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History Quiz
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Message 1.Β
Posted by Katy R (U14748743) on Friday, 13th May 2011
Hi everyone
Today's quiz question is inspired by Friday 13th - so here goes:
What other day of the week is considered bad luck in Spanish-speaking countries & why?
Good Luck
Katy -
Message 2
Posted by Harpo (U14643022) on Friday, 13th May 2011
Tuesday the 13th is considered unlucky in Spain.
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Message 3
Posted by Katy R (U14748743) on Friday, 13th May 2011
Hi Harpo
Yes that's correct and apparently it's to do with the end of the Byzantine Empire.
Over to you
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Message 4
Posted by Harpo (U14643022) on Friday, 13th May 2011
Thank you, Kathy. I don't know why they consider it unlucky. Like Friday the 13th, is it more to do with the number 13 than the actual day? Anyway, for my first ever quiz question I'll keep it simple:-
Besides Edward VIII, name another English king who wrote his abdication letter?
I'm back to work in a little while but will monitor the board as best I can this afternoon so as not to annoy participants by being absent too ling. -
Message 5
Posted by Sambista (U4068266) on Friday, 13th May 2011
John Balliol (probably English by birth)
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Message 6
Posted by Harpo (U14643022) on Friday, 13th May 2011
Sorry, Ur-Lugal.
Balliol was King of Scotland. By 'English king' I do mean King of England. -
Message 7
Posted by Anglo-Norman (U1965016) on Friday, 13th May 2011
Edward II? There is evidence that he stepped down (or was compelled to step down) in favour of his son, and lived out his life in Italy on a pension.
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Message 8
Posted by George1507 (U2607963) on Friday, 13th May 2011
James VII, or James II if you prefer fled the country was deemed to have abdicated I think. I believe he had more pressing matters on his mind at the time.
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Message 9
Posted by Harpo (U14643022) on Friday, 13th May 2011
Edward II was deposed rather than abdicated and, as far as I know, never wrote a letter of abdication. Abdication has the element of self-imposed renunciation just as in the case of Edward VIII.
James II never abdicated. He merely fled abroad and continued to claim to be the rightful king of England.
Neither of these kings are the one I had in mind. -
Message 10
Posted by CASSEROLEON (U11049737) on Friday, 13th May 2011
Harpo
As you say "wrote a letter of abdication"- I am just wondering whether Charles I might have done so at some point, when it might have been thought of as a way to help the Royalist cause if he allowed Charles to fight as King Charles II- as he did after his father's execution.
Cass -
Message 11
Posted by Daniel-K (U2684833) on Friday, 13th May 2011
Stab in the dark: did George VI have to abdicate as Emperor of India at Indian independence?
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Message 12
Posted by an ex-nordmann - it has ceased to exist (U3472955) on Friday, 13th May 2011
George III was said to have composed a letter of abdication after the loss of the American colonies which was politely declined by the parliament (without it ever having been submitted), but this may merely have been a story concocted as a ploy to advertise Shelbourne's support for the monarch after North's administration collapsed. In the end it was an unnecessary ploy in any case as North returned to power rather quicker than first had been assumed possible.
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Message 13
Posted by Harpo (U14643022) on Friday, 13th May 2011
As far as I know Charles I never wrote a letter of abdication and, knowing what I do of him, could never agree to doing such a thing.
The question concerns a king od England abdicating from the throne of England. George VI died king of England. -
Message 14
Posted by Allan D (U1791739) on Friday, 13th May 2011
Richard II?
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Message 15
Posted by Harpo (U14643022) on Friday, 13th May 2011
No, Allan. Not Richard II.
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Message 16
Posted by an ex-nordmann - it has ceased to exist (U3472955) on Friday, 13th May 2011
I'm assuming George III was way out then, since message 12 above doesn't even get a response?
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Message 17
Posted by Daniel-K (U2684833) on Friday, 13th May 2011
How about Louis of France (later Louis VIII) who was acclaimed king in 1216 but then kicked out in favour of Henry III after King John had the good sense to die?
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Message 18
Posted by Harpo (U14643022) on Friday, 13th May 2011
Nordmann,
My apologies. Due to my current preoccupations I have only just now read Message 12 and you are quite correct.
