis (U8620894) on Sunday, 18th September 2011
Seems a rather pointless discussion to me, but it reminds me about something I read on the Napoleon Podcast message board recently: In an Italian "beauty contest" of depictions of female beauty, Canova's nude marble of Pauline Bonaparte was chosen as the winner; well ahead of other famous works such as the Mona Lisa or the nymphs on Boticelli's Primavera. Pauline was a scandalous beauty in her days, and her decision to be portrayed nude was unusual.
Of course, fashion varies with time. This is said to be one of the criteria that help to distinguish fakes from real old works of art: Fakes tend to reflect contemporary ideas of beauty. The buyer is unlikely to notice, thoroughly used as he or she is to her own standards, but let it hang on the wall for fifty years, and the fake stands out as a misfit among the rest. -
Message 3
Posted by islanddawn (U7379884) on Sunday, 18th September 2011
I agree MM.
The idea of what is beautiful and/or sexually attractive varies, not only over time but also varies according to culture.
From this
To this
And
Or -
Message 4
Posted by Temperance (U14455940) on Sunday, 18th September 2011
Apparently she was a right goer, and I have a sneaking suspicion that her demands wore down Albert's constitution to the point where he had no strength to fight off typhoid. Β
Her Imperial Majesty, Victoria, by the Grace of God of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Ireland, Queen, Defender of the Faith, Empress of India, may well have inherited the famous Hanoverian libido, but it is outrageous to suggest that her passionate and responsive nature caused her husband's death! Albert did not die because his wife's sexual demands had left him physically exhausted: he simply worked too hard, fretted too much and had been brought low by "a fatal chill" caught after being out on a "cold and drenching day".
Henry VIII is seen as a "sexy" man (especially after "The Tudors") and yet nothing could be further from the truth. All the evidence suggests that he suffered from erectile dysfunction and that, as Anne Boleyn unwisely and bitterly confided in her sister-in-law, "en cas de soy copuler avec femme" he lacked both "vertu" (skill) and "puissance (virility). Seems Henry never did have the kind of rampant priapic urge of say a Francois I of France. Henry was not, in other words, "a right goer" - if that horrible expression may be used of males. Antonia Fraser points out that there is an amusing saying - beloved of tourist guides - that Henry is the only king who had more wives than mistresses. We can't know that for sure, of course, but it is perhaps true that by the standards of the time he was positively uxorious!
Mary, Queen of Scots, is usually seen as a femme fatale - alluring and sexually abandoned - yet she probably only had sexual intercourse with two men - Darnley and Bothwell - and she was married to both of them. Her union with poor Francois II was probably never consummated.
SST. -
Message 5
Posted by Tas (U11050591) on Friday, 23rd September 2011
In thinking about Royal females what about Cleopatra? I understand, from her biography by Emil Ludwig, that she had a new slave every night between Julius Caesar and Mark Antony. The slave typically had a wonderful night but was executed at Dawn.
Similarly the Persian Queen of Arabian Nights, Scherazade was married to a Persian King, Shehryar, who typically married every day and each wife was executed at day break
One of the most promiscuous ladies in History is the daughter of Augustus Caesar, Julia, who occasionally had sex in the main square of Rome and was exiled to a little island for her promiscuity.
Another example is that of Messalina, the first Empress of Claudius, who once challenged the biggest .w..... of Rome and won out the contest.
Compared to these historical figures, Queen Victoria was as chaste as a new-born babe.
Tas -
Message 6
Posted by Temperance (U14455940) on Saturday, 24th September 2011
I understand, from her biography by Emil Ludwig, that she had a new slave every night between Julius Caesar and Mark Antony. Β
Four of them in a bed? Good grief - the trollop! -
Message 7
Posted by Herewordless (U14549396) on Saturday, 24th September 2011
Sexiest in history?
Emperor Claudius
King Baldwin IV of Jerusalem
Mary I of England
Archbishop Laud
Oliver Cromwell
Queen Anne -
Message 8
Posted by Mutatis_Mutandis (U8620894) on Saturday, 24th September 2011
Tas, fairy tales and malicious gossip aside, what the women you mention appear to have in common was that they used sexual relationships as a way to gain political power; or had partners who derived political powers from their relationship with them.
Messalina, for example, was a teenager married to an emperor old enough to be her father: Her status and influence as empress were considerable, but she can have had few illusions about her likely fate when Claudius died. She plotted with a lover to replace her husband as emperor. Julia, too, was accused of conspiring with a lover to overthrow Augustus, although the details remain very murky.
Another famous example is that of Agrippina, Claudius' next wife and the mother of the emperor Nero. Tacitus acidly commented that her sexual escapades were only designed to satisfy her lust for power. (He needed not to add that the latter was considered insatiable.)
