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The most inaccurate historical movie?
This discussion has been closed.
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Message 1.Μύ
Posted by somewhatsilly (U14315357) on Wednesday, 16th February 2011
This list is one suggestion for the 10 most inaccurate historical movies.
I'm sure you have your own candidates. The biblical epics being a bit of an easy target, I'll put forward 'Land of the Pharaohs' for a start. -
Message 2
Posted by Vizzer aka U_numbers (U2011621) on Wednesday, 16th February 2011
As the list gives 'Braveheart' and 'The Patriot' then those are obviously seconded.
But before any British readers start getting too smug I would also add 'Lawrence of Arabia' (1962) to the list. For a start the film features weapons and aircraft from after the First World War. For example the Browning .30 machine gun M1919 (as the name suggests) wasn't made until 1919 - i.e. after the First World War, while the De Havilland Tiger Moth biplane didn't come into service until 1931 - more than a whole decade after the events depicted. Not only that, but the American character Jackson Bentley talks to Prince Feisal about trying to get America into the war, in a scene which takes place after the fall of Aqaba. However, since Aqaba fell on 6 July 1917 then the US had already been in the war for 3 months. -
Message 3
Posted by Big Nose Kate (U2898677) on Wednesday, 16th February 2011
I would put Gunfight at OK Corral near the top of my list as the only things they got right were that the fighting Earps and Dr John Henry 'Doc' Holliday DDS had a gunfight against the Clantons and the McLaurey's in Tombstone. That's were the facts stop. My Darling Clementine which also covers the OK Corral fight is even worse for accuracy.
The real gunfight lasted 30 seconds leaving three dead and two seriously wounded and didn't take place in the OK Corral.
In Gunfight at OK Corral the fight is preplanned. It was not. James Earp was killed the night before the gunfight. Wrong. Wyatt Earp was a US Marshal and the leader of the Earps/ Holliday. Wrong. Virgil Earp carried a Deputy US Marshals commission and was Town Marshal. Morgan, Wyatt and Doc were special deputies sworn in to help Virgil disarm the Cowboys.
In My Darling Clementine it has the Earps as cattle men driving a herd through Tombstone. Wrong. The Earps were gamblers and lawmen and Tombstone wasn't a cow town but a mining camp. It also has Virgil being killed before the fight. He died in 1905. According to the film Doc was a surgeon when in fact he was a dentist who was also comsumptive -
Message 4
Posted by Grumpyfred (U2228930) on Wednesday, 16th February 2011
But since when has any movie maker let the truth get in the way of a good story? We could make an endless list of just Erol Flynns films. They died with their boots on, Robin of Sherwood. Charge of the Light Brigade, The Sea Hawk Add to that most of the Custer films made. A bridge to far, Oh in most British made WW1 films, Tiger Moths fill in for WW1 fighters.
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Message 5
Posted by miss elizabeth (U10895934) on Thursday, 17th February 2011
Oooooh, I was going to mention The Tudors! But it isn't a film
and this message board isn't big enough. -
Message 6
Posted by cloudyj (U1773646) on Thursday, 17th February 2011
Charge of the Light BrigadeΜύ
I may have misremembered this, but doesn't the film move th Indian Mutiny to before the Crimean War?
From the screenjunkies list: "2.βApocalyptoβ βWhatβs most heinously wrong with βApocalyptoβ is the ending, during which a young Mayan man encounters Conquistadors. Given the state of the Mayan empire depicted in the film, the events of βApocalyptoβ take place hundreds of years before Cortes showed up. He fought the Aztecs, not the Mayans, after all."
Either my version's heavily editied or the critic has a keener eye for Mayan dress sense than I do (admittedly the bad guys do look a little Toltecan clothing-wise hinting at the late classical period). But to talk of a Mayan Empire smacks of Mayan "history" from before we could translate Mayan heiroglyophs. Mayan cities were flourishing right up to the point of contact with the Spanish, and more importnatly, the ones on the coast where the Spanish arrived (such as Cozumela and Tulum). As for Cortes fighting the Aztecs, nowhere in the film are the Spanish identified as Cortes, but even if it did he most certainly had substantial contact with the Maya.
"King Arthur" (the Clive Owen, Kiera Knightly version) started off promisingly (being based on a recent theory that the knights were Sarmations) then blew it all on the pIctish and Saxon costumes, the latter being more at home in C12th France than C6th Britain. -
Message 7
Posted by George1507 (U2607963) on Thursday, 17th February 2011
'Land of the Pharoahs' - what an awful movie. Anything with Joan Collins in it is highly suspect, but even by her standards, that was a real clunker.
