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Mary Eleanor, Countess of Strathmore

• Message 1.Β 

  Posted by SusanDoris (U2850104) on Sunday, 16th January 2011

  This morning I finished listening to my latest talking book, 'Wedlock' by Wendy Moore. Not only was it a gripping story and one which I had not heard before, but it was also very well read by one of the NLB's readers - I think they are volunteers. I know quite a bit about the history of that period, and had heard about the origin of the phrase 'stony broke', but not about the life of Mary Eleanor. Absolutely fascinating. I really recommend the book too. I recall that it was discussed at length on Radio4 a while ago. I have been looking up in wikipedia information about the 11th, 12th and 13th Earls.
  
  It is staggering to learn that so many of the law reforms which originated from her court hearings were not established until 100 or more years later and it was only in the early 1990s that a husband could be prosecuted for marital rape.
  
  I put the name into the 'search' line, but no results came up, although I should imagine the subject has been discussed on this board over the years?
  
  I shall be interested to hear others' views on this.
  
  Susan

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• Message 2

  , in reply to message 1.

  Posted by an ex-nordmann - it has ceased to exist (U3472955) on Sunday, 16th January 2011

  Stoney was a right piece of work, wasn't he? While Mary Eleanor Bowes was undoubtedly extremely courageous in her determination to obtain a divorce from the creep and underwent unimaginable hardship throughout the whole ordeal, it must also be acknowledged that she had two things in her favour that other women in the same plight probably hadn't.
  
  Her great wealth, protected intelligently by her late father in the form of a trust, no doubt opened doors in the legal system which were resolutely closed to others with even more deserving cases than hers. In addition she had no real problem with convincing others of Stoney's vile character. It was apparently well known by everyone in those social circles at the time, and while this did not necessarily deter some misogynism directed against her in court, there were no opponents who would dare attempt portray Stoney as an upright and decent specimen of husband.
  
  Having said that, her victory was by no means assured, so committed was the male establishment to preventing women from controlling their own finances - an appalling prospect for the many men who depended so completely on the principle of "marrying" wealth on the understanding that it was then theirs to dispose of at will. The Bowes case's ability to alarm these men is probably not possible to fully appreciate these days.
  
  Incidentally, Stoney was the model afterwards for William Makepeace Thackeray's anti-hero Barry Lyndon. If you've read the book you'll agree, I'm sure, that it represents evidence that the establishment-approved reputation of "loveable rogue" behind which sadistic psychopaths like Stoney hid, even 50 years after the Bowes case, was still considered one worthwhile to promote. Barry Lyndon was considered a worthy subject for sensational biographical fiction and the character was apparently a huge hit with the book's female readership. Mary Eleanor Bowes, an actual hero whose stand was one which could only benefit women in her society, wasn't.

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• Message 3

  , in reply to message 2.

  Posted by SusanDoris (U2850104) on Sunday, 16th January 2011

  Thank you for your interesting post. I did not ever read 'Barry Linden' and I think it is unlikely I will do so now, having read Mary Eleanor's story.
  
  I was looking in wikipedia for a note of how many illegitimate children Stoney fathered. I wonder if this is known and whether information is available as to their lives. I suppose this would be the case only if Stoney actually provided any maintenance to provide even basic needs which sseems unlikely. There might be information, though, about the children whose mother stayed with him until he died?
  
  I wonder sometimes how the tradespeople who constantly supplied goods to people like Stoney, without receiving payment most of the time, managed to keep going. I suppose they had enough honest and reliable customers who did pay.
  
  Susan

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• Message 4

  , in reply to message 1.

  Posted by Temperance (U14455940) on Wednesday, 19th January 2011

  
  Hi SusanDoris,
  
  it is staggering to learn that so many of the law reforms which originated from her court hearings were not established until 100 or more years later and it was only in the early 1990s that a husband could be prosecuted for marital rape. Β 
  
  Yes, and Emily Bronte makes a shocking reference to this in "Wuthering Heights". Heathcliff boasts quite openly to Nelly Dean that he is enjoying subjecting his wife, Isabella, nee Linton, to what would now be termed marital rape, but that he stops short of actually breaking the law - a reference to forced sodomy which, even within marriage, was a crime punishable by hanging until 1861:
  
  "'Now, was it not the depth of absurdity - of genuine idiocy, for that pitiful, slavish, mean-minded brach (bitch) to dream that I could love her? Tell your master, Nelly, that I never, in all my life, met with such an abject thing as she is - she even disgraces the name of Linton; and I've sometimes relented, from pure lack of invention, in my experiments on what she could endure and still creep chamefully cringing back! But tell him, also, to set his fraternal and magisterial heart at ease, that I keep strictly within the limits of the law ...'"
  
  I remember that as students we sat open-mouthed in disbelief when the implications of this extract were explained to us. Emily Bronte, like her sisters, was most definitely not some prim, sheltered little Victorian miss, and it has always amused me that "Wuthering Heights" is usually regarded as one of the world's great love stories. It's actually full of graphic details of violent, sadistic abuse of women and children. All three Bronte sisters were well aware of the brutal realities of life for Victorian women - whatever their class. No wonder there were howls of shocked outrage when their "coarse" books were published.
  
  I first read about Andrew Robinson Stoney in a biography of the late Queen Mother. William Shawcross quotes a chronicler of the Bowes Lyon family who says of Stoney that "This man was surely the lowest cad in history...He was the type of seedy, "gentlemanly" bounder, calling himself "Captain", which has flourished in every era of society...(He) was cunning, ruthless, sadistic with ratlike cleverness and a specious Irish charm. He was a fortune hunter of the worst type."
  
  Just like Heathcliff in fact...
  
  
  

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• Message 5

  , in reply to message 4.

  Posted by SusanDoris (U2850104) on Wednesday, 19th January 2011

  tEMPERANCE
  
  Thank you for your interesting post. I never actually read 'Wuthering Heights', although I did read an abridged version when I was young. ... like, you know, about 55-60 years ago!!
  
  Actually, I've been thinking about the 'Barry Linden' book and now that you mention 'Wuthering Heights', I think I'll add these two to my audio book requests.
  
  I have now started 'A Sense of The World....' by Jason Roberts about James Holman who in the early 1800s became a world traveller, even though he went blind at the age of about 25.
  
  These two books are certainly providing a great deal more information about that period.
  
  Susan
  
  

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• Message 6

  , in reply to message 5.

  Posted by somewhatsilly (U14315357) on Wednesday, 19th January 2011

  Temperance, you've relieved me of the some of the embarrassment I've felt for never managing to finish W H, I found it just too painful and affecting to continue, quite apart from making me furiously angry. I've never before come across anyone else who felt as strongly about it.
  
  ferval

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• Message 7

  , in reply to message 5.

  Posted by Temperance (U14455940) on Saturday, 22nd January 2011

  
  Just out of curiosity (I've never read the book) I ordered the Stanley Kubrick film of Barry Lyndon - Β£3.99 from Amazon. The best Β£3.99 I've spent in ages - an absolutely *exquisite* piece of filmmaking.

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