Βι¶ΉΤΌΕΔ

History HubΒ  permalink

Gypsies and Travellers

• Message 1.Β 

  Posted by shivfan (U2435266) on Sunday, 13th February 2011

  I recently discovered that my great-great-grandmother was a gypsy from Marseilles, a fact that the family had been trying to hush up, because they were ashamed of it....
  
  But I've since discovered that those who are called 'gypsies' in the UK are more likely to be 'travellers' from Ireland, a distinctly different ethnic group. However, when I checked some figures, it was estimated that there were 300,000 people in Britain who were either travellers or Roma (gypsies). How can these two groups be lumped together? Yes, they roam around in caravans, but they are two distinct ethnic groups.
  
  Does anyone have any more accurate figures that can separate these two ethnic groups? Are most of the travellers in the UK Irish or Roma? While the Irish travellers reputedly came over when they were made landless in Ireland, when did the Roma gypsies come to England? Or did any Roma gypsies actually come to England in any significant numbers at all?

  Link to this forum: Gypsies and Travellers

  Report message1

• Message 2

  , in reply to message 1.

  Posted by stanilic (U2347429) on Sunday, 13th February 2011

  shivfan
  
  Snap!
  
  I discovered a rather odd circumstance in my mother's family where two great-great grandparents were gypsies in disguise. They and their offspring were outwardly mainstream people except for a great cunning in business. Sadly, that bit missed me.
  
  I rumbled their calm deceit as one was German, probably Roma, and the other was of Scots origin but they married in Barnet the day before the horse-fair. The groom's clan were horse-dealers and the bride's family were cattle-drovers. The married couple set up in business as bakers in Richmond, Surrey.
  
  The railway had killed the wealth in both horse-dealing and cattle-droving, so like rational people they gave up the life-style and moved on into mainstream society. This does not mean they were ashamed on their origins. For my part I am very proud of both clans who were independent tradesmen who worked hard and paid their way in life.
  
  The reason most gypsies, both Roma, Scots and Irish came to England is that with the evolution of agriculture brought about by burgeoning towns anxious for food there was work to be had and a living to be made. There was an economic need for itinerant labour in the countryside and they provided it. The relationship between the farmers and the itinerants was mutually supportive. Now that there is less need for such itinerant labour those that remain on the road are now largely homeless: hence the manifest difficulties all over the country.
  
  I do find it ironic that some gangmasters are recruiting itinerant labour to work in the fields of East Anglia from Romania of all places. Nothing changes, does it?
  
  I must confess to being a bit puzzled by what is now called gypsy culture? It is nothing I recognise.

  Link to this forum: Gypsies and Travellers

  Report message2

• Message 3

  , in reply to message 2.

  Posted by raundsgirl (U2992430) on Sunday, 13th February 2011

  You may find it helpful to join this site which has a large number of message boards for different FH topics. It's free, you just have to register. The link I have given you is for discussions and queries about ancestors who were travelling people (which also includes gypsies and circus folk)
  
  

  Link to this forum: Gypsies and Travellers

  Report message3

• Message 4

  , in reply to message 1.

  Posted by Silver Jenny (U12795676) on Monday, 14th February 2011

  shivfan, you will find useful references here.
  
  
  and this
  

  Link to this forum: Gypsies and Travellers

  Report message4

• Message 5

  , in reply to message 4.

  Posted by shivfan (U2435266) on Tuesday, 15th February 2011

  A fascinating story, stanilic, and thanks for the links, guys....
  
  I've being doing a bit of inquiring, and I've been discovering that the Roma in Britain don't like being classified in the same group as the Irish travellers. Interesting, isn't it? Surely, it's now time to differentiate between the two groups....

  Link to this forum: Gypsies and Travellers

  Report message5

Back to top