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Palestine
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Message 1.Ìý
Posted by shivfan (U2435266) on Monday, 7th February 2011
I watched the first episode of 'The Promise' on Channel 4 last night, and I found it rivetting....
Now, I don't know a lot about that period of history (British occupation of the mandate of Palestine in 1945), but I couldn't find any of the usual historical flaws committed by TV directors. Of course, more knowledgeable posters can correct me....
This was the first of a four-parter, and I can't wait to watch episode two. -
Message 2
Posted by Mike Alexander (U1706714) on Tuesday, 15th February 2011
I've also been watching this and am finding it excellent so far. I don't know a great deal about the period either, but it certainly seems that they have gone out of their way to try and show the conflict from all sides.
I think some background about the Balfour Declaration and also Britain's role in stirring up the Arab Revolt of 1916-18 would have benefited understanding of the events; however it's already a dual chronology narrative, and I guess you have to set a cut-off somewhere to keep the drama tight and cohesive.
All in all, though, brilliant stuff, and I'm looking forward to the last two episodes. -
Message 3
Posted by shivfan (U2435266) on Wednesday, 16th February 2011
I liked the second episode too....
This one looked at the semmingly-forgotten Ergun bombing of the King David Hotel, and the British soldiers who were killed by these actions from Jewish 'terrorists'. Flash-forward to present-day, and the progressive Israeli young man says that there's little difference from the way his grandfather, who was a member of Ergun, behaved, and the way the Palestinian 'terrorists' are behaving now.
Food for thought.... -
Message 4
Posted by shivfan (U2435266) on Sunday, 20th February 2011
I was reading a review of this programme in last week's Culture in the Sunday Times, and he accused the programme of being 'propaganda', and continued to rubbish it without providing one iota of evidence....
Now, in recent times, the Sudnay Times has had an anti-Muslim agenda, but they don't have to make it so obvious, do they? What I've watched of this programme so far I've enjoyed, and to me it seems the most accurate representation of Palestine in the post-war years that I've seen on the box. Most of the rubbish coming out of America tends to be pro-Israel rubbish, anyway....
This programme seems a lot more balanced. I can't wait for tonight's episode. -
Message 5
Posted by suvorovetz (U12273591) on Sunday, 20th February 2011
Now, in recent times, the Sudnay Times has had an anti-Muslim agenda, but they don't have to make it so obvious, do they?Ìý
Do you have to make it so obvious? -
Message 6
Posted by shivfan (U2435266) on Tuesday, 1st March 2011
Yes, suvo, because there are some people out there who still believe that you can get accurate, unbiased news from the Times, while that is not really the case any more, especially since it fell under the spell of Murdoch....
The Independent, naturally, saw it differently, describing it as a 'distinctly superior drama', 'intelligent', and 'even-handed', and that's the way I saw it too. I enjoyed the final episode last night, and I learnt quite a lot about the 1945-48 period in Palestine as a result of the programme.
It seems that quite a few British soldiers went to Palestine sympathetic to the Jews, but came away from the country with totally opposite feelings. Commendations to director Peter Kosminsky for a hard-hitting drama that questioned a lot of what happened at the time.... -
Message 7
Posted by Mike Alexander (U1706714) on Tuesday, 1st March 2011
Just caught up with the last episode on 4od (Sunday's viewing being interrupted by my toddler, who certainly has a talent for picking his moments!). What a superb piece of drama! I wish there was more serious drama of this quality being made, but I fear such things are few and far between. If this series doesn't win major awards there's something seriously wrong somewhere.
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Message 8
Posted by suvorovetz (U12273591) on Wednesday, 2nd March 2011
Yes, suvo, because there are some people out there who still believe that you can get accurate, unbiased news from the Times, while that is not really the case any more, especially since it fell under the spell of Murdoch....
Ìý
Yes, that is, some people live outside the echo chamber and aren't condition to accept its pitch as the balance criterion. -
Message 9
Posted by chefone (U14431437) on Thursday, 3rd March 2011
Hello folks.....