George III composed a letter of abdication in the wake of Cornwallis' surrender at Yorktown and the collapse of North's administration. George's corrupting influence on parliament was at an end and another Rockingham administration was about to form and dictate terms against him. He wrote (but never delivered) the letter which said in part:
'His Majesty is convinced that the sudden change of Sentiments of one Branch of the Legislature has totally incapacitated Him from either conducting the War [against the American colonies] with effect, or from obtaining any Peace but on conditions which would prove destructive to the Commerce as well as essential Rights of the British Nation
'His Majesty therefore with much sorrow finds He can be of no further Utility to His NAtive Country which drives Him to the painful step of quitting it for ever.'Β -
Message 19
Posted by Harpo (U14643022) on Saturday, 14th May 2011
In my haste I omitted the next part of the king's letter which incidentally was written in March 1782. George III wrote:-
'His Majesty is convinced that the sudden change of Sentiments of one Branch of the Legislature has totally incapacitated Him from either conducting the War [against the American colonies] with effect, or from obtaining any Peace but on conditions which would prove destructive to the Commerce as well as essential Rights of the British Nation.
'His Majesty therefore with much sorrow finds He can be of no further Utility to His NAtive Country which drives Him to the painful step of quitting it for ever.'
In consequence of which Intention His Majesty resigns the Crown of Great Britain and the Dominions appertaining thereto to His Dearly Beloved Son and lawful Successor, George Prince of Wales, whose endeavours for the prosperity of the British Empire He hopes may prove more Successful.'Β
It's your go, Nordmann. -
Message 20
Posted by Allan D (U1791739) on Saturday, 14th May 2011
On a pedantic note, contrary to Message 6, George III was King of Britain not King of England.
Shakespeare gives Richard II, who was King of England, the best abdication speech:
I give this heavy weight from off my head
And this unwieldy sceptre from my hand,
The pride of kingly sway from out my heart;
With mine own tears I wash away my balm,
With mine own hands I give away my crown,
With mine own tongue deny my sacred state,
With mine own breath release all duty's rites:
All pomp and majesty I do forswear;
My manors, rents, revenues I forego;
My acts, decrees, and statutes I deny:
God pardon all oaths that are broke to me!
God keep all vows unbroke that swear to thee!
Make me, that nothing have, with nothing grieved,
And thou with all pleased, that hast all achieved!
Long mayst thou live in Richard's seat to sit,
And soon lie Richard in an earthly pit!
God save King Harry, unking'd Richard says,
And send him many years of sunshine days!Β
A trifle superior to Edward VIII's "the woman I love" speech although written two centuries after the event! -
Message 21
Posted by Harpo (U14643022) on Saturday, 14th May 2011
Hi Allan,
On an even more pedantic note -
My question was about the writing of letters of abdication. I acknowledge that Message 6 may have been somewhat ambiguous by playing style off against substance.
I can't say one way or the other whether Richard II wrote a letter of abdication. He was deposed and forced to abdicate. He was king of England, and Wales, and claimed sovereignty over Ireland. Also, in Richard's day did people beiieve that an anointed king could deny their right of succession and repudiate their coronation oaths made under God? And if he could write a letter of abdication, would people accept in favour of a usurper?! I would never use Shakespeare as an authority on history but the speech is typical of his art.
George III was king of Britain which substantively made him king of England. It also made him king of Wales, and of Scotland, and of Ireland, and of the dominions.
Having said that I did frame my question somewhat craftily:-
Besides Edward VIII, name another English king who wrote his abdication letter?Β
I hope people don't feel too upset by it. Maybe both Allan and Nordmann can set a question each? -
Message 22
Posted by Allan D (U1791739) on Saturday, 14th May 2011
Dear Harpo
I am notr at all upset and I am sure you (and Nordmann) have given the absolutely correct answer. There is no evidence that the real Richard, as opposed to the Shakespearean version, made any speech let alone signed any letter. It was just an excuse to quote the Bard!
In the same scene as the speech I have quoted from above, set in Westminster Hall, Bolingbroke, in an attempt to add insult to injury, produces a list of all the crimes committed by Richard and his advisers. There follows a great piece of stage business as Richard asks for a mirror which he promptly smashes on the ground, illustrating the temporary nature of kingship according to him, and is then promptly dragged off to the Tower, leaving the paper unsigned.
It's really Nordmann's task to set a question as he got the right answer but in order to revive the thread here goes:
What unlucky event connects the 13th President of the USA with the 26th? -
Message 23
Posted by Sambista (U4068266) on Saturday, 14th May 2011
assassination kennedy lincoln
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Message 24
Posted by Sambista (U4068266) on Saturday, 14th May 2011
No, that's wrong - Kennedy was higher number - 35? 36?. Could it be McKinley not Kennedy? Garfield was earlier, of course.
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Message 25
Posted by Allan D (U1791739) on Saturday, 14th May 2011
Along on the right lines but not what I'm looking for. Neither the 13th nor the 26th President was assassinated.
