This discussion has been closed.
Posted by Mick Mac (U5651045) on Friday, 18th March 2011
The answer to Nordmann’s question concerning the son of an English monarch who was a jailbird in Dublin Castle and died with his legs off is Thomas Stukely.
As I know my answer is correct (such arrogance and presumption!) and as Nordmann has temporarily absented himself, I will set the next question now (dinner awaits!). For my own benefit and that of Islanddawn and others I am presenting this question in a new ‘Friday Quiz’ thread (more arrogance and presumption!). Excuse me, Katy.
One thing that is not in short supply on the internet is space and, on this board in particular, it should be obvious to all that a computer screen never refused ink. And it’s not refusing mine! So, keeping with Nordmann’s theme of English royalty in Ireland -
Which son of an English king had an Irish mother, was educated in Ireland and unexpectedly succeeded to his father’s crown?
Bloody 3 minute rule!
PS – Speaking of English royalty in Ireland, may I be the first to extend an Irish republican’s welcome to Queen Elizabeth II to Ireland. She will visit the Republic this coming May. I hope it will be memorable for everybody concerned and for all the right reasons, and I sincerely hop that the minority (and it is tiny) who will no doubt oppose her visit will not be allowed to steel the headlines.
, in reply to message 1.
Posted by Vizzer aka U_numbers (U2011621) on Friday, 18th March 2011
I'm thinking that this is probably pre-1066 so a pure guess is Offa.
Alfred the Great?
Not Offa, nor Alfred the Great.
, in reply to message 5.
Posted by Vizzer aka U_numbers (U2011621) on Friday, 18th March 2011
Edwy?
Sorry, Vizzer. It's not Edwy either but you are right about it being pre-1066.
, in reply to message 7.
Posted by Vizzer aka U_numbers (U2011621) on Friday, 18th March 2011
Okay I'm just going to rattle off random old English kings in the hope of pinning the tail on the donkey. How about Edmund Ironside?
Does that then imply that 'Irish' means born in 'Ireland' and 'English' means ruled in 'England' - in modern geographical terms?
Missed again, Vizzer!
His mother was Irish, the daughter of an Irish king. As far as can be known she was born in Ireland.
He was English, the son of an English king who ruled in what is the modern geographical England.
, in reply to message 11.
Posted by Vizzer aka U_numbers (U2011621) on Friday, 18th March 2011
Egbert?
Vizzer,
Not Ecgberth!
Our man married a sister of a king of Wessex and had one son. His wife left him later to become a nun!
Cnut?
I won't offer an answer because I've cheated, but was your man attributed - probably wrongly - with these lines?
Learning merits respect.
Intelligence overcomes fury.
Truth should be supported.
Falsehood should be rebuked.
Iniquity should be corrected.
A quarrel merits mediation.
Stinginess should be spurned.
Arrogance deserves oblivion.
Good should be exalted.
cant be cnut, raundsgirl... this chap had an irish mother... coz i was thinking of him too...
, in reply to message 15.
This posting has been hidden during moderation because it broke the in some way.
My last post was pulled. That's a first for me! I should be careful of my spelling. I tend to type very quickly and not read my message before posting. Apologies to everybody and here is that post pulled again:
As Bandick says it cannot be Cnut.
You are right , Temperance.
OMG… how embarrassing for you Mick Mak… so there’s clue in temps post…?
Was he from the north of England or the south… looking at the list of attributes on temps list I’m tempted to say he was born in Bethlehem… in a stable?
Bandick,
He reigned for 20 years in northern England.
Tempserance's list is not a list of his attributes but a list of wise sayings attributed to him. The way things are I wouldn't be surprised if an English king, with an Irish mother, was born in a stable in Bethlehem. Obviously, anything Jesus can do the Irish/English (delete as appropriate) can do better!
Nah! I’m out… anything north of the Wimborne gap is wilderness… and covered in roaming savages.
Were you in the diplomatic corps…?
Sure, all of England is north of Wimborne!