Hope you are all well and enjoying this new year....
I just want to put another perspective on this.....I done a post on the Jewish board on this and it was so interesting to see thier attiude towards this programme.....
Instead of showing any empathy towards some of the children on the programme they found it "rational" to find expletives condeming the story as anti Israel......
It is so sad that any human beings could ignore those poor little kids who had to walk the gauntlet through the "Jewish" quarter and have stones thrown at them and abused verbally to and from thier place of schooling...
I thought this programme was very brave in telling the story and i think that if anything it "erred" on the side of Israel......
We saw , in the last programme a gun turret on one of the background towers fitted with machine guns....
No mention of the Gun Turrets all around the outside wall ...Which are remote opperated and fire on the palastinian children who wander into "no-mans" land to etch out a living collecting rubble to sell ...Source... [Dimbleby Lectures...]
How sad that the Generals in Israel propergate this outrage and how cruel that there are sickos sitting in rooms by Televisions just waiting to fire these murderous rays of death....!
Chef -
Message 10
Posted by chefone (U14431437) on Thursday, 3rd March 2011
Selfishness leads to violence, and violence leads to more violence. Violence leads to revenge, which again leads to selfishness.
The wise realizes that the chain of hatred needs to be broken.......
chef -
Message 11
Posted by suvorovetz (U12273591) on Thursday, 3rd March 2011
No mention of the Gun Turrets all around the outside wall ...Which are remote opperated and fire on the palastinian children who wander into "no-mans" land to etch out a living collecting rubble to sell ...Source... [Dimbleby Lectures...] Ìý
Dimbleby lectures? I assume that'd be something that the resident Jew baiter here would approve as confirming to his scholarly values. Even though, even this snippet looks so out of whack that the established, 'sophisticated' so to speak, Jew hating propagandists chose not to tackle this head-on. Nobody wants it unravel the way Al-Dura fraud did:
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Message 12
Posted by chefone (U14431437) on Friday, 4th March 2011
The thing that i like about the Jewish folk is your determination to wall paper over the truth.....
Maybe because you are so de-sensitised to human reality that you just cant face the truth of what your great King Herod bought yous into....
To say that i am a "Jew Hater" is a rather weak attempt at diverting truth to nonsense.....
I feel the same way about Gentiles who also cause so many problems to the Human family.....
And Yes i said the dimbleby lecture 2011.......As follows.
"In this year's Richard Dimbleby Lecture, Michael Morpurgo explores the increasingly urgent issue of children's rights, and investigates the wrongs that young people have to endure."
PresenterJonathan DimblebyPresenterMichael MorpurgoProducerVictoria SimpsonExecutive ProducerPhil Dolling.Broadcasts
Tue 15 Feb 201122:35Â鶹ԼÅÄ One (except Northern Ireland, Scotland, Wales).Tue 15 Feb 201123:05Â鶹ԼÅÄ One (Northern Ireland, Wales only).Tue 15 Feb 201123:35Â鶹ԼÅÄ One (Scotland only).More details
A programme from
The Richard Dimbleby Lecture..Duration
50 minutes.More from Â鶹ԼÅÄ One
Genre:
Factual ..Format:Performances & Events ..Around the Â鶹ԼÅÄ
Jonathan Dimbleby
Michael Morpurgo
Richard Dimbleby Lecture
.. Search term:
bbc.co.uk navigationNewsSportWeatheriPlayer TVRadioMoreCÂ鶹ԼÅÄCBeebiesComedyFoodHealthHistoryLearningMusicScienceNatureLocalNorthern IrelandScotlandWalesFull A-Z of Â鶹ԼÅÄ sites..
MMMmmmm......
Kind of blows away your creditability..."Suvorovetz"
These lectures do exsist and if you check out the information i have given you you will find the information i have given ..."Regarding children being SHOT by faceless "Animals" is a truism....
But maybe you would like to tell the world differently for your own propergandist reasons....?
And co-incidentally...Because what i have said is true....And i have given my source and evidence on this matter .....Are you able to cry for these children...?
