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The National Song Book
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Message 1.Β
Posted by Priscilla (U14315550) on Saturday, 11th June 2011
Finding an old copy of this school book browsing - and humming my way through, I realised that many of the old historic links to such songs are long forgotten. I do recall singing about 'A stout heart and a trusty sword' which was to do with - I think - the death/execution of one Trelawny - a Cornishman. I ought google up the background on this one.
Apart from whiffs of nostaglia, it was, as stated on the cover, very nationalistic. I recall enjoying the Welsh songs - esp David of the White Rock. Did many schools use this book? Indeed was it compulsary? Does anyone else recall it?
Regards, P. -
Message 2
Posted by Silver Jenny (U12795676) on Saturday, 11th June 2011
Priscilla, we had a similar book.
I never knew why Trelawney was to die, knowing nothing of Cornish history up in Yorkshire, but sang that song with gusto.
And 'Drake's Drum' -
"If the Dons sight Devon, I'll quit the port of heaven
And drum them up the channel as we drumm'd them long ago".
Perhaps it is frowned upon in education now but I am glad I learned songs and poems to decaim [when alone and not disturbing anyone.] including chunks of Shakespeare and the Books of Psalms. Learned well before I studied the texts but just loved the sound of the words..
So, like Masefield's "Vagabond"
'Dunno a heap about the why an' why
Can't say as i ever knowed.
Heaven to me's a fair stretch of sky
And Earth's jest a dusty road'. -
Message 3
Posted by stalti (U14278018) on Saturday, 11th June 2011
when i was a young whippersnapper in junior school we used to have singing lessons when we learnt sea shanties and folk songs (ie bobby shafto)
when we went on school trips we used to sing - maybe only 10 green bottles but sing
when my kids went on school trips i used to volunteer to be a parent carer - i used to sit on the back seat and try to lead the sing song - guess what - they didnt do it anymore and i had to teach them
((
ther is no longer any school song book - sad or what
st -
Message 4
Posted by raundsgirl (U2992430) on Saturday, 11th June 2011
Anybody remember schools' radio and 'Singing Together'?
We've got a 'Family Song Book' that belonged to OH's grandma.
"Oh, who will o'er the downs so free
Oh, who will with me ride?
Oh, who will up and follow me
To win a blooming bride?
Her father he has locked the door
Her mother keeps the key
But neither door nor bolt shall part
My own true love from me
But neither door nor bolt shall part
My own true love from me"
My mum used to sing that to me. She learnt it at school in the 20s
At my grammar school we learned songs by Bach, Handel, Schubert, all the really great songs, all in English.
I think we were all so lucky to have such a rich and varied education. My cousin, in spite of being very clever, went to the local Secondary Modern, but the headmaster loved to bring out any talent the pupils possessed, so he learnt stage lighting and sound, did electronics in the RAF on National Service, eventually taught for a while and ended up running his own business. Now the poor things have to do Meagre Studies and must all have a degree, however worthless. -
Message 5
Posted by PaulaG (U3004479) on Sunday, 12th June 2011
Some 60 ... phew, is it really that long ... years ago we used to sing 'The Flight of the Earls' and 'Farewell Manchester' at school. I knew 'Farewell Manchester' was tied in with the Year of the Prince, when the Bonnie Prince tried to take back the throne for the Stuarts, but I had no idea that the Earls was any other than a lovely song.
Well all these years later I've found out that it's all there in Irish History.
Ain't the Internet grand. -
Message 6
Posted by Priscilla (U14315550) on Monday, 13th June 2011
Were these songs in a National Song Bk, Paula? I don't recall either. The copy I found had words only and seemed different from the one we used at school. From that one I first learned to read music along with descants to many of the tunes.
After writing this discussion post I later caught snatches of some of the songs played at the Trooping of the Colour. So something lives on. Doiscussing this with a friend, we think we learned over 100 traditional songs from most regions of the British Isles . Little was told of the history we were singing about but in most the gist was clear enough - how we shouted the Bay of Biscay chorus which emulates both terrified sailors and a raging storm. Good stuff.
Time move on and I do not deplore what young children sing today only saddened by what is lost. Not quite though, someone will do research later and resue something of it in the dredge nets we call History. Indeed, as you say, someone has put stuff in the other net for us to troll about in.
Regards, P. -
Message 7
Posted by somewhatsilly (U14315357) on Monday, 13th June 2011
How evocative this all is, I remember the words of so many of those songs from schooldays if not always the titles. Cherry Ripe, An English Country Garden, Early One Morning, By Yonder Green Valley and so on. Strangely I have no recall of learning any Scottish ones. Handel with the choir for services despite my family's incredulity that I was allowed to take part, not being blessed with a good voice but I did have rather a good ear so I knew when to sing very, very quietly.