No. I am not a retired diplomat. I'm not even retired. But I will be retiring from this thread very soon and cannot promise to be around for the rest of the day. Lunch is next. Then shopping. I will vacantly push a trolley around a supermarkey for an hour or so while my better half fills it. I'll have no say in what goes into it and, after 28 years of marriage, know better than to suggest anything that might go into it! Then there's the small matter of a rugby match and after that I am going out for the evening.
So. Do people want me to post the answer? I'm sure most have googled it by now anyway.
, in reply to message 15.
Posted by Vizzer aka U_numbers (U2011621) on Saturday, 19th March 2011
Going by Temperance's clues then it's probably someone relatively famous - Athelstan?
Hi Vizzer.
Not Aethalstan. Bandick has tried to finesse another clue (he has obvioulsy googled the answer). This king's estranged wife founded the original Sxaon church in Wimborne, Dorset, and she was a sister of King Ine of Wessex.
I'll be off out at 2.30p.m.
He most certainly has not goggled the answer… anything north of Wimborne is a figure of speech down yer… ooh arhhh.
And I’d given up… but you’ve just given me the clue and I know who you mean now… just cant remember his name…
Sorry, Bandick, for thinking the worst of you!
I'm off out again now so I'll give one more clue for anyone still interested:
This king was the first to issue Northumbtian coinage stamped with his own name inscribed in Irish uncial script.
Won't be back till tomorrow unless I'm home before midnight.
now that is irish... unless your a dirty little stop out.
, in reply to message 28.
Posted by Herewordless (U14549396) on Saturday, 19th March 2011
The only king who had an Irish mother was Eardwolf?
Anyone been following the Nectansmere discussion? I've been reading about it & recall that Ecgfrith was killed there, and Aldfrith (aka Aldfrid) took over & hadthe progenitors outlined in the Q.
Won't be back till tomorrow unless I'm home before midnight.Â
Eminently logical, Bandick, and to prove it I'm here! Just saw Jeff Bridges in the remake of True Grit. A lovely film once I'd got my ear in with his accent.
That 3 minute rule is a killer!
Man Alive,
The only king who had an Irish mother was Eardwolf?Â
Can't say I know that. Can you elaborate on her?
At last! You are correct, Ur-Lugal.
Most of the rest of this post I had pre-prepared ………
Aldfrið/Aldfrith/Aldfrid [ ].
He was a younger son of Oswiu, King of Northumbria, and of FÃna, daughter of Colmán RÃmid, the Uà Néill king of Tara. Aldfrið, who was illegitimate and would have been reared by his mother and her family in Ireland, was never destined to rule and was educated for the church instead. That education was entirely an Irish one and mostly undertaken in Ireland where he achieved recognition as a sage, poet and scholar.
Bede informs us that ‘there were many of the English nation, both of noble and of lesser rank, who, whether for divine study or to lead a more continent life, had left their native land and had withdrawn into Ireland.’ Aldfrið was one such. In Ireland he was known as Flann FÃna (= Flann son of FÃna). FÃna was a niece or cousin of another learned Irishman, Cenn Fáelad, the famed abbot of the monastery at Bangor which was a centre of learning at the time.
Aldfrið’s father Oswiu died in 670 and was succeeded by Ecgfrið, Aldfrið’s half-brother, who would be killed 15 years later at the battle of Nechtanesmere (aka Dunnichen) in 685. Aldfrið, by a strange twist of fate and with the help of his half sister and St Cuthbert, was plucked from relative obscurity on Iona to become king of a nascent Northumbria which he ruled successfully until his death in 705. He seems to have been a wise and goodly king who presided over the beginnings of that cultural flowering that blossomed into Northumbria’s Golden Age and produced the famed Lindisfarne Gospels.
Bede said of him that he had: ‘devoted himself to study among the Irish, submitting to a voluntary exile for the love of learning’[Life of St Cuthbert, Ch 24]. Elsewhere, Bede says he was ‘well read in the scriptures’ and ‘a man most learned’ [Ecclesiastical History].
For anyone interested the following link provides a handy article about Aldfrið and his father’s life and lineage which I would recommend (see pages 7-11): ftp://ftp.uic.edu/pub/library/scua/Heroic%20Age/2006.09.04.HA.pdf .
