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Laid-back?

Nick Bryant | 05:26 UK time, Monday, 21 January 2008

Pepper spray at the Australian Open in Melbourne - the whiff of capsicum at a tournament touted as the world's friendliest grand slam event.

In the same week that Victoria's "thin blue line" struggled to contain an adolescent free-for-all organised by You Tube's "man of the moment", party animal Corey Delaney - think American Pie meets Neighbours meets Nightmare on Elm Street - they decided to of the Greek player Konstantinos Economidis. A Greek "cheer squad" were allegedly chanting racial abuse at Chile's Fernando Gonzalez.

At a time when the over-aggressive, are the focus of national discussion, is it not worth a word on what some might consider the over-aggressive, "in-your-face" tactics of Australia's police?

The policing of the APEC summit last September could be cited in the case for the prosecution. The arrival in Sydney of 21 Asia-Pacific leaders, including the US President George W Bush, obviously demanded some pretty robust security. But at times, the policing was almost as ugly as that lattice wire fence, the which disfigured the central business district.

Certainly, the policing of the main protest march that week seemed disproportionate. After the banner-waving and slogan-shouting protest had pretty much passed off in a boisterous but overwhelming orderly way, the New South Wales police decided to deploy its riot squad and brand new US-built water-cannon. Having bought their new toy for $A600,000 ($525,000, 拢270,000), they seemed determined to use it. Fortunately, the tap remained in the off position, but its appearance seemed gratuitous.

By then, of course, a few pranksters from The Chaser's War on Everything had with a few black hire cars, some wrap-around shades, some "curly-wurly" ear-pieces, a coloured photocopier and a comedian dressed as Osama Bin Laden.

In her new Quarterly Essay, the academic Judith Brett argues that this was the moment that John Howard's "days as a Strong Leader were over", because the Chaser boys had turned the government's "national security credentials into a national joke". Still, it is worth remembering that the NSW police receive their orders from a Labor-controlled state government.

Months earlier, in what almost seemed like a dress rehearsal for the main event, the visit of Vice-President Dick Cheney provided more evidence of over-zealous policing. Here, officers felt it necessary to break-up a small demonstration outside Cheney's hotel, even though it displayed all the menace of an ice cream van.

As the horses and boiler-suit clad police officers moved in, an old lady was knocked down in the melee. Afterwards, the police said they had wanted to arrest two demonstrators dressed in blue overalls who were impersonating a police officer. Police officers have never considered imitation a form of flattery.

Ahead of the Australian Open, the Victoria police announced a "zero tolerance" policy, the security slogan of the age. They were mindful of the unexpected violence at last year's tournament, when Serbian and Croatian fans brawled at Melbourne Park, using their national flags as weapons.

Once again, as the pepper spray incident showed, predictions of trouble seem almost to become a self-fulfilling prophecy. Talking up the possibility of aggro almost seems to invite it.

Of course, the cricketing authorities showed the same officious streak during last summer's Ashes series, when it banned the "Barmy Army's" trumpeter from the stands. The New South Wales Premier Morris Iemma also displayed a needlessly authoritarian side by writing to the then British Prime Minister, Tony Blair, to ask for help in identify known trouble-makers amongst England's travelling fans.

Why this officiousness?

At the Ashes, I well remember a British cricket writer haughtily holding court, and offering what I thought at the time was the patronising theory that all could be explained by the country's penal past: that the colonies and territories which eventually came together in Federation had strongly-enforced rules and regulations from the very outset. Early government was a top-down affair rather than something that developed in a more organic, bottom-up, democratic and therefore user-friendly manner. Comments please?

Perhaps it has something to do with "over-government": the simple fact that it takes three tiers of government - federal, state and local - to administer 21 million people. In other words, a triple whammy of overlapping officialdom, which again has it roots in early, pre-Federation governance.

Certainly, it all contradicts the global image of Australia as the world's great laid-back nation. Many are the times - usually when confronted with my latest parking or dog-walking fine - when I've thought quite the opposite is true.

颁辞尘尘别苍迟蝉听听 Post your comment

  • 1.
  • At 06:56 AM on 21 Jan 2008,
  • Private Citizen wrote:

In the Australia, the thin blue line could be more accurately described as occasional blue spots. It is a big country, few people spread over great distances. some police stations are eight hours from the CBD by plane. So the police tend to be on their own and in my experience they often try to make themselves look big because it could be few hours before backup arrives. This heavy handed-ness is often felt by the public regardless of the severity of the crime.
APEC was a PR disaster - they told sydney siders we should be honoured to host the event, then shut down the city and told us to shut up and leave before it happens. They even told us not to turn up for the APEC fireworks display.
Australian Open - two officers with capsicum spray, spraying in windy arena with plenty of innocent bystanders. Lucky they did not choose to use their guns. Victorian police stood by the action as the alternative was to admit the officers did not have adequate support at an international event.