Despite having forgotten most of the French I learned, I can still sing many of the songs, La Vie en Rose, Boom, La Mer, Parlez moi d'amour, J'attendrai, two verses of the la Marseillaise etc, all badly and out of tune. -
Message 8
Posted by Priscilla (U14315550) on Monday, 13th June 2011
Ah yes, Early One Morning...... I recall someone asking what that girl was wailing about at dawn. Our church school headteacher must have flubbed about that one but some of the older ones being a tad more worldly explained in muffled whispers and giggles to other. I had to work it out for myself much later. No worse than the lyrics of many a pop song on the same theme these days but rather surprising content for primary tots back then..
Many of those songs refrred to battles and the tradegy of the fallen, however, whatever Men of Harlech is about, iIcan only recall the parody to that tune that begins "What's the use of wearing braces..... and goes on to extoll the virtues of wearing nothing but woad...... which we sang with gusto and thought very funny. It was a rather broad minded church school come to think of it.
Regards, P -
Message 9
Posted by PaulaG (U3004479) on Monday, 13th June 2011
Now you are asking the impossible, Priscilla, after all these years I can't remember.
I only know that we had this book of folk songs that we sang from. Our teacher was a fabulous man, his brother used to sing Mephistopheles in Faust at Covent Garden. They were very much alike, so you can imagine us impressionable 'young gels' regarded him with awe ...
Men of Harlech?
Gawd, my Welsh mother would have slayed me if I had parodied that. -
Message 10
Posted by Priscilla (U14315550) on Monday, 13th June 2011
There's Welsh and Welsh, I suppose. My half Welsh father - his mother spoke little English - not 'no' apparently because there were eight children, he used to sing 'Wales! Wales! Blxxxdy great fishes are whales.'.. I never heard the rest because my mother stopped him there. Off topic - this one was not in the National Song Book.
Drink to me Only with Thine Eyes,' was, and we encouraged to adopt a maudlin manner... how I loved that school!
Regards, P. -
Message 11
Posted by PaulaG (U3004479) on Monday, 13th June 2011
Ah, dear old Ben Johnson I believe.
Sounds best if you've had a pint or two. -
Message 12
Posted by Priscilla (U14315550) on Monday, 13th June 2011
I managed pretty well aged nine on a school third of a pint of milk - of course better now with a glass of port or three.
regards, P. -
Message 13
Posted by PaulaG (U3004479) on Monday, 13th June 2011
Weeeelll, would be wouldn't it.
Can't you just imagine it in the tavern in the old days.
I love the old folk songs, and the stories that go behind them. A real link to the past. -
Message 14
Posted by Caro (U1691443) on Tuesday, 14th June 2011
I don't remember a particular school songbook, but I do recall shanties (my favourite was Marianina), folk dancing with singing, and some popular Maori songs. I was given some old music from an aunt not long ago and one of the song books there had me rather amazed with its very nationalistic songs - and very old references - back to George III.
I have somewhere, but not unfortunately on hand, a book of political songs and chants mostly from northern England. Lancashire and Yorkshire industrial protest songs, pub songs and similar.
Cheers, Caro. -
Message 15
Posted by Priscilla (U14315550) on Wednesday, 15th June 2011
Whereas the '70's produced protest music in the folk idiom I suppose the nearest now is rap - hardly songs - more like rhythmic complaint with somewhat self centred themes. Rap is fun to write; young children love to compose it - and perform it in all the gear. But the current recorded stuff passes me by as I don't speak street too well.
The sentiments expressed in the old songs, were as you say, Caro nationalistic - sometimes extreme. Rule Britannia comes to mind and no disrespect to HM Queen intended,it would make a great National Anthem were it not for its expansionist colonial aspiration - as would Land of Hope and Glory. Ours sounds so short against the splendid long ones. I do so envy the French theirs and the Italian one is like an operetta. Great tunes we just need a change of words.
Regards, P. -
Message 16
Posted by raundsgirl (U2992430) on Wednesday, 15th June 2011
I rather like singing
'O Lord our God arise
Scatter her/his enemies
And make them fall
Confound their politics
Frustrate their knavish tricks
On Thee our hopes we fix
God save us all'
Nothing PC about that! -
Message 17
Posted by somewhatsilly (U14315357) on Wednesday, 15th June 2011
With the afore mentioned school choir, I enjoyed belting out Pomp and Circumstance 4 with its slightly less jingoistic lyrics
All men must be free.
March for Liberty with me.
Brutes and braggarts may
Have their little day,
We shall never bow the knee.
God is drawing his sword.
We are marching with the Lord.
Sing, then, brother, sing,
Giving everything,
All you are and hope to be,
To set the peoples,
Keep the peoples free.
A good rousing tune, better than the current dirge anyway. -
Message 18
Posted by PaulaG (U3004479) on Wednesday, 15th June 2011
A kindred soul who knows the Pomp and Circumstance 4
We were taught that at school.
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