One Million Years BC had man and dinosaurs coexisting which is a timing error of just 65 million years, but it did have Raquel Welch in a small furry bikini, so that makes it an excellent movie for my money.
There were loads of WWII movies starring people like John Wayne and Audie Murphy that were just plain stupid. Sands of Iwo Jima, Halls of Montezuma spring to mind. I can't recall how factually accurate they were, but the hero always managed to run up the hill into a hail of bullets from half a dozen Japanese machine gun nests, and emerge unscathed.
Lawrence of Arabia, The English Patient (or was it the Patient English) and anything of that ilk is usually rubbish too.
My award for the most stupid fabrication, re-creation, rewriting and desecrating of history goes to Bonnie Prince Charlie, starring David Niven. -
Message 8
Posted by somewhatsilly (U14315357) on Thursday, 17th February 2011
Nooooooo, I'd forgotten the full horror of B.P.C., now it's back and I'll have to try to forget it again.
What about Yul Brynner as a sensitive, caring Ghengis Khan? -
Message 9
Posted by George1507 (U2607963) on Thursday, 17th February 2011
ROFL - I haven't seen Genghis Khan - and I won't!
There was a recent movie about Attila the Hun, with Gerard Butler and Alice Krige. That was a load of old rubbish as well.
I did learn something I didn't know though - apparently Roman legionnaires wore Adidas training shoes in battle. I had no idea...
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Message 10
Posted by Mike Alexander (U1706714) on Thursday, 17th February 2011
U-571, the one where the Americans captured the first naval enigma machine. Even though the British captured one from U-110, before the US had even entered the war.
Enigma, in which a character clearly based on Alan Turing is depicted as being heterosexual.
Battle of the Bulge, which merits virtually a full page of historical inaccuracies in wikipedia. -
Message 11
Posted by Stoggler (U14387762) on Thursday, 17th February 2011
I found a website recently that had a whole long page just to the first two-and-a-half minutes of Braveheart, chock-a-block full of historical errors! I'll see if I can find it.
I admit, I do like Braveheart and before seeing the film I knew nothing of the man and his deeds. But I can't help laughing at all the historical accuracies - perhaps a drinking game can consist of taking a sip every time you see or hear a historical inaccuracy - I'd be legless by the end of the film! -
Message 12
Posted by Stoggler (U14387762) on Thursday, 17th February 2011
Here it is:
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Message 13
Posted by George1507 (U2607963) on Thursday, 17th February 2011
Good grief - I'd be in a coma before Mel Gibson even appeared!
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Message 14
Posted by islanddawn (U7379884) on Thursday, 17th February 2011
Can't believe that Troy was left out of the top 10.
The inaccuracies are too numerous to list but some of the most memorable and laughable are
llamas running around market places, but at least there were also some donkeys which were geographically accurate.
Talk of Sparta's harbour when Sparta is actually inland.
Helen mentioning that she didn't go to Sparta until her marriage to Menelaus when, in fact, she was the daughter of the King of Sparta and Menelaus was a prince of Mycenae. Menelaus only gained the throne of Sparta through his marriage to Helen.
Achilles trys to whimp out of fighting by disguising himself as a girl but as we couldn't have Brad in such feminine attire we've got him dressed as an outdated hippy with hair flowing and seashells rattling.
Patroclus is somehow turned into "just a cousin", I suppose it isn't done for Brad to be gay either.
Menelaus is killed by Hector when Menelaus survives the war and returns to Sparta to live happily ever after with Helen.
ΒιΆΉΤΌΕΔr must be spinning in his grave. -
Message 15
Posted by raundsgirl (U2992430) on Thursday, 17th February 2011
ANY film about Robin Hood (or tv series for that matter)
'Anne of the Thousand Days' (excuse me, but wasn't Henry VIII a redhead?)
'Immortal Beloved' A film about Beethoven and the woman to whom one of his works was dedicated. The makers appear to have made a list of possible candidates then someone wearing a blindfold stuck a pin in it. Or else they chose the least likely (his sister-in-law)and made a very feeble argument for her being the one.
My husband and I gave it 10/10 for the music and scenery (Prague stood in for Vienna again, and the music was Beethoven's) 1/10 for doing their best with a lousy script for the acting, and -10 for the story. -
Message 16
Posted by George1507 (U2607963) on Friday, 18th February 2011
Yes, that's an excellent point. Always seek out Robin Hood movies and avoid them like the plague.