Or are you like the animal sitting by the gun turret just waiting to blow away a 5 yr old.....
No surovetz.......I not a jew hater ...But i am someone who is prepared to stand up and tell you that this is wrong and evil work and a work manifested straight from The darkest of intentions...
You have a nice day young man and god-willing you will maybe find peace...[though i doubt it....]
Chef....
.. -
Message 13
Posted by chefone (U14431437) on Friday, 4th March 2011
And surovitz....
If you want to "rubbish truth"......
Please find something more creditable than "you tube"...
Kind and thought ful regards...
Chef.....[resident human]... -
Message 14
Posted by suvorovetz (U12273591) on Friday, 4th March 2011
No surovetz.......I not a jew hater Ìý Of course, not.
Just like this guy here:
It's just I don't belong in a crowd willing to be subjected to continuous insult to my intelligence. By all objective and measurable standard there are three telling criteria to this theme here:
1. the most number of muslims are killed and displaced by muslims
2. the most number of arabs are killed and displaced by arabs
3. the most number of threads - on a history board, mind you - spew indignation about Israeli Jews; about the Jews having an "oppressive" state; or, like in the case of that other guy, openly and with complete impunity, expressing sincerest indignation about the fact that the Jews are even allowed to have a state at all.
What does it tell a person possessing rudimentary capacity to make logical conclusions? It tells this person that those originating these threads could not possibly care less about the plight of arabs and muslims they are shedding their crocodile tears for. They are more interested in good old Jew bashing.
To somebody who is actually paying attention, it's like watching drunks at the bar spilling out their dirty secrets, only much more disgusting. -
Message 15
Posted by chefone (U14431437) on Friday, 4th March 2011
MMMmmmm...
You are hard one to convince my friend......
But ....I shall persevere.....
If only for boredoms sake......
suvorovetz.......I would not dream of insulting your intelligence in any way what so ever...Infact it is my hope to empower such biological pre-dispositions,
So , I will comment as follows on your last post.
It is very easy to surf the web these days and find selective evidence on which to base a statement and to be honest with you , i sometimes do it myself....But...In doing so i try to respect the rule of law ...In so far as i try hard to find coroboration from other sources.....
It would be a good idea for you to first check out DNA evidence before you define nations into names....This will teach you the scientific evaluation on who were the original inhabitants of the land where.. the israeli folk now live....
Now....
When you do something harmful to someone......... then it is my belief that karma will catch you up........
People...When clear headed.... will turn against you and some will, as you rightfully state....Hate You......[regardless wether you Jew or Gentile]
But this is life....Is it not....?
It was not my intention to argue these points with you and if you read my post it seems to me that it is you who is coming out with all the hate stuff.......
My post was concerned with the jewish nations inability to cry for a 5 year old child ......
If u want to start a new thread on another subject matter then please feel free to do so as i would enjoy the oppertunity to derobe your part of our nation more than i have already......
This film was brilliant ...And if it frees just one jewish child from the tyrany of its jailor then i will be happy.....
Have a nice day surov...
Chef... -
Message 16
Posted by ritajoh (U10855204) on Friday, 4th March 2011
I very much enjoyed the promish tho to be honest i didnt always understand it, but it certainly changed my views on both the jews and the palestine people, there was faults on both sides.
You said CHEFONE about the jews inability to cry for a child, could it be because the jews have done so much crying in there lives that they have lost the will to cry anymore.
I very much sympathised with the soldier Len. but i couldnt get into Erin she didnt seem forchful enough for me, and the ending seemed to leave me in limbo a bit, but that is just my opinion. but it was an excellent programm -
Message 17
Posted by chefone (U14431437) on Sunday, 6th March 2011
Hello ritaj
I'm glad that you enjoyed the drama...And i agree that it was working on many different levels of thought which i found absolutely brilliant....
I agree that.., Arguably, all the players in this game could, in todays world be regarded as equally responsible for the troubles that we see played out everyday....
I have my own views on this...
