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The Insider's Guide to The Top Historical Sights of Old Blighty
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Message 1.Β
Posted by ArweRheged (U14720560) on Tuesday, 12th July 2011
TP and Ferval are talking about a new thread in which we give our recommendations for the top sights for history buffs visiting Britain. It's a great idea, so let's get to it......
1. Mainland, Orkney. A rather windy Shangri-La for fans of the prehistoric era. Skara Brae, Maes Howe, the Ring of Brodgar, the Broch of Gurness and many other sites all clustered in a few square miles. A great chippy in Stromness and fine beer from both local microbreweries puts the tin hat on any visit to this stunning corner of Britain.
2. York. The capital of the old north. Under threat of ruin by tea towel peddlars and other purveyors of miscellaneous White Rose oomskah, but a fine, historic town with England's third best catheral. History leeches out of every brick.
3. Bradford. Don't laugh. The only great industrial city which has escaped the invasion of tedious mill conversions, the opening of creative media "hubs" and a preponderance of overpriced bars selling overpriced fizzy lager to wazzocks who like talking about money and their incredibly gifted children. Keep this stuff in London. They like it down there. Bradford boasts masses of industrial urban architecture and real gems like The New Beehive (a pub which still has gas lights), all in a city which still looks like something off "Kes".
4. Snarford Church, Lincolnshire. Not what you'd expect from what looks like a disused parish church stuck in a field of barley.
Regards,
A RLink to this forum: The Insider's Guide to The Top Historical Sights of Old Blighty
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Message 2
Posted by TwinProbe (U4077936) on Tuesday, 12th July 2011
Hi AR
Your remarks about my City are much appreciated; you are clearly an individual of discernment.
Certainly visitors to the Bradford area have much to enjoy. The complex of Victorian buildings around Sir Titus Salt's Mill are now a World Heritage Site. A short trip to Bingley allows the examination of a sequence of 5 working locks on the Leeds-Liverpool canal. Continue to Keighley where you can see a major geology collection at Cliffe Castle Museum before taking a heritage train on the Worth Valley Railway to sample the literary delights of Haworth and the Bronte Museum. Mining enthusiasts, having travelled south to the National Mining Museum at Caphouse Colliery, can then sample the lunar landscape of Baildon Moor on their way to experience the charms of Ilkley and the world's finest teashop.
But is York Minister only third on the list? A very difficult value judgement;. Durham is my first choice with York Minster in second place. But Ely and Winchester I always visit when I can, and Gloucester, Canterbury and Salisbury are also magnificent.
Would Carlisle have a special place in your estimation I wonder? Easily visited from Bradford of course by catching the train at Shipley and travelling via the stunning Ribblehead viaduct.
Kind regards
TPLink to this forum: The Insider's Guide to The Top Historical Sights of Old Blighty
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Message 3
Posted by ArweRheged (U14720560) on Tuesday, 12th July 2011
Hi TP,
I'm afraid York is lucky to sqeak in at number three in Cathedral terms. I'd argue:-
1. Lincoln
2. Salisbury
3. York
4. Wells
5. Durham
But Bradford is an absolute must.
Carlisle is a very interesting town, but many of its glories are no longer visible. There is no trace of Hadrian's Wall and no real impression of either of the Roman forts. Echoes of the Anglo-Scottish wars are limited largely to street names and although there are a smattering of fine buildings (Guildhall, Castle, cathedral, Dixon's Chimney), I'd say that visitors to Cumbria would be better engaged with:-
1. The Settle to Carlisle railway. Especially the bit around Dent (Blea Moor tunnel, Ribblehead viaduct , the site of Rise Hill navvy camp).
2. Appleby. Social history in action once per year at the horse fair.
3. Kendal. A bit of a hidden gem. No one particular sight, but many of the original medieval burgage plots still exist and as a result, the oldf town is a criss-crossed by a maze of ancient alleys and ginnels.
4. Furness Abbey.
5. Castlerigg Stone Circle.
Regards,
A RLink to this forum: The Insider's Guide to The Top Historical Sights of Old Blighty
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Message 4
Posted by somewhatsilly (U14315357) on Tuesday, 12th July 2011
Oh, I am fond of Kendal, we often used to stay there, in a great old pub, in the days when you had to drive down to London to get a flight to anywhere interesting.
Edinburgh is, I suppose she says through gritted Glaswegian teeth, a must but to get away from the overwhelming crowds, a good day's trip is to Falkirk for the canal, tunnel and Wheel and then a walk up to Rough Castle on the Antonine Wall. Hardly Vindolanda of course but interesting and has a fine set of lilias.