It always amazed me that I got absolutely filthy after a couple of hours playing in the woods as a child. Yet here were people who lived in Sherwood Forest, seemed to sleep on the ground, but were always immaculately turned out in their little tunics and tights. Men in tights - uuuurgh. Whatever did Maid Marion and her impressive heaving bosoms ever see in men in tights? -
Message 17
Posted by mismatched (U14242423) on Friday, 18th February 2011
No one has mentioned the immortal Gone with the Wind, a film that gave a benevolent version of the "Old South" to millions of people including Americans and probably did not help the Civil Rights movement.
Not that I give a damn, it is a great book -
Message 18
Posted by TimTrack (U1730472) on Friday, 18th February 2011
There were loads of WWII movies starring people like John Wayne and Audie Murphy that were just plain stupid. Sands of Iwo Jima, Halls of Montezuma spring to mind. I can't recall how factually accurate they were, but the hero always managed to run up the hill into a hail of bullets from half a dozen Japanese machine gun nests, and emerge unscathedΜύ
Actually, in the 'The Sands Of Iwo Jima', John Wayne's character gets killed.
On that basis, I nominate your post as the most inaccurate on this thread.
As Audie Murphy did emrege, though not entirely unscathed, from the second world war I can forgive a little inaccuracy from him. -
Message 19
Posted by islanddawn (U7379884) on Friday, 18th February 2011
"Yes, that's an excellent point. Always seek out Robin Hood movies and avoid them like the plague."
Along the same line would be all the Arthur, Lancelot, Gwenevere and Merlin movies.
Aside from the fact that Norman style knights and their ladies were not prancing around late or post Roman Britain, the cast of characters more than likely did not exist and swords don't get stuck inside rocks. -
Message 20
Posted by BashfulAnthony (U10740638) on Friday, 18th February 2011
Zulu! -
Message 21
Posted by Mike Alexander (U1706714) on Friday, 18th February 2011
A great many films with a medieval setting feature castle interiors with bare stone walls. I read recently that castle interiors were usually plastered, which makes about 90% of films set in this era historically inaccurate!
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Message 22
Posted by Temperance (U14455940) on Friday, 18th February 2011
In the 1971 film of "Mary, Queen of Scots" Mary has a vicious slanging match with Elizabeth I - I think it happens in a wood near Tutbury. Friedrich Schiller could get away with such nonsense, but not Hal B. Wallis.
"Cleopatra" starring Liz Taylor is an absloute corker. Liz looks stunning, but her acting is terrible. And some of her lines! I think she tells Julius Caesar at one point that he has knobbly knees. MInd you, that might be historically accurate - you never know.
I read a lovely description of "The Tudors" recently. The critic called the series "bejewelled drivel". -
Message 23
Posted by BashfulAnthony (U10740638) on Friday, 18th February 2011
I recollect one western film, unfortunately it was a long time ago and I don't recall the name, but it had Burt Lancaster in, and he was fighting Apache renegades (dressed in an un-Apache like white jump-suits) ,and after a brief skirmish, pinned one down. He then said, "I'm trying to help you." To which the renegade Apache replied, "I don't accept charity."
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Message 24
Posted by lolbeeble (U1662865) on Friday, 18th February 2011
To be fair, Troy is not so much based on a historical event as the epic cycle of Greek mythology. It may take a few liberties with the script but then that is what all bards have done. That doesn't take away the fact the film is extremely ponderous and lasts almost as long as the siege of Troy itself.
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Message 25
Posted by islanddawn (U7379884) on Friday, 18th February 2011
"Cleopatra" starring Liz Taylor is an absloute corker. Liz looks stunning, but her acting is terrible. And some of her lines! I think she tells Julius Caesar at one point that he has knobbly knees. MInd you, that might be historically accurate - you never know."
Nah, all those miles of walking when on compaign JC's leg muscles would have been huge.
I remember one scene, Liz aka Cleopatra being recieved with much fanfare and fuss by the senate when she arrived in the Roman Forum. When, if fact, Cleopatra never ventured inside Rome. As a foreign ruling monarch she was not permitted to cross the Pomerium and was therefore housed outside the city boundaries. -
Message 26
Posted by raundsgirl (U2992430) on Friday, 18th February 2011
΄ά³ά±τ³ά!Μύ
Oy!! Leave my favourite film alone! -
Message 27
Posted by BashfulAnthony (U10740638) on Friday, 18th February 2011
Oy!! Leave my favourite film alone!Μύ
I absolutely agree - a super film; but historically inaccurate (very!) But in fairness, the director, Cy Endfield, acknowledged that it wasn't accurate; but wasn't intended to be history. -
Message 28
Posted by MB (U177470) on Saturday, 19th February 2011
I must admit I get annoyed when I read of a film being criticised because the actors spoke with American accents. It seems that the characters in any historical film are supposed to speak RP English, whatever country it is set in.