Yes ....Maybe the "chosen " peoples have had lots of reasons to cry...But so have a lot of other nations.....
I think the wise ones get on with thier lot and learn that violence begets violence...
The Jewish experience is no excuse to hate an innocent child......
There have been many holocausts ritajoh...Some still going on today...[Not that the media allows people near them...!] Thier time of complaint should be over and thier hatred should not be directed against the defenseless and innocent children......
chef -
Message 18
Posted by suvorovetz (U12273591) on Sunday, 6th March 2011
MMMmmmm...
You are hard one to convince my friend......
But ....I shall persevere.....Ìý
...by proceeding to make my point for me - on oh so many levels?
If only for boredoms sake......
suvorovetz.......I would not dream of insulting your intelligence in any way what so ever...Infact it is my hope to empower such biological pre-dispositionsÌý
If I were in your shoes, I'd start worrying about own biological pre-dispositions rather. -
Message 19
Posted by chefone (U14431437) on Sunday, 6th March 2011
I'm alright mate......
No need to worrie about a thing......
But something for you to worrie about.........
"The young man who has not wept is a savage, and the old man who will not laugh is a fool." -Confucius
chef -
Message 20
Posted by chefone (U14431437) on Sunday, 6th March 2011
Psalm 23 my friend.......[ever read it]
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Message 21
Posted by shivfan (U2435266) on Wednesday, 9th March 2011
Oh, do grow up, suvo, and try to see history as a story that reflects both sides, and take off your blinkers....
In my recent working career, I have worked at both a Muslim charity and a Jewish charity, at different times, of course! But as a result of my experiences, I feel I have been a good, rounded perspective of both ways of life, and I think both cultures have plusses and minusses. I am neither a Muslim nor a Jew, but I do feel that if both cultures would took a real critical look at their respective religions, they would realise they have more in common than they think!
My main beef is that a lot of the movies and TV shows coming out of the US dealing with the region tend to be heavily slanted towards Israel, and heavily biased against the Muslim causes. In contrast, I feel that Peter Kosminsky's programme (he is a British Jew, by the way!) was an excellent attempt to present a balanced view. I also saw Steven Spielberg's 'Munich', and I think that's one of the best movies to come out of America that dealt with an issue that arose out of the conflict. Most other programmes I have seen I can only dismiss as poor attempts at propaganda....
There is one disturbing aspect to my work at a Jewish charity that I thought I need to highlight. Those of my colleagues who were educated at a state school tended to have a more balanced view of the conflict in the Middle East. However, those of my colleagues who graduated from a faith school were stridently pro-Israel and had brothers, etc who were enrolled in the Israeli army, despite their British heritage. Their education at a faith school made them more Israeli than British....
I don't need to go into the issues of Muslim faith schools, because that's been in the media a lot already. But I just thought I'd highlight similar concerns that exist with Jewish faith schools, which you don't read about in the papers or see on prorgrammes on the Â鶹ԼÅÄ. Sadly, they seem to be taught a version of history that seems biased and slanted, and it can't be right that they are benefitting from state funding.
To me, the only proper solution is to stop funding these faith schools with immediate effect. If they continue to teach a warped version of history, they should be subject to private funding only. I really object to my taxes being plowed into supporting these faith schools.... -
Message 22
Posted by suvorovetz (U12273591) on Wednesday, 9th March 2011
Oh, do grow up, suvo, and try to see history as a story that reflects both sides, and take off your blinkersÌý
You haven't addressed a single point I've made to explain my views. The points expressed in a direct and concise language, unlike the post I am responding to. If what you're trying to get to is rejecting my premise that those who feast on threads like this are nothing more than the Jew bashers, I will grant you the benefit of a doubt. You may simply lack ability to process elementary logic, not unlike hordes of other people, of course. Gustave Le Bon had written The Crowd for a reason. -
Message 23
Posted by Mike Alexander (U1706714) on Wednesday, 9th March 2011
...those who feast on threads like this are nothing more than Jew bashersÌý
Not sure exactly which posters that's aimed at, but if there's any suggestion that I'm antisemitic, I can definitely state that I'm not. Since I'm a quarter Jewish, genetically speaking, it would be rather an absurd position! -
Message 24
Posted by somewhatsilly (U14315357) on Wednesday, 9th March 2011
How I wish we could lose the expression 'antisemitic'. As well as being factually inappropriate, the Arabs etc also being semitic people, it is so often wielded as a cosh to terminate discussion, much as 'racist' can be, and the fear of being labelled inhibits rather than encourages the kind of rational and considered exchange that should be fostered. Has anyone ever used the word 'prosemitic'?