From there down through Linlithgow for the palace, lovely setting and a rather more European style than most of the Scottish ones. On Sundays in the summer the superb fountain in the courtyard is in full flow - unfortunately not with wine.
After that the Hospitaller's Priory at Torphichen is worth a stop before heading up the hill to the superb Cairnpapple prehistoric complex with Bronze Age burials and, if it's stopped raining, a view from one side of Scotland to the other.
I haven't been up to Stirling yet to see the restored palace apartments but it certainly looks worthy of a trip.
Kilmartin Glen for the linear cemetery and the circles, standing stones and rock art is pretty unmissable and handy to combine with Dunadd to see the spot where the kings of Dal Riata were crowned.Link to this forum: The Insider's Guide to The Top Historical Sights of Old Blighty
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Message 5
Posted by TwinProbe (U4077936) on Tuesday, 12th July 2011
Hi AR
Well, yes Lincoln Cathedral is splendid, and the City boasts a castle and the only Roman arch you can still drive under, even if it has been knocked over 37 times.
You mustn't put people off visiting Carlisle; the cathedral, the castle and the Tullie House Museum can form a memorable day out. I wouldn't argue with any of your Cumbria selection, except to add the famous mint cake to the delights of Kendal and to observe that Dent was a treasure robbed from Yorkshire.
Best wishes
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Message 6
Posted by TwinProbe (U4077936) on Tuesday, 12th July 2011
Hi ferval
Us TV detective enthusiasts see a great deal of Glasgow (Taggart) and Edinburgh (Rebus). Edinburgh is an extraordinary place; Arthur's Seat, the Scott Monument, and the proximity of the Forth Rail Bridge must tip the scales in its favour.
And you know, comparatively speaking, the crowds aren't as overwhelming as some. I visited the Ashmolean museum recently to see their collection of Roman gold glass. Magnificent; in fact a magnificent museum altogether. I thought that while I was there I might as well look at some of the colleges of the Thames Valley Poly but the crowds in the streets were just desperate. I can just about forgive street entertainers and musicians but there were men selling bubble-blowing kits. When did Disneyland buy Oxford?
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Message 7
Posted by Silver Jenny (U12795676) on Tuesday, 12th July 2011
I live in Oxford, Twin-Probe and agree parts of the centre are bad. But if you keep clear of Cornmarket, the worst offender, you can find quiet corners. The castle area has been undergoing massive regeneration and you can now walk to the top of the Castle mound. The prison is - shudder- a hotel. The street entertainers are good on the whole. Parks aplenty and the Botanic Garden can be peaceful if you pick your time: modest entrance fee.
The Ashmolean has had an expensive upgrade but the frontage is untouched. What tourists seem to forget is that Oxford has two working universities and several teaching hospitals, as well as all the activites and infrastructure of a working city, including a car factory for production of the world famous Mini. It is not a theme park, Disney or otherwise!.. It also has an infuriating one way system so go to one of the Park and Ride and save your nerves and your pocket: car parking costs at least a Duke's ransom!.
i hesitate to include my own choice but I will: Chichester. Cathedral is well worth a visit, excellent theatre, there are good shops, and if you have time, do take the Harbour tour.Link to this forum: The Insider's Guide to The Top Historical Sights of Old Blighty
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Message 8
Posted by Silver Jenny (U12795676) on Tuesday, 12th July 2011
Are we allowed two places on the list. I would add Portsmouth. Maritime history in abundance but if you have time for only one visit choose the Marines Museum. From 1664 their battle honours are astonishing and seeing their place in English history was an eyeopener to this landlubber. If you have more time and visit the Naval Dockyard, also take time to visit to Spice Island and the Garrison church. A harbour boat trip will take you to the entrance of the dock where many of the modern naval vessels lie after decommissioning. Shops, hotels and restaurants at Gunwharf Quays: mainline trains go right through to Postsmouth Harbour station.
Link to this forum: The Insider's Guide to The Top Historical Sights of Old Blighty
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Message 9
Posted by TwinProbe (U4077936) on Tuesday, 12th July 2011
Hi Jenny
Your reply is much kinder than I deserve; I didn't mean to insult your place of residence. Then you heap coals of fire on my head by choosing my own birth county for your favourite place. Chichester is lovely, and very convenient for Fishbourne Roman Palace.
I'm sure that the Morse novels, Brideshead Revisited and Lord Peter Wimsey just pull the punters in by the thousand. The Ashmolean is truly fabulous and the recent refurbishment is a transformation. It may even now have the edge over the Fitzwilliam Museum!
