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19th Century Carmarthen Bay Shipping
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Message 1.Β
Posted by TheodericAur (U14260004) on Sunday, 11th September 2011
Carmarthen Bay in the 19th Century was not a tourist industry but based on trade, iron and coal. Interrestingly you can trace the changes through history of how ports slowly changed and lost their importance.
Carmarthen - a Roman port was in the early 1800's a larger port than Cardiff but when the changes occurred from wooden to iron hulls the ships were made where there was coal for the iron smelting which was in Llanelli.
See the following link:
The ships built here sailed to South America and Australia........
The following is a link to the Carmarthen Bay area today.........
which gives some idea of the layout....
Kind Regards - TA -
Message 2
Posted by Papa Nopsis (U14479902) on Sunday, 11th September 2011
Reverting back for a moment to the thread which started this off, the only method of getting from one place to the other around Devon Cornwall and the coast of Wales in Arthur's time, was by sea.
My auntie used the Ilfracombe to Swansea ferry in about 1898 when she was a six year old with her Mum, for a holiday back home in Cornwall (Vivian, Truro).
It is still running.
But that is not the hard industry and commerce that we are considering. -
Message 3
Posted by TheodericAur (U14260004) on Monday, 12th September 2011
Hi Gardda
I would totally agree that there was much sea borne trade between Wales, Devon and Cornwall in Arthur's time.
Regarding the Gwendraeth and the Towy they form the estuary of three rivers the other being the Taf.. where Dylan Thomas lived at Laugharne....
The following links you may find useful for the shipping. There are photographs here of old Carmarthenshire some showing ships at Carmarthen.....
The following web site shows maritime history of Swansea
The following one picures of Llanelli and Burry Port
Finally a web site about Burry Port including this article about Amelia Erhart who landed at Burry Port after her historic Air Crossing....
Hope you find this interesting....
Kind Regards - TA -
Message 4
Posted by CASSEROLEON (U11049737) on Monday, 12th September 2011
A general point-- Getting around the British Isles generally up to the eighteenth century it was advisable to go down a river and round by sea.. But perhaps especially in the SW and Wales... the importance of 'Abers' and 'mouths'.
Cass -
Message 5
Posted by Papa Nopsis (U14479902) on Monday, 12th September 2011
Did they heave coal round to Sussex and up the canal system there to light and warm the rural people there: they would also have taken ship loads of coal to London up the Thames, but Newcastle coal was probably cheaper.
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Message 6
Posted by CASSEROLEON (U11049737) on Monday, 12th September 2011
Papa Nopsis
Almost certainly.. The rivers were improved by "cuts" and "navigations" and that encouraged the building of "stand-alone canals".. Coal and all kinds of heavy goods- one always overlooks the importance of limestone and lime-kilns for various agricultural and industrial purposes- were moved by rivers and canals.
But as the South West has come up.. The Poor Law Amendment Act of 1834 addressed the problem of the over-population of the South West- which is interesting in terms of this threads connections with industries here and in Wales going right back to Roman times. We forget too that Cornish pride and nationalism goes right back to those days (perhaps of pre-Arthurian times) when these were places that were minor workshops of the Roman world.
The economies of the SW regions seem to have been hard hit by the Northern Industrial Revolution- and perhaps the advent of the potato that helped families to survive on less at this time, though the Great Reform Act of 1832 which redistributed seats in Parliament to reflect population more fairly did take seats away from the SW.
But part of the 1834 Poor Law Act provided for migration to places of Labour shortage, in this case Lancashire. The great Cotton industry provided guaranteed jobs, and people from the SW, along with all their belongings, were placed on canal barges and taken up to Lancashire.
The scheme was shortlived because of the trade slump in 1836,when the Cotton Mills laid people off, and there were famous riots in Stockport, Cheshire- which may have inspired the lads who called for one this summer.
Cass -
Message 7
Posted by CASSEROLEON (U11049737) on Monday, 12th September 2011
Looking at the coal question once more-- the Kent coal field probably supplied the real SE corner of England.. I remember the last pit in Kent closing.
Cass -
Message 8
Posted by TheodericAur (U14260004) on Monday, 12th September 2011
Hi Cass
Interesting thing internal migrations within Britain where the work force seems to travekl more for work than to escape oppression.
Also interesting that people who migrate to a different ethnic group does seem to take on that ethnicity after one or two generations
Kind Regards - TA -
Message 9
Posted by CASSEROLEON (U11049737) on Monday, 12th September 2011
Theoderic
I was just watching an old video "Their Finest Hour" about civil defence and among so many things one stood out.. A fireman was describing fire-fighting during the Blitz and he said just how much it meant to be part of a team.. Holding one part of a hose, knowing ,that if you let go, the other man holding it might be killed because he would lose control. It just seemed to help him to focus on his duty and hold on for the sake of others.
And it just seems to me that the English tradition has been based very much on a great ability to just gell as a team when faced by a real challenge, and that anyone who gells in a team from whatever background etc gets to feel integrated.
But- that does not necessarily mean in the English context- that the person is expected to renounce their other identity and roots. Not all country's and societies seem to be as open and tolerant.
Cass -
Message 10
Posted by TheodericAur (U14260004) on Monday, 12th September 2011
Hi Cass
I would perhaps say "British" rather than English.
The English, Welsh and Scotts do pull together as individual nations but there is in my opinion a great "cross over" where people may move to other areas to work and take on the mantle of the nationhood where they live by the second generation.
So people may refer back to a grandfather coming from another nation but identify primarily with their current location.
This is why within Britain very few of us can say that we are "pure bloods" yet there are strong feelings of difference until there is a necessity to move or to combine due to an outside source.
So your blitz fireman's comment is particularly pertinent.
Kind Regards - TA
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