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Message 26
Posted by Harpo (U14643022) on Saturday, 14th May 2011
Hi Allan,
No problem. I was not sure of your position, that all. And felt I ought to respond in case you were disputing the answer George III. 'All's well that ends well'!
No idea about your American Presidents question.
Harpo -
Message 27
Posted by Allan D (U1791739) on Saturday, 14th May 2011
As a clue, the question relates as much to the 12th and 25th Presidents as it does to the 13th and 26th.
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Message 28
Posted by Sambista (U4068266) on Saturday, 14th May 2011
Did they take over after the death of the previous president whilst in office - McKinley as 25th president, not sure about who was 12th.
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Message 29
Posted by Allan D (U1791739) on Saturday, 14th May 2011
Quite right, Teddy Roosevelt was the 26th and succeeded McKinley after he had been shot whilst opening the Pan American Exposition in Buffalo, New York in September 1901 (although medical negligence contributed to his death). The 13th President was Millard Fillmore who succeeded on the death of Zachary Taylor, the hero of the Mexican-American War, in July 1850. The deadly assassins in his case appear to have been a large bowl of cherries and a pitcher of milk. The unlucky event was trherefore the death of their predecessors which marked their first day in office.
Your go, Ur-Lu, unless Nordmann turns up. -
Message 30
Posted by Minette Minor (U14272111) on Saturday, 14th May 2011
Doesn't one write an "Instrument" of Abdication? I'm sure that Edward VIII did.
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Message 31
Posted by Peggy Monahan (U2254875) on Saturday, 14th May 2011
Doesn't one write an "Instrument" of Abdication? I'm sure that Edward VIII did.Β
Is that just a tiny bit nit-picking? -
Message 32
Posted by an ex-nordmann - it has ceased to exist (U3472955) on Saturday, 14th May 2011
A question related to the two previous two maybe?
What was to Abraham Lincoln that a lady's dramatic prevarication was to George III? -
Message 33
Posted by Allan D (U1791739) on Saturday, 14th May 2011
Doesn't one write an "Instrument" of Abdication? I'm sure that Edward VIII did.Β I think Baldwin did that for him and Edward just signed on the dotted line. The Act of OParliament which gave legal effect to his Abdication was drawn up by the Parliamentary draftsman and passed all its stages in both Houses in a single day. Edward's last duty as King was to give it Royal Assent.
In his Abdication broadcast in which he was introduced as "Prince Edward" by Sir John Reith, the Βι¶ΉΤΌΕΔ Director-General, the Abdication having already gone through, Edward referes to "having discharged my last duties as King some hours ago" presumably meaning giving assent to the Abdication Bill. -
Message 34
Posted by Allan D (U1791739) on Saturday, 14th May 2011
And many discount the authenticity of the radio broadcast Edward claiming the real authorship belonged to Winston Churchill who always denied it, stating that he was only asked to peruse the text beforehand and made a few small suggestions.
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Message 35
Posted by Minette Minor (U14272111) on Saturday, 14th May 2011
Dear Peggy,
Haven't you heard I'm nasty in that way! Nasty full stop but I did buy the Big Issue this week. Sorry interrupting. -
Message 36
Posted by an ex-nordmann - it has ceased to exist (U3472955) on Saturday, 14th May 2011
I*ll repeat the question - sorry for interrupting your interruptions.
A question related to the two previous two maybe?
What was to Abraham Lincoln that a lady's dramatic prevarication was to George III? -
Message 37
Posted by Minette Minor (U14272111) on Saturday, 14th May 2011
Dear Allan,
I had a phase where I read all I could about Wallis and Edward, not sure why, and thought W.E. so romantic but also had a family friend who was in sevice near Fort Belvedere when all was unravelling. She actually saw Baldwin and Edward argueing and the incident of Wallis's missing glove! All were told they could not leave the House until it was found and Edward stood at the top of the stairway saying he had it, he slept with it under his pillow. First hand evidence.
I think that anything Baldwin touched Edward would never have signed and Churchill was a romantic until the war when he realised what W.E. were like. His letters to them during and after the war become more and more distant. I think Edward wrote that speech himself, brave yet self-pitying. The escapades in France to Portugal and the Bahamas speak volumes. I believe they were both Nazi sympathizers and shocked Churchill. Wallis was Mussolini's nephew's mistress for a time. A long story. BUT the instrument of abdication was David's own. -
Message 38
Posted by an ex-nordmann - it has ceased to exist (U3472955) on Saturday, 14th May 2011
I*ll again repeat the question - sorry once more for interrupting your interruptions, which tend to push any unanswered question up the thread and make it difficult for people trying to find it (this the quiz thread, minette).
A question related to the two previous two maybe?