In the majority of cases, accusations of wild promiscuity can have been little more than malicious gossip. The real objection these historians had was against women entering the public political stage. Romans had few problems with women who wielded power behind the scenes, but they were not supposed to demand a role in public life. It was routine in Rome to accuse people who somehow transgressed social norms, also of every possible sexual perversity -- Tiberius, Nero and Caligula suffered a similar fate. Accusations of incest were already a standard form of political slander during the republic. -
Message 9
Posted by raundsgirl (U2992430) on Saturday, 24th September 2011
Queen Anne? Why on earth would she be included? I know she had a lot of children, but that was in an attempt to produce a survivor, poor woman. Only one of them lived to the age of eleven, out of 17 pregnancies. How could she possibly be 'sexy' under those circumstances?
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Message 10
Posted by Tas (U11050591) on Saturday, 24th September 2011
Hi Mutatis,
I would venture to suggest that the way people looked at morality was quite different in those times. The way in which Emperor Caligula behaved is so depraved that one would hesitate to even bring him into the discussion. And Agrippina, Nero's mother, was after all Caligula's sister.
I think you make a possible case against Messalina, however, regarding Cleopatra, those slaves were between her love affair with Caesar and Mark Antony ( not despite Temperance little joke, between them). Then she was already Queen and was not trying to achieve any kind of power.
I have not heard of any kind of Coup D'Γ‰tat that Julia was planning. Her sexual activities have been recorded by several historians. It took quite a while for Emperor Augustus to put her in exile, only after he was completely fed up with the stories of her sexual peccadilloes. In fact, I believe he wrote a law about how the Royal family was expected to behave.
I may point out that even in pre-Victorian Britain the attitude to these things were quite different. It was only when Victoria married Albert, coming not from the highest royalty, and bringing all kinds of Middle Class values to Britain, that Middle-Class morality took over in Victorian times.
Also it is said, the Middle Class came to power in Britain in 1832, and with it eventually came Middle-Class morality.
Tas -
Message 11
Posted by Temperance (U14455940) on Saturday, 24th September 2011
Queen Anne? Why on earth would she be included? I know she had a lot of children, but that was in an attempt to produce a survivor, poor woman. Only one of them lived to the age of eleven, out of 17 pregnancies. How could she possibly be 'sexy' under those circumstances?Β
Hereword's list must be a joke, raundsgirl. Queen Mary I's married life was one of utter misery, and the saga of her imagined pregnancies unbearably sad.
Tas - sorry, I didn't mean to be facetious or coarse. It was just the way you worded your post!!
And so it is said the Middle Class came to power in 1832, and with it eventually came Middle-Class morality. Β
Didn't middle-class morality derive from English Puritanism? I don't think there were any sexy Puritans, were there? -
Message 12
Posted by Herewordless (U14549396) on Saturday, 24th September 2011
Raunds, I was pulling the OP's leg with as many 'really attractive' historical people as I could name, doh.
Anne became extremely obese and unattractive in later life, bless her, due to those umpteen unfulfilled pregnancies. -
Message 13
Posted by islanddawn (U7379884) on Saturday, 24th September 2011
Good post MM, and a valid point. What is historical fact and what is merely malicious rumour created by enemies?
It was routine in Rome to accuse people who somehow transgressed social norms, also of every possible sexual perversity -- Tiberius, Nero and Caligula suffered a similar fate. Accusations of incest were already a standard form of political slander during the republic.Β
Not only those who transgressed social norms, sexual slander was also a common weapon used against adversaries in the Roman political arena. Romans were the most notorious gossips.
Julius Caesar was dogged by rumours and accusations of homosexuality (namely with Nicomedes, King of Bythnia) almost his entire political life.
Although, JC himself would be a prime candidate for this thread. His habit of seducing the wives of political enemies was common knowledge. Plus, of course, his three great love affairs, Servilia (mother of Brutus), Cleopatra and Eunoe (Queen of Maurentania). -
Message 14
Posted by Tas (U11050591) on Saturday, 24th September 2011
Hi Temperance,
I believe the puritans had a far greater effect here in America in our city of Boston. Remember the 'Boston Brahmans?' They put a whole section of our country, New England, in a straight jacket.
I was thinking about George IV, William IV and the Regency period of Beau Brummel. It was only with Victoria and Albert that the British monarchy acquired a reputation for morality.
Prince Albert brought with him a lot of nice traditions; like the Christmas tree and Christmas carols, boxing Day and I believe Christmas cards. I think the whole English speaking word is indebted to Prince Albert for those traditions and the typical Anglo-American and Australian Christmas. Even the famous English-American Christmas carol, "Oh Christmas tree, oh Christmas tree.......etc." comes from the German Carol, "O tannenbaum, o tannebaum, wie shön sind deine balttern."
Tas
P.S. Tas - sorry, I didn't mean to be facetious or coarse. It was just the way you worded your post!!Β
don't be apologetic T, that was a good joke. -
Message 15
Posted by WarsawPact (U1831709) on Monday, 26th September 2011
The Sexiest People In History
Catherine The Great's horse? -
Message 16
Posted by Herewordless (U14549396) on Tuesday, 27th September 2011
Careful, WP, someone might think you're being serious. Remember to be totally sober, sensible and scholarly.
...................Unless you really ARE a bestialist?
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Message 17
Posted by OUNUPA (U2078829) on Thursday, 29th September 2011
Elvis.
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