Kind regards,
TPLink to this forum: The Insider's Guide to The Top Historical Sights of Old Blighty
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Message 10
Posted by ArweRheged (U14720560) on Wednesday, 13th July 2011
Hi TP,
I was about to concede your Dent point and play my substitute - Hardknott Roman Fort - when suddenly I heard the horns of Urien faintly blowing. If (as many suspect) Dent is named after Dunaut and if (sounds of creaking) Nennius and Taliesin are right, then quite clearly the entire western chunk of what is now Yorkshire is by rights part of Cumbria. The rest of North Yorkshire is a vassal state. So, I am afraid that Anglian Yorkist upstarts stoie Dent from us - not the other way round. We have merely reasserted our rights to part of our kingdom. It's just happy coinidence that it is arguably the hidden gem of both of our counties......
Regards
A RLink to this forum: The Insider's Guide to The Top Historical Sights of Old Blighty
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Message 11
Posted by cloudyj (U1773646) on Wednesday, 13th July 2011
Despite being a Cumbrian, I'd agree with your assessment of Carlisle. The castle, Cathedral and Tullie House museum would take an hour each at best, and as you say, much of the rest of Carlisle's history is under newer buildings.
Cumbria has some real historical gems, but our hypothetical tourist should really get a car and visit a dozen or so on the same day. I'd add to the list:
The Bewcastle Cross. An excellent example of early English carving.
Birdoswald Roman fort.
The Gosforth Cross. An excellent example of early Norse carving (and on the way to Hardknott roman fort).
Brougham castle.
The La'al Ratty (or to give it its formal name the Ravebnglass and Eskdale rialway). Despite being turned into a tourist attraction this narrow gauge railway is a serious part of Cumbria's industrial heritage.
As for Dent once being part of Yorkshire, surely that's just stage one in the recreation of Greater Rheged?
I'd certainly stick the Portsmouth area on the national list for anyone interested in naval history. Gospot's fort is excellent, but off the beaten track.
Bristol's worth a visit for its Brunel-memorabilia.
And why has no-one mentioned Wales' castles? Most are grouped together so a tourist could do three in a day. Kidwelly in South Wales is usually overlooked and can be combined with a visit to the Welsh built Carreg Cennan.Link to this forum: The Insider's Guide to The Top Historical Sights of Old Blighty
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Message 12
Posted by Caro (U1691443) on Wednesday, 13th July 2011
Hmmm, it will be a while before I forget the Hardknott road - the car stopped going forward and we all had to get out to make it lighter! Not my favourite feeling at all.
Perhaps the "Insider's" part of this topic disqualifies me somewhat, but I will add my tuppenceworth. The cathedrals are great but as I said somewhere else today I like the ruined priories and abbeys and their history.
On our most recent trip I was very impressed with Wroxeter Roman ruins (and the new house being built and on television just while we were there, unknown in advance to us). And Maelmin in Northumbria was a wonderful piece of history with two different aspects, one a sort of thematic living area from Neolithic times down, and the other the training place for airmen in WWII where an amazing amount of them had been killed. I think of the tragedies of these young men being shot down in the air by enemy but they had hundreds of deaths just in training accidents, apparently. The story of a young Chinese man was there, and others.
And then there are all your old battlefields - Hastings/Battle perhaps the foremost. Bosworth Field was good too, though I see it may not have actually taken place where we walked. Culloden in its rather touristy way in the pouring rain had plenty of atmosphere too.
Cheers, Caro.Link to this forum: The Insider's Guide to The Top Historical Sights of Old Blighty
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Message 13
Posted by TwinProbe (U4077936) on Wednesday, 13th July 2011
Hi AR
" Dent is named after Dunaut"
You've been reading John Morris! Surely from -din (Br. hill). I love these old Cumbric (or possibly Yorkshire) survivals!
Regards,
TPLink to this forum: The Insider's Guide to The Top Historical Sights of Old Blighty
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Message 14
Posted by somewhatsilly (U14315357) on Wednesday, 13th July 2011
To pick up on cloudy's Welsh castles, I spent a week based in Bangor and was really impressed, not just by the Edwardian and Welsh castles close by which are magnificent, but also the range of other sites in the area. No matter what your favourite period is, there's something there for you from the Graig Lwyd Neolithic Axe Factory and surrounding landscape - avoid in the snow, we were verging on hypothermia - through the Great Orme B A copper mine, to Roman forts, Iron Age hillforts, medieval abbeys etc etc. Anglesey could keep me busy for a week on its own.
