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Joseph Banks

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  Posted by Caro (U1691443) on Sunday, 26th June 2011

  One of the most active and versatile men of the late 18th/early 19th centuries was Joseph Banks who was the scientist and botanist on board with Captain James Cook on the Endeavour which arrived at New Zealand in 1769 (and other places on the way) . His account of the trip is at
  
  
  
  Banks seemed to be involved in so many things during his life and connected to so many famous people in different fields. President of the Royal Society, interested in Africa, patron of various explorations, supporter of William Smith who made the first geological map of Britain and whose biography I read not so long ago, involved in the settlement of Australia and agriculture, and involved with the British Museum.
  
  I have been reading a wonderful book called The Rose by Jennifer Potter, all about the evolution, history, literature, mythology, and uses of the rose in all societies and cultures. It is absolutely chockerful of information and writings some of which I have barely heard of, writings from China, Persia, all over Europe, etc.
  
  In the midst of this she has a few pages on Kew Gardens鈥� association with the rose and therefore with Joseph Banks who was involved in sending a mission to China to learn about their science, manufacturing and arts. And for him, especially their plants. The first two missions were not particularly successful 鈥� China was hard to deal with in matters of trade and the roses obtained were lost en route back to England. Banks then sent his own man on behalf of Kew, William Kerr. Kept perennially short of money (鈥樷�檡ou can have little reason for money on your own account and...the less you indulge yourself in the supply of unnecessary wants...the more reserve you will make for future Indulgence鈥�, had very little contact with people of his own culture, found the climate debilitating and lost heart with the project. And took to drinking with 鈥榠nferior persons鈥� since he couldn鈥檛 afford to keep up the respect of others. He died in 1814 never having returned to England, though he perked up a bit when sent to Ceylon where he worked for two years.
  
  Banks had over 80 plants called after him, including one of these roses sent from China, the white Rosa banksiae. [My book calls it 鈥榃illiam Kerr鈥檚 one recognized rose introduction鈥�, so I presume it was the only one that actually grew from the samples he sent back.]
  
  I am just amazed at how much energy and varying activities Joseph Banks was able to fit in during his life. I think he wasn鈥檛 the only one of that type but it does seem that whenever you read of any achievements at this time, Banks crops up in a fairly major role. I can鈥檛 think of any modern-day equivalent really.
  
  Caro.

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  Posted by CASSEROLEON (U11049737) on Sunday, 26th June 2011

  Caro
  
  In his Civilization series of the late Sixties Lord Clark featured the impact of the gifted amateurs of the Eighteenth Century, a period when the aristocracy and gentry in England enjoyed unprecedented advantages, free from for example the struggles of the modern rat race approach in a world based upon competition and the survival of the fittest, both in economics and politics (sport? too)
  
  The life of the Eighteenth Century gentleman was often a very active one, and, if it was a time for some of loose and "fast" living, and the squandering of inherited wealth in gambling, for others life was much more constructive..Many tried to fit in as much as they could of both. You may have heard that Lord Sandwich, head of the Admiralty around the time I think of the Cook-Banks great expeditions to the Pacific was so keen on playing cards and gambling in any spare time that he begrudged stopping to eat. So he ordered his cooks to invent a form of food that would allow card players to eat while playing, without dirtying the cards. Hence the sandwich.
  
  Of course, in addition to competition these days we also have specialization, which militates against such all roundedness.
  
  There is, however, perhaps a more general point. I was reflecting just before getting up this morning on the short stories of Katherine Mansfield that I have taken to reading recently, and I was reflecting on just how dynamic is the world that she describes. A world full of human contact and inter-action with nature, not least because she is describing households and not nuclear families, so that, for example, the story "Sun and Moon" -that I just read this morning- features two small children amidst the preparations for some major dinner party.
  
  One is reminded of that phrase "wherever two or three are gathered together".. not only can God be there, so also can a sense of vitality. And even more so when there is a huge crowd gathered without most modern conveniences, as at Glastonbury just now. This year our son is working there. It will be interesting to hear what he has made of it all.
  
  I know that old films are often misleading because of the hand-driven camera speeds, but it is difficult to avoid the impression- even when you mentally slow down the images- that people just had to be more dynamic and get more done in the past. There is the old adage "If you want something done, ask a busy person". So when getting employment was a matter of life and death perhaps people made sure that they could at least appear to be busy.
  
  And going back to the Eighteenth Century and a world of rich patrons, the whole process of getting a backer was often less complex than in our modern systems world. And in fact the fact that landowners had wealth of their own that they could be persuaded to "gamble" on new projects was crucial to at least the first phase of the Industrial Revolution.
  
  Cass

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  Posted by Silver Jenny (U12795676) on Tuesday, 28th June 2011

  I htought I knew a lot about about Joseph Banks, Caro, but missed the rose connection. Very inteesting. I will look out for the book you mention. Poor Wiliam Kerr, he did'nt have much luck did he, and such a scant harvest from his rose samples.