The analytical demolition of someone's position is so much more effective than an epithet which usually just serves to divert the discussion into 'No I'm not, Yes you are' exchanges.. -
Message 25
Posted by suvorovetz (U12273591) on Wednesday, 9th March 2011
Since I'm a quarter Jewish, genetically speaking, it would be rather an absurd position!Ìý
I brought up this - very popular here - fallacy of identity affirmation on similar threads. It is an utter non sequitur. Also, you may also have missed something in my previous posts. -
Message 26
Posted by islanddawn (U7379884) on Wednesday, 9th March 2011
Yes well Suv, who only ever lurks in threads like this (despite his words directed at others above) often confuses political with religious criticism and labels all and sundry who disagree with him as Jewbaiters. It is his favourite insult next to Marxist or Commie.
-
Message 27
Posted by suvorovetz (U12273591) on Wednesday, 9th March 2011
Yes well Suv, who only ever lurks in threads like this (despite his words directed at others above) often confuses political with religious criticism and labels all and sundry who disagree with him as Jewbaiters. It is his favourite insult next to Marxist or Commie. Ìý
I dare say that they're one and the same in many instances. I've already run a simple economic test for Marxists, which they failed by any measurable standards. Here's a bit of a Jew baiter/basher test:
With all the indignation here, one would think that a true Jew baiter will always step forward and state with a straight face something like this:
I don't like the Jews
the Jews should never be allowed to have a sovereign state
it's easier for me to blame all world's ills on the Jews
the Jews are great to deflect problems at.
Did this ever happen? Not that I noticed.
Are there any Jew baiters/bashers out there?
If there are any, is there a chance that some of them pop up on these boards?
If some of them - by any chance - pop up on these boards, what are the chances that they either initiate or actively participate in Jew baiting threads? -
Message 28
Posted by islanddawn (U7379884) on Wednesday, 9th March 2011
And you'll seek 'em out and unmask 'em wherever they may be?
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Message 29
Posted by suvorovetz (U12273591) on Wednesday, 9th March 2011
And you'll seek 'em out and unmask 'em wherever they may be?Ìý
If you really want to know - and I've already said so - these kind of threads disgust me. From time to time, I'm just compelled to challenge in the same way I'm compelled to wash dishes at home, or worse. (I hope the fact that I don't have a butler at home does not disqualify me from posting here). -
Message 30
Posted by chefone (U14431437) on Wednesday, 9th March 2011
suro....
Are these jew bashers....Or Jews that get bashed up by Jews....?
JEWISH VOICE FOR PEACE
is the only national Jewish group that provides a voice for Jews and allies who believe that peace in the Middle East will be achieved through justice and full equality for both Palestinians and Israelis. With offices in California and New York, 100,000 online supporters, chapters across the country, and an advisory board featuring some of the world’s best known Jewish thinkers and artists, JVP supports nonviolent efforts here and in Israel-Palestine to end Israel’s occupation, expand human and civil rights, and implement a US policy based on international law and democracy.
JVP:
â– Conducts global campaigns to defend and release Israeli and Palestinian human rights activists
â– Works in coalition with others including Arab, Muslim, Palestinian and Christian groups to fight bigotry and end the occupation
â– Fights McCarthyite censorship of debate and misuses of the charge of anti-Semitism, especially in the Jewish community
â– Facilitates Congressional outreach regarding policy in the region
â– Supports the growth of the Boycott, Divestment and Sanctions movement through divestment from companies that profit from the occupation
â– Supports alternative Jewish rituals and celebrations
AND WHAT GIVES YOU THE RIGHT TO SPEAK ON BEHALF OF THE JEWISH NATION.....SURO....?