Link to this forum: The Insider's Guide to The Top Historical Sights of Old Blighty
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Message 15
Posted by ArweRheged (U14720560) on Wednesday, 13th July 2011
...but everything JM says is trew.....
Joking aside, I suspect the real etymology of Dent has nothing to do with putative Dark Age warlords and probably doesn't relate to hills either. I reckon the name comes from the river which runs through the valley - the Dee. I'd wager a crisp tenner that "Dee" is an Old Cumbric/Brythonic form which derives from the same root word as Deur/Deira and which is echoed in a number of other river names.
Regards,
A RLink to this forum: The Insider's Guide to The Top Historical Sights of Old Blighty
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Message 16
Posted by Stoggler (U14387762) on Wednesday, 13th July 2011
Just to add my suggestions, in no particular order:
--Bath - beautiful Georgian city with fantastic architecture, beer, and vibe
--Wells - for the cathedral (and for you to wonder how somewhere so small can be called a city! And for fans of Hot Fuzz, which was filmed there)
--Chichester - good to see my nearest city being mentioned on this thread. Nice cathedral, nice small Georgian city with good shops, some lovely tea rooms, a bakers with the best cupcakes(!), good pubs, plus Fishbourne Roman Palace.
--if you're doing Chichester, then Arundel should be visited too - small market town with lots of antique shops, nice places to eat, and utterly dominated by the large, imposing but great Victorian neo-gothic castle
--and still in that area, for lovely summer country walks, the Arun Valley as a whole is delightful
--The great castles of Wales - mostly the Edwardian ones, but also Caerffili, Carreg Cennan
--Tenby
--EdinburghLink to this forum: The Insider's Guide to The Top Historical Sights of Old Blighty
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Message 17
Posted by Stoggler (U14387762) on Wednesday, 13th July 2011
Oh, and I forgot Norwich. Lovely city. Just don't go in winter when there's an easterly blowing!
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Message 18
Posted by Silver Jenny (U12795676) on Saturday, 16th July 2011
Bump
....in the hope someone can add historical attractions to visit in Ireland.Link to this forum: The Insider's Guide to The Top Historical Sights of Old Blighty
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Message 19
Posted by Minette Minor (U14272111) on Saturday, 16th July 2011
I agree with everything evreyone else has said! What I love about Bath is that after reading, say, Jane Austen's "Persuasion" you can march (or walk!)
around the city in the actual footsteps of the charcters, with the old place names still painted on the walls. Oxford too never disappoints but as a fan of "Morse" and "Lewis" I can't help but wonder why they spend so much time in Tom Quad or outside the Sheldonian, rambling down Turl Street or Braesnose Lane when surely they should be at the scene of the crime or police station? Pretty pictures. But there's also a lovely cafe in a church near the Sheldonian where someone was almost killed by the propeiter recentlyl Not sure if we should give this a miss next time!
But I wanted to humbley add Caerleon in South Wales, which has one of the few Roman amphitheatres left in Britain. It's more intact than that of Dorchester for example. Then there are the Gower and Pembrokeshire coastlines, littered with lovely little and large castles. Russell Crowe's "Robin Hood" was largely filmed in Pembs and he said he loved it. Praise indeed! Manorbier Castle is almost in the sea but still remains solidly grand.
Cheers Minette.Link to this forum: The Insider's Guide to The Top Historical Sights of Old Blighty
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Message 20
Posted by Minette Minor (U14272111) on Saturday, 16th July 2011
Stopped this thread dead in its tracks. Apologies.
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Message 21
Posted by CASSEROLEON (U11049737) on Saturday, 16th July 2011
Don't worry Minette It's the week-end: and what passes for the summer. They are all visiting some of the above.
CassLink to this forum: The Insider's Guide to The Top Historical Sights of Old Blighty
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Message 22
Posted by raundsgirl (U2992430) on Saturday, 16th July 2011
Maiden Castle Iron Age hill fort in Dorset (and Old Sarum in Wilts if you can, it's not that far away)
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Message 23
Posted by Gran (U14388334) on Saturday, 16th July 2011
I have always liked the looks of Pembroke Castle, partly because it looks so well built and partly because of its connections with William Marshal, who I admire, I hasten to add I have never visited it, only admired it on the internet. Aparently it is a very good example of a Norman castle.
GranLink to this forum: The Insider's Guide to The Top Historical Sights of Old Blighty
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Message 24
Posted by CASSEROLEON (U11049737) on Saturday, 16th July 2011
I am glad that my native Oxford has found some advocates..