  • 2.
  • At 07:40 AM on 21 Jan 2008,
  • Tim wrote:

Of course we're not as laid back as people think - you've lived here for quite a while Nick, you've only just reached that conclusion?

Anyway, you asked for comments about this:

"At the Ashes, I well remember a British cricket writer haughtily holding court, and offering what I thought at the time was the patronising theory that all could be explained by the country鈥檚 penal past: that the colonies and territories which eventually came together in Federation had strongly-enforced rules and regulations from the very outset. Early government was a top-down affair rather than something that developed in a more organic, bottom-up, democratic and therefore user-friendly manner. Comments please?"

First; Australia as a country has no penal past, the colonies which no longer exist do (and no, Nick 鈥 that does not include the territories and only some states). There was no overlapping bureaucracy prior to federation, because there were only two tiers of government....exactly as in the United Kingdom. They copied your system at that time and it seemed to work well.

The reason there is a third level of government and not just two (local and national) is because the states were formidable sources of power at the time of federation, and those in control had absolutely no plans to surrender that power to a burgeoning central government.

So you see, the reason why we have so much government is because of politics, and has nothing to do with any historical legacy left by the British practice of transportation.

If you're somehow suggesting Nick, that Australians are less attuned to democracy - dare I point out that Australia gave women the vote well before it was granted almost everywhere else? And surely the fact that we have three tiers of democratic government UNDERSCORES our commitment to democracy rather than authoritarianism. The fact that law and order issues are so important to governments is a result of the will of the PEOPLE (an important issue in elections around the world). It鈥檚 as simple as that.

Explaining it all away as a legacy of transportation is patronising and offensive. Must I continue to point out that we're a far broader, more diverse, and older society than the overly-sunburned well-lubricated lackeys of the empire at the cricket would ever give us credit for?

I mean really - our crime rates are significantly lower than the United States - and they have little to no history of transportation. This person鈥檚 patronising and smarmy theory therefore falls flat.

  • 3.
  • At 11:34 AM on 21 Jan 2008,
  • Anonymous wrote:

Hi Nick, You've named a few isolated incidents where police had to respond to unique situations that they would not encounter regularly and in these circumstances they've unfortunatley erred on the heavyhanded side of caution. I think in the overwhelming majority of cases they are actually restrained (sometimes in the face of extreme provocation and aggression - see the S11 protests in 2000.) and that is why when they do go over the top, it's remarkable.
I must also say that I take any modern day conclusions from our convict colony past with a very large grain of salt.

  • 4.
  • At 11:37 AM on 21 Jan 2008,
  • Sean in Brussels wrote:

Hi Nick, You've named a few isolated incidents where police had to respond to unique situations that they would not encounter regularly and in these circumstances they've unfortunatley erred on the heavyhanded side of caution. I think in the overwhelming majority of cases they are actually restrained (sometimes in the face of extreme provocation and aggression - see the S11 protests in 2000.) and that is why when they do go over the top, it's remarkable.
I must also say that I take any modern day conclusions from our convict colony past with a very large grain of salt.

  • 5.
  • At 12:00 PM on 21 Jan 2008,
  • Roland wrote:

Nick, you've got it all wrong man, it's not 3 levels of government at all! It's 2 levels of mismanagement and an underside of corruption and nepotism.

But you are right, this isn't the "Nanny State" of the UK, though we have enough of that with the visiting Yanks suing us for drowning and falling off hills; this is the state of regulations where you need a safety meeting to get out of bed (filled out in triplicate) and you have to fill in a dozen forms to go to the toilet and wait in line to get a piece of toilet paper called a license.

Our police brutality and over-zealousness is however rather verboard and probably in my opinion related mostly to large simulacrum for the male genitalia-envy of American cops who get more to do; this is such a laid back place that bored cops have to find something to smack in the head.

  • 6.
  • At 01:54 PM on 21 Jan 2008,
  • Maxim wrote:

I've lived in Australia most of my life, I'm 18 now. Personally I've never come across what you could term in-your-face policing, however...

A friend of mine, during OPEC, sorry APEC, was walking from the Art Gallery of New South Wales a couple of days into the event, he was perhaps halfway through Domain Park when in a matter of moments "out of nowhere" he was surrounded by no less than 5 policemen. Not only did they take down his name and address, but they detailed each and every content of his bag, whilst using the opportunity to develop their photographic skills by the way of several photos that rang "mugshot". The saga continued when he was interrogated by one officer over the origin of an external hard drive that was in his bag, and as a result of not being able to remember the brand or where he bought it, it was confiscated.