Or are these proper Jews ....
Not to your liking... -
Message 31
Posted by chefone (U14431437) on Wednesday, 9th March 2011
AND WHY SHOULD THIS GO UN-CHALLENGED...
• Abir Aramin was 10 years old and lived in the town of Anata in the Occupied West Bank. In January 2007 she was killed by a rubber bullet to the head fired by an Israeli Border Policeman (the Border Police are really ordinary soldiers who serve in this capacity) as she was going home from school. The Army has consistently denied that she was killed by a soldier despite pathology reports and concocted a cock and bull story that she was hit by a rock during a riot. In fact there was no riot at the time.
i HAVE SOURCES suro....
So no diversions....This is what is happening...Everyday...52 weeks a year....And i'm just fed up with people like you putting your own slant on it ......
Jew Bashers.....?
No mate ...Rather a jew being beaten up by the herodites of the nation.... -
Message 32
Posted by suvorovetz (U12273591) on Wednesday, 9th March 2011
AND WHAT GIVES YOU THE RIGHT TO SPEAK ON BEHALF OF THE JEWISH NATION.....SURO....?
Or are these proper Jews ....
Not to your liking...Ìý
Case in point - yet again, guaranteed with every post. Identity affirmation fallacy. It's like the infamous teleprompter. One has to stick to the script, because there're no marbles there in a pile of sand. No matter how many times I repeat the same thing: I've never claimed to be speaking for the Jews; I'm not even a Jew. -
Message 33
Posted by chefone (U14431437) on Wednesday, 9th March 2011
And notice my 3rd bullet on post 30........
Fights Mcarthyite censorship of debate
And MIS-USES OF THE CHARGE OF ANTI-SEMITISM, ESPECIALLY WITHIN THE JEWISH COMMUNITY....... -
Message 34
Posted by chefone (U14431437) on Wednesday, 9th March 2011
Ho right ....Thats ok...
The points you made dont matter then.....?
Because your not even a Jew.......[dont get that one mate....?]
But what i do get is your psychological threat in message 18.......
Chef.... -
Message 35
Posted by chefone (U14431437) on Wednesday, 9th March 2011
And if you read my posts carefully you will see i've never accused you of being one of those "Hideous Creatures"
So your mis-use of the freudian dictionary tells me that you read that straight from a textbook..... -
Message 36
Posted by suvorovetz (U12273591) on Wednesday, 9th March 2011
And if you read my posts carefully you will see i've never accused you of being one of those "Hideous Creatures"
So your mis-use of the freudian dictionary tells me that you read that straight from a textbookÌý
Freud was not a linguist. Joe McCarthy did not censor anybody. One can only tell that another one reads straight from THE textbook, not from A textbook. And that’s just by carefully reading a couple of lines from your posts. -
Message 37
Posted by chefone (U14431437) on Thursday, 10th March 2011
Get out of my face suckervitz
Go bye a P enlarger from the chemist.....
chef -
Message 38
Posted by suvorovetz (U12273591) on Thursday, 10th March 2011
This post seems to fit a profile of a dove lover quite well, for some reason.
-
Message 39
Posted by chefone (U14431437) on Monday, 14th March 2011
surovitz...
You is a fool my friend.....
You here to wind people up.....And if you got any stupid comments to make ....Do it in private.....
Your mode of thought and action is so predictable and that post i sent exemplyfies my thoughts on why you are like you are....
Peace to you....
And may your mind turn inside out untill you see the light....
chef -
Message 40
Posted by Elkstone (U3836042) on Wednesday, 16th March 2011
If the ottomans still ruled the middle east after WW1, would they have allowed the State of Israel to come into being? The British who were the rulers of the protectorate, were in favour. But the Ottomans despite rights and wrongs of their rule over Arabs, were also Muslim, and not 'disinterested' like the British.
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