Ur-Lugal, I think you can set a question now if you wish.
That link failed. Here it is again:
ftp://ftp.uic.edu/pub/library/scua/Heroic%20Age/2006.09.04.HA.pdf
Good job I didn’t answer the question… I’d have got it wrong… was thinking of another royal at Wimborne.
I picked up Jeff Bridges in my cab a few years ago… with his family…
I dropped some people off, and before I knew it they were in… even in the dark I recognised him… but he had heard my music playing and wouldn’t get out… he sat up front with me and was fliking thru my cd’s, Sweet Â鶹ԼÅÄ Alabama came on, and he told his family to shut up in the back, listen to the music… I used to play with these guys he said… and told me loads of wild wild tales… he’d just flown in from somewhere and was jetlagged… complained to me about his wife sat in the back buying him a bunch of flowers… I said I wish someone would buy me flowers and she spent the time leaning over my seat threading them thru my hair… he was happy playing my cd’s and chatting… his wife told the kids to be quiet and listen to them two old farts up the front yappin like a couple of old buddies…
He took my number when he got out at his hotel, and got me to pick them up quite a few more times… what a nice genuine man… I used to like watching 'sea hunt' when I was a kid… his father was ‘Mike Nelson underwater investigator’…
That link refuses still to cooperate. However, if you copy and paste it to your URL address line it will work fine. The site is bona fide and you can download the PDF file from it safely.
Bandick,
Jeff Bridges’ father was Lloyd Bridges. I remember Sea Hunt as well. It’s probably my age (being now in my late 50s) but I have a penchant for a good western, a genre that has faded in recent decades although there have been some excellent modern examples. I very much liked Dances with Wolves and the John Barry score is just wonderful.
Of course, Gene Roddenberry supposedly regarded Star Trek as basically a Western in structure & plotting terms. Still no-one has done it better then John Houston imo.
I'm out for the rest of the day so would rather not set a question - anyone else, please feel free.
1790 (1796 for Irish ladies)
1814 and 1870
1941
1973
Why might these dates have been of interest to Henry VIII?
Need a tinsy winsy clue temps…
The old boy would have been foaming at the mouth, ranting about liberalism gone mad.
The dates of the closed season for chopping wives heads off…?
Strewth temps… this is going to turn out so obvious init.
Not chopping ladies' heads off, but you are on the right lines for one date. Remember the official sentence? To be ? or beheaded at the king's pleasure.
Wasn't it 'burned'? Something about methods of execution?
To be burned or beheaded at the king's pleasure, is the official sentence… I think, but the dates…?
Abolition of suffrage
The end of ducking stools
No more burning witches, hags or nags
Prevention of sati
Alteration to the divorce laws
Women’s rights of some description
I gotta close me eyes for a bit…
Execution for what?
Burning - which date and why significant?
Don't get bogged down with women, bandick.
1973 - abolition of execution for murder in Northern Ireland.
Murder is not the crime that links these dates.
Adultery or divorce then?
And best not to be caught forging the King's Coin either - that counted as my crime. The poor Murphy girl found that out as she went down in English legal history.
Are we talking treason here? Certainly carnal knowledge of the queen was considered such and forgery as well I think. Arson in the royal dockyards? There's an urban myth that that's still punishable by death but it's not true. Beheading for treason was formally abolished in 1973.
I think it's something about the abolition of the death penalty in its various guises. Unless I spend the rest of the evening with Mr Google, that's as far as I can go, over to someone else.
The History message boards are now closed. They remain visible as a matter of record but the opportunity to add new comments or open new threads is no longer available. Thank you all for your valued contributions over many years.
or  to take part in a discussion.
The message board is currently closed for posting.
The message board is closed for posting.
This messageboard is .
Find out more about this board's
Â鶹ԼÅÄ Â© 2014 The Â鶹ԼÅÄ is not responsible for the content of external sites. Read more.
This page is best viewed in an up-to-date web browser with style sheets (CSS) enabled. While you will be able to view the content of this page in your current browser, you will not be able to get the full visual experience. Please consider upgrading your browser software or enabling style sheets (CSS) if you are able to do so.