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Message 29
Posted by Temperance (U14455940) on Saturday, 19th February 2011
Sometimes though an American accent really just won't do.
John Wayne as the Centurion at the foot of the Cross drawling out, "Truly this man was the Son of God" was a truly awful moment.
Apparently in the first take he said, "Gee, truly this man..."
George Stevens made him do it again. -
Message 30
Posted by Temperance (U14455940) on Saturday, 19th February 2011
Forgot to give name of film - "The Greatest Story Ever Told" (1965). -
Message 31
Posted by islanddawn (U7379884) on Saturday, 19th February 2011
Alexander also came under much criticism for it's historical inaccuracy and for just about everything else too. Oh and I remember there was much poo pooing because of Colin Farrell's Irish accent in the role.
But I agree with Temp, there are some movies when American accents are also highly inappropriate. -
Message 32
Posted by MB (U177470) on Saturday, 19th February 2011
But a Shakespearean actor speaking "posh" English would be considered perfectly acceptable by many even though a Roman centurion would quite likely have spoken some form of colloquial version of Latin (might even have used their equivalent of "Gee"!).
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Message 33
Posted by lolbeeble (U1662865) on Saturday, 19th February 2011
I thought the John Wayne story was more that George Stevens was unhappy at the way the line was delivered in the first take rather than it was prefaced with Gee. Having stopped filming he told John that his line had to be said with awe. It was only then that John delivered the immortal line "aww, truly this man was the son of God".
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Message 34
Posted by stalti (U14278018) on Saturday, 19th February 2011
but as the late great Buckskins used to say "if u want to learn history read a book - if u want to be entertained see a film"
ZULU - my favourite film of all time - bit innacurate but the first time anyone in this country had ever heard of these superb people
not a bad thing -
st -
Message 35
Posted by raundsgirl (U2992430) on Saturday, 19th February 2011
Some of us had heard of them before, Stalti! It is my favourite too, though, and no matter how many times I've seen it, that bit where the long line of Zulu warriors suddenly appear on top of the ridge makes cold shivers run down my spine. It may be innaccurate, but at least it wasn't just 'heroic white men beat off native hordes' stuff. The Zulus were presented as noble and heroic too.
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Message 36
Posted by Mike Alexander (U1706714) on Monday, 21st February 2011
But a Shakespearean actor speaking "posh" English would be considered perfectly acceptable by many even though a Roman centurion would quite likely have spoken some form of colloquial version of Latin (might even have used their equivalent of "Gee"!).
Μύ And Shakespeare's company would probably have spoken in something closer to a modern American accent than RP English. -
Message 37
Posted by Charles Babbage (U2239092) on Monday, 21st February 2011
I think JFK deserves an honorable mention amongst historically inaccurate movies.
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Message 38
Posted by BashfulAnthony (U10740638) on Tuesday, 22nd February 2011
It was only then that John delivered the immortal line "aww, truly this man was the son of God".Μύ
Was that the scene when he held up his hand and was wearing a watch? I'm not sure! -
Message 39
Posted by White Camry (U2321601) on Tuesday, 22nd February 2011
Speaking of John Wayne in historical laffers, who can forget his memorable turn as Genghis Khan in "The Conqueror," with Susan Hayward as Mrs. Genghis Khan?
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Message 40
Posted by glen berro (U8860283) on Tuesday, 22nd February 2011
Was it 'Robin Hood Prince of Thieves' where they travelled from the south coast of England to Sherwood Forest via Hadrian's Wall? A rather circuitous route, methinks.
I've sat next to to the tree featured on the wall scene. -
Message 41
Posted by stalti (U14278018) on Thursday, 24th February 2011
hi raundsgirl
in 1962 how had u heard of them - no one else had !!
i saw the film and afterwards read HR Haggards trilogy of the zulus which led me to a lifelong interest in them
as with you that scene was fantastic to me - it was half of the flm as a build up then intense action - wonder if this film is what Jaws was based on
the innaccuracies are so insignificant only the nerds point them out lol
ie some guns werent martini henrys
stanley baker - the co producer must take great credit for this as he had a great empathy with the zulu people - it was him that was going to make zulu dawn before he died - wish h had as it was crap
u must read "ZULU - and some guts behind it " - the story of the film
st -
Message 42
Posted by Grumpyfred (U2228930) on Thursday, 24th February 2011
i watched the Russell Crows Robin Hood. I ask you, flat bottomed landing craft complete with drop down flap, loaded with both men and horses and powered only by men paddling as if in a canoe.