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  Posted by Caro (U1691443) on Wednesday, 29th June 2011

  It's a wonderful book, Silver Jenny. Brilliantly researched and gorgeously produced too. I didn't know Banks was involved with Kew Gardens either. But the banksia rose was named after his wife, Lady Banks, not him, I have realised. I think William Kerr sent back plenty of pictures of roses and dried specimens but they were keen to have roses they could plant or take cuttings from.
  
  Sorry, Cass, not to have replied sooner - I have been a little busy. You make some good points about patronage and specialization - I'm perhaps not quite so convinced about the lack of competition. Some of those young men were very competitive in Regency England by all accounts. (Or at least by the accounts I have read.)
  
  I don't whether I think the world used to be more dynamic necessarily (and Mansfield after all was not writing of the 18th or 19th century) - at least I don't think she was. Shamefully I have only read one Katherine Mansfield story; it was actually somewhat gruesome, not what I had associated with her. But certainly whole family groups joined in adult activities more in the past. As kids we used to go to the local dances with our parents and slide on the powdered floors as well as dance with our parents and their friends. And we were taken to the local card evenings too, as long as they were at weekends or holidays.
  
  Cheers, Caro.

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  Posted by CASSEROLEON (U11049737) on Wednesday, 29th June 2011

  Caro
  
  Thanks for that.
  
  The Mansfield stories were published just after the First World War- and I must look up what Virginia Woolf thought of them, because I seem to remember that they were submitted to the printing press she ran with her husband. I got the feeling that with Miss Mansfield a rather different- but rival- young female writer, Mrs Woolf was not as open-minded as she might have been. Mansfield is so much more concise and pointed- almost cryptic at times. I am not surprised, however, that you found the story you read quite gruesome. It seems to me that many of the stories are concerned with skating on the thin ice between Heaven and Hell.
  
  Of course I think that many of the ones I have read so far belong to an early and European period. I have mentioned children called Sun and Moon, and in another story there was a scene in which three girls were bathing in a garden when they suddenly shreaked "the Englishman" and rushed to get dressed. Along with another one about a young governess going out to Munich and beyond, I have a very strong intuition that Mansfield must have visited her cousin, who was married to a German and lived in Germany.
  
  In 1905 E.M. Forster spent the summer at Nassenheide ear Stettin in Pomerania as the English tutor for the three daughters of Elzabeth von Arnim, Mansfield's cousin. It is perhaps appropriate to the gardening theme of this thread to note that Von Arnim was a best selling novelist, author of "Elizabeth and her German Garden", and the three girls that Forster taught were called April, May, and June . I believe that the popularity of the novel launched these forenames into the English speaking world. But significantly perhaps for Katherine Mansfield's own view of male-female relations Von Arnim's titled husband was/is referred to as "The Man of Wrath".
  
  Forster's biographer finds influence from him in "Elizabeth"'s later novels.
  
  Cass

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  Posted by Caro (U1691443) on Thursday, 14th July 2011

  This week our local newspaper has a full-page article about Dorothea, Lady Banks and the banksia rose. The writer, Rosemarie Smith (who I was at university studying English with), calls her 鈥榳ife of the adventurous wealthy amateur naturalist Joseph Banks of Cook 1768 鈥� 71 expedition fame鈥�. She was a 21-year-old heiress when the 36-year-old Banks married her. They had no children and Joseph鈥檚 sister Sophia lived with them. 鈥淪ophia was unconventional in the way that attracts criticism in women, with descriptions always starting with the fact she was tall.鈥� And masculine-looking with a loud voice and rude, could drive a four-in-hand, and fish. Smith says she would have been a scientist in her right today, but gave a strong supporting role to her brother then.
  
  Dorothea was a cheerful woman with a practical adventurous streak, seeming to take in her stride wandering round England in poor accommodation and attending events where 鈥楳rs B escaped pretty well as only one bowl of Porter was thrown over her gown鈥�.
  
  Their home had treasures not just from Joseph Banks鈥� interest but because both women were keen collectors, Sophia of coins, medals books, and printer and engraved ephemera, and Dorothea 鈥榓n ardent and intelligent collector of antique Chinese and Japanese ceramics, which she catalogued and displayed.
  
  It seems Banks was lucky in his choice and his household generally which supported him and 鈥榤anaged the more chaotic side of his social life鈥�. The women wore woollen clothes when he was promoting merino sheep [would more people did the same now], but drew the line, to his disgust, at wearing moss brooches.
  
  Rosemarie Smith just talks of the 鈥榟unt for background information鈥� but doesn鈥檛 say where she found her information, so I don鈥檛 know the sources. Lady Banks is mentioned in The Rose by Jennifer Potter which I am reading and is full of research, but with no details about her.
  
  Caro.

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