It's a funny story in a way, but I realised at that time that as amazing as it seemed being Australia in 2007, it wasn't impossible for there to become a police state in the most relaxed country in the world.

  • 7.
  • At 02:38 PM on 21 Jan 2008,
  • Nick wrote:

It's not just the police. When I arrived in Australia a couple of years ago, I was confronted with a phenomenally aggressive sequence of posters displaying Alsatian dogs, beefy men in uniform, and patrol boats manoeuvring at speed.

Recruitment for the army? No, Australian Customs: 'defending our Borders'.

Again, totally at odds with the relaxed stereotyping of Australian culture

  • 8.
  • At 02:39 PM on 21 Jan 2008,
  • Nick wrote:

It's not just the police. When I arrived in Australia a couple of years ago, I was confronted with a phenomenally aggressive sequence of posters displaying Alsatian dogs, beefy men in uniform, and patrol boats manoeuvring at speed.

Recruitment for the army? No, Australian Customs: 'defending our Borders'.

Again, totally at odds with the relaxed stereotyping of Australian culture

  • 9.
  • At 03:54 PM on 21 Jan 2008,
  • John wrote:

While I agree that there is definitely 鈥榦ver-policing鈥 prevalent in Australia, I don鈥檛 personally think it is such a problem as I think a bit of over-policing is much better than the alternative. I鈥檓 sure people will disagree with me but I can only speak from my own experiences.

I have been living in the UK for four years now and while I have thoroughly enjoyed my time here, I鈥檓 still amazed to see the lack of respect towards police every time I have a night out in a major town centre or attend a sporting event. There鈥檚 also a lack of respect from youths which simply wasn鈥檛 tolerated where I grew up in Victoria. Growing up I had friends spending the night at the police station for minor indiscretions that I see go unpunished almost every night I go out in the UK. The police in Victoria just wouldn鈥檛 tolerate a lot of the anti-social behaviour I see most weekends here and I don鈥檛 think that鈥檚 such a bad thing.

The police also over police sporting events but again, on the other side of the coin, the police are generally straight onto any trouble at sporting events so while they might overact to two or three people getting carried away, it prevents things from escalating which I鈥檝e seen happen on numerous times at football and cricket matches in London, Manchester and Newcastle. For example only last month I was at a football game in Newcastle when a fight broke out after the game which went on for 10 minutes or so without a single policemen in sight and once the fight was over, all involved got away with it completely. And this is not a one-off 鈥 I鈥檝e seen similar things quite a few times and I don鈥檛 believe people could have got away with that in Melbourne.

I鈥檓 not saying that trouble never occurs on a night out or at a sporting event in Australia - it certainly does - but its gernerally punished. But personally I prefer a bit of 鈥榦ver-policing鈥 than to let people openly disrespect police and get away with anti-social behaviour to the level I have noticed here. The police have a tough enough job as it is without having to put up with what they sometimes do.

  • 10.
  • At 03:54 PM on 21 Jan 2008,
  • John wrote:

While I agree that there is definitely 鈥榦ver-policing鈥 prevalent in Australia, I don鈥檛 personally think it is such a problem as I think a bit of over-policing is much better than the alternative. I鈥檓 sure people will disagree with me but I can only speak from my own experiences.

I have been living in the UK for four years now and while I have thoroughly enjoyed my time here, I鈥檓 still amazed to see the lack of respect towards police every time I have a night out in a major town centre or attend a sporting event. There鈥檚 also a lack of respect from youths which simply wasn鈥檛 tolerated where I grew up in Victoria. Growing up I had friends spending the night at the police station for minor indiscretions that I see go unpunished almost every night I go out in the UK. The police in Victoria just wouldn鈥檛 tolerate a lot of the anti-social behaviour I see most weekends here and I don鈥檛 think that鈥檚 such a bad thing.

The police also over police sporting events but again, on the other side of the coin, the police are generally straight onto any trouble at sporting events so while they might overact to two or three people getting carried away, it prevents things from escalating which I鈥檝e seen happen on numerous times at football and cricket matches in London, Manchester and Newcastle. For example only last month I was at a football game in Newcastle when a fight broke out after the game which went on for 10 minutes or so without a single policemen in sight and once the fight was over, all involved got away with it completely. And this is not a one-off 鈥 I鈥檝e seen similar things quite a few times and I don鈥檛 believe people could have got away with that in Melbourne.