What was to Abraham Lincoln that a lady's dramatic prevarication was to George III? -
Message 39
Posted by Allan D (U1791739) on Saturday, 14th May 2011
THis must refer to two assassinations, one failed and one successful, that both took place in a theatre - the successful attempt on Lincoln by John Wilkes Booth which took place at Ford's Theatre, Washington D.C. on 14 April 1865 and the earlier unsuccessful attempt by James Hadfield .on George III which took place at the Theatre Royal, Drury Lane on 15 May 1800.
By "dramatic lady" I first thought you meant Sarah Siddons who was virtually the only thespian who could get George III and his consort to go to the theatre, which they normally detested. However you said "what" rather than "who" so I wondered if you meant the name of the play that was being performed on both occasions. In Lincoln's case it was "Our American Cousin" starring an English actress, Laura Keene. I don't know what it was in George III's case - the most dramatic part of the whole evening appears to be the two shots that were fired at him and missed while the National Anthem was playing as he later went to sleep during the course of the play. I can only hazard a guess from your clue at Goldsmith's "She Stoops to Conquer" -
Message 40
Posted by an ex-nordmann - it has ceased to exist (U3472955) on Saturday, 14th May 2011
Near enough, Allan. "Our American Cousin" was the answer I was looking for.
The shots fired at George III in Drury Lane were during a performance of Colley Cibber's "She Would and She Would Not", the prevaricating lady in (the) question. George apparently insisted that the performance continue once the would-be assassin was apprehended and then promptly fell asleep during the interval.
Over to you. -
Message 41
Posted by Minette Minor (U14272111) on Saturday, 14th May 2011
My apologies Allan.
Really. -
Message 42
Posted by Allan D (U1791739) on Saturday, 14th May 2011
Thanks, N.
Perhaps to bring Minette legitimately into the thread and link with the interruptions (!);
What caused Winston Churchill to cancel a visit to the Duke and Duchess of Windsor in 1939 and with whom did the cancellation cause him to be reunited?
(The secod part is optional but the devotees of Churchilliana as well as a recent book and TV series should know the answer). -
Message 43
Posted by Allan D (U1791739) on Saturday, 14th May 2011
Not at all, it's a fascinating topic. I was going to respond if Nordmann hadn't interrupted us(!). Feel free to answer my question. I'm sure you know the answer (at least to the first part).
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Message 44
Posted by Minette Minor (U14272111) on Saturday, 14th May 2011
Just a wild guess! I didn't realize I was illegitimately involved BUT it could have been all sorts of people. The duke of Kent was all over the place held in line by mummy, Queen Mary, so he wasn't on the list although his death which was involved with Hesse's defection can't be over-looked.
Churchill and Edward had many mutual "friends"Monkton et al, but no doubt this is a suprise! Please shock me. I'd love to know. -
Message 45
Posted by Allan D (U1791739) on Saturday, 14th May 2011
None of those distinguished folks, I'm afraid, Min. The question asks "what" rather than "who", as in Nordmann's question. Despite the political differences between Edward and Churchill and the former's notorious visit to Hitler after he surrendered the throne the two remained friends as Churchill did with the Duchess of Windsor.
On returning from his long summer holiday at Maxine Elliot's villa in the South of France Churchill would break his journey in Paris to have lunch with the Duke and Duchess at their chateau in the Bois-de-Boulogne (now owned by Mohammed al-Fayed) but what caused him to break this newly-acquired habit?
As a clue, it links in with the previous questions in this thread. -
Message 46
Posted by Minette Minor (U14272111) on Saturday, 14th May 2011
Allan, I simply want to know now! Who and why?
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Message 47
Posted by Allan D (U1791739) on Saturday, 14th May 2011
You're spoiling it for everyone else if I tell you! Doesn't your library of books on the D of W inform you? As a further clue it was not their "mutual friends" but Churchill's worst enemy that put paid to the visit.
Sleep on it, as I haven't time to write the answer before the shutters come down. If no-one responds by 2pm tomorrow I'll tell you. -
Message 48
Posted by Sambista (U4068266) on Sunday, 15th May 2011
Could the famous signal "Winston's Back" provide a minor hint?
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Message 49
Posted by Allan D (U1791739) on Sunday, 15th May 2011
Sort of, although it doesn't really provide the answer. The signal, by the Admiralty, came after Churchill's aborted visit to the Windsors which was in August 1939. The circumstances certainly signalled to Churchill himself that he would be back before very long although he very nearly wasn't.
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Message 50
Posted by Allan D (U1791739) on Sunday, 15th May 2011
Perhaps a bigger hint might be "covering Winston's back" which also provides a clue tothe second part of the question (who he was reunited with).
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