But I still recall the shock in my teens, when the venerable and sage walls wedded to the passing of centuries and redolent with history, started getting the face-lifts that are no doubt very necessary for the sake of posterity..
That striking yellowish stone is perhaps once more as the stonemasons saw it.. But I feel a little as others would feel had it been been found necessary to paint the beautiful Greek statues of antiquity restoring them to their multicoloured original state weathered over the centuries to "classic white".
I think that Silver Jenny mentioned the Botanical Gardens, and perhaps it goes without saying that an immense part of the charm of Oxford is the intertwining of stone buildings, with parks and gardens, and rivers.
CassLink to this forum: The Insider's Guide to The Top Historical Sights of Old Blighty
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Message 25
Posted by Caro (U1691443) on Sunday, 17th July 2011
My husband has came in from our outside shed this morning, bringing a whole lot of new (touristy) teatowels brought in Britain in 2004, They include a lovely tablecloth bought in Venice.
But they have reminded me of Whitby and Captain Cook country. I think Whitby is perhaps my favourite tourist spot of all (can't say what it would be like to live in as we haven't lived there.) I liked its compactness, its abbey with all the various associations it has, its sea, the NZ connection and all the bits about James Cook, and the little dark streets. And the fish 'n' chips. And the paella.
Cheers, Caro.Link to this forum: The Insider's Guide to The Top Historical Sights of Old Blighty
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Message 26
Posted by Silver Jenny (U12795676) on Sunday, 17th July 2011
Caro, Whitby has embraced Dracula: good tourist money trap. Slightly dsconcerting to be asked where Dracula's grave is - er do vampires have graves? The fish and chips are just as good as ever.
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Message 27
Posted by Silver Jenny (U12795676) on Sunday, 17th July 2011
Cass, the Botanic Garden is best in the winter; height of the tourist season must drive the staff mad.
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Message 28
Posted by Minette Minor (U14272111) on Thursday, 21st July 2011
You are absolutely right Cass! One gone the other on the brink. So much tension of what will be next! I want them to go but have also the urge to cling to their ankles, which thankfully I'm fighting well. Just think of not having to clear away papers and files, room!
Back to the thought/question. Being Welsh one cannot escape castles - which I rather think was the original idea! They are omni-present. Dad was from Pembrokshire and we spent holidays there, looking in Welsh (his first language), and then to Northamptonshire where dad lectured in Church architecture for a small fee to back up his Clergyman's lack of income. And so every Sunday afternoon we were bundled into the mini (Tardis) before Evensong to see the sights. Norman, Early English, perpendicular, flying butresses, were just grist to the mill. It's so odd how when you are young you simply accept things.It's only now that I realize how lucky I was. What "floated my boat".
Grafton Regis Manor House when it was a family home. Such nice people who lapped up its history, kept a donkey and a white peacock called George.
Fortheringhay with its extradinary Church and castle ruins to jump over. Shutlanger Manor with its Yew hedges, perfect lawns, Old Monastry, ghosts and secret passages. Alderton with its rare triple decker pulpit and perfect setting. The one mile avenue of oaks leading to Heathencote across the A5, Watling Street, to London. Towcester, Stoney Stratford, Salsey and Whittlebury Forests, Stoke Bruerne with its "plague pit", beatiful Pavillions and Lady Chancellor who told me what it was like to be a Flapper. Stoke Woods. I was so lucky! But I plagued them all by asking about "the olden days" which they actually were please to tell me about.
Folk Lore, gossip and legends mean so much. Jacquetta of Luxemberg casting spells from a contact in Stoke Bruerne! Old news. Not many liked the Woodvilles which I've thought odd. Now there's an official walk from Stoke Bruerne, (The Boat; Andrew Woodward said he failed the 11 plus on purpose!) to Grafton Regis recommended by the Guardian. How times change.
But before disappearing, I would like to suggest "The Mitre" in Oxford, far older than the Randolph, with all mod cons. Lovely place and Lord Peter Whimsey always stayed there.Link to this forum: The Insider's Guide to The Top Historical Sights of Old Blighty
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Message 29
Posted by CASSEROLEON (U11049737) on Thursday, 21st July 2011
Minette
Funny thing about children..Ours came last Sunday for luch and I have felt this week that perhaps I can now treat them as more or less "launched".. One 38 the other 34 in a few days.
I enjoyed your post.. Lots of ghosts of yesterdays..
I think I dined with girlfriend and her estranged father visiting Oxford and staying at the Mitre in c 1961.. I recall coloured prints of racehorses - so Georgian English.
CassLink to this forum: The Insider's Guide to The Top Historical Sights of Old Blighty
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