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Message 43
Posted by Big Nose Kate (U2898677) on Thursday, 24th February 2011
Fred add to that Dungeness where the French invasion took place in the film is a pebble beach with no cliffs within 10 miles and the surrounding area is marshland. In the film the area has a sandy beach and cliffs and the surrounding area is downland
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Message 44
Posted by raundsgirl (U2992430) on Thursday, 24th February 2011
in 1962 how had u heard of them - no one else had !!Μύ
I had an education, stalti! What's more I read a lot and remember all sorts of totally useless facts!
Can't remember when I first saw it, though. I definitely remember watching it whilst on the Isle of Wight which I think would be 1966 (had seen it before, though) -
Message 45
Posted by stalti (U14278018) on Friday, 25th February 2011
hi Raundsgirl
hey i wasnt suggesting u were uneducated lol
i was also educated - in fact i was at junior school waiting for the 11 plus - but even i hadnt heard of the Zulus
its my most favourite film of all time - i saw it 17 times in the flicks - 3 times in one day lol
st -
Message 46
Posted by Jak (U1158529) on Saturday, 26th February 2011
That's strange, Stalti. I'd certainly heard about the Zulus, and especially about Rorke's Drift, at my (very ordinary) junior school in the 1940s - and also I think in the Boy Scouts, which I was in then - before going to (another very ordinary) grammar school. We heard about it all again when we reached the 19th century in lessons. I don't think they told us much about Isandhlwana, though.
So the Stanley Baker film - which came out in 1964 - was no great surprise to me. Or at least I already knew what the end would be.
But, yes, of course Rorke's Drift was a bit closer in time in my day, and a lot has happened since. And maybe history teaching ain't what it was, when I were a lad. -
Message 47
Posted by Jak (U1158529) on Saturday, 26th February 2011
But blimey! You've seen it 17 times!
I thought I was odd, having seen the 1930 "All Quiet on the Western Front" about a dozen times.
And unlike those other record-holders, I've never ever seen "The Sound of Music". I hear that it's filled with errors too. -
Message 48
Posted by JB on a slippery slope to the thin end ofdabiscuit (U13805036) on Saturday, 26th February 2011
"Was it 'Robin Hood Prince of Thieves' where they travelled from the south coast of England to Sherwood Forest via Hadrian's Wall?"
Yes, and all in a day.
You need to distinguish different kinds of innacuracy. The wrong kind of tanks or helicopters is often a matter of practicality. As Ridley Scott explained, for Blackhawk Down, it would have been a lot easier to use Hueys, but, er, that title? To use real Blackhawks he needs the co-operation of the US military, which meant he wasn't allowed to be critical of them, a much more significant restriction.
(And then there was the brazen repeated references to cowardly old President CLINTON!!! -did we write his name big enough? and the character who says he's not a coward because he is from Texas, not Arkansas, and all this in the 2000 Presidential election campaign.)
And I'm not so bothered by Jamie Winstone's hot pants in 'Made In Dagenham' when these did not appear until 1970 and the film is set in 1968, but rather more so by the references to the post-Prague Sprong leftie splinters the WRP, SWP etc when these have yet to make any impact in the manner depicted in the story.
My particular gripe is the film and TV series about Colditz which glosses over the incarceration of many other ranks in dungeons where they worked as slave-labour doing the posh boys' laundry while they played at digging tunnels. -
Message 49
Posted by White Camry (U2321601) on Monday, 28th February 2011
"2001: A Space Odyssey"
Really, really off. -
Message 50
Posted by shivfan (U2435266) on Tuesday, 1st March 2011
I liked this quote about the Patriot....
'There are a lot of things wrong with βThe Patriot,β one of the ten most historically inaccurate movies. British newspaper The Times put it better than we ever could: βThere is evidence that Francis Marion, the basis for Gibsonβs character, was a slave-owning serial rapist who murdered Cherokee Indians for fun.β'
Very true....
And that Tarantino film 'Inglorious...whatever' was absolute rot, and very disappointing, for a film done by someone with his rep.
But some of my own additions:
'Other Boleyn Girl' - so appallingly full of errors, that it made the Tudors look like an absolutely flawless portrayal of life during Henry VIII.
'Marie Antoinette' - that film with Kirsten Dunst as the poor French queen was an another load of tosh.
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