I鈥檓 not saying that trouble never occurs on a night out or at a sporting event in Australia - it certainly does - but its gernerally punished. But personally I prefer a bit of 鈥榦ver-policing鈥 than to let people openly disrespect police and get away with anti-social behaviour to the level I have noticed here. The police have a tough enough job as it is without having to put up with what they sometimes do.

  • 11.
  • At 03:57 PM on 21 Jan 2008,
  • John wrote:

While I agree that there is definitely 鈥榦ver-policing鈥 prevalent in Australia, I don鈥檛 personally think it is such a problem as I think a bit of over-policing is much better than the alternative. I鈥檓 sure people will disagree with me but I can only speak from my own experiences.

I have been living in the UK for four years now and while I have thoroughly enjoyed my time here, I鈥檓 still amazed to see the lack of respect towards police every time I have a night out in a major town centre or attend a sporting event. There鈥檚 also a lack of respect from youths which simply wasn鈥檛 tolerated where I grew up in Victoria. Growing up I had friends spending the night at the police station for minor indiscretions that I see go unpunished almost every night I go out in the UK. The police in Victoria just wouldn鈥檛 tolerate a lot of the anti-social behaviour I see most weekends here and I don鈥檛 think that鈥檚 such a bad thing.

The police also over police sporting events but again, on the other side of the coin, the police are generally straight onto any trouble at sporting events so while they might overact to two or three people getting carried away, it prevents things from escalating which I鈥檝e seen happen on numerous times at football and cricket matches in London, Manchester and Newcastle. For example only last month I was at a football game in Newcastle when a fight broke out after the game which went on for 10 minutes or so without a single policemen in sight and once the fight was over, all involved got away with it completely. And this is not a one-off 鈥 I鈥檝e seen similar things quite a few times and I don鈥檛 believe people could have got away with that in Melbourne.

I鈥檓 not saying that trouble never occurs on a night out or at a sporting event in Australia - it certainly does. But personally I prefer a bit of 鈥榦ver-policing鈥 than to let people openly disrespect police and get away with anti-social behaviour to the level I have noticed here. The police have a tough enough job as it is without having to put up with what they sometimes do.

  • 12.
  • At 07:57 PM on 21 Jan 2008,
  • Richard Green wrote:

The colonial past theory does have certain merits. I do think it explains Australians' tendency to disrespect authority figures whilst submitting to authority (contrasted with the anti-authoritarianism, but love of authority figures found in the United States).

I think a more direct reason however is almost boredom. Given the chance to do something something other than round up drunks, they're all to eager to prove that they have a point.

Which is only exacerbated with ASIO and the AFP who don't even get to deal with the drunks.

  • 13.
  • At 08:00 PM on 21 Jan 2008,
  • Richard Green wrote:

The colonial past theory does have certain merits. I do think it explains Australians' tendency to disrespect authority figures whilst submitting to authority (contrasted with the anti-authoritarianism, but love of authority figures found in the United States).

I think a more direct reason however is almost boredom. Given the chance to do something something other than round up drunks, they're all to eager to prove that they have a point.

Which is only exacerbated with ASIO and the AFP who don't even get to deal with the drunks.

  • 14.
  • At 08:05 PM on 21 Jan 2008,
  • James Heywood wrote:

I would never consider Australia to be a laid-back country. Rather it's a false image that we Australians continue to generate about ourselves and use to promote ourselves abroad.

The average Australian is quite possibly one of the most law-abiding citizens in the world, a person who believes that the rule of a 'fair-go' for all means that no-one is allowed to jump the queue, demand special treatment or rise above a certain social status.

The great Australian larrikan with outright contempt for authority couldn't be a less suitable stereotype for those living in the urban centres of country in 2008.

The fact the the bbc among other news sites continues to promote the country as some endless Sunday barbeque doesn't really show the country as it is: just another freaked-out post-9/11 security-rabid nation displaying increasing intolerance towards any kind of perceived anti-social behaviour.

We Australians could only be described as laid-back when viewing our apathetic, complacent approach towards the growing infringements on civil rights.

  • 15.
  • At 12:04 AM on 22 Jan 2008,
  • Martin Pooley wrote:

You are spot-on, Nick. The laid-back, Crocodile Dundee, image of Australia is belied by the plethora of rules and regulations that the Australian public is subjected to, especially in Labour-controlled NSW. I wasn't in Sydney for APEC as I was still living in deepest rural France where I could walk our dogs just about anywhere. Britain under Blair was labelled the "Nanny State" but I suggest that Sydney matches it. Look at the rules and regulations that one finds on signs at just about any open space in the city. Ian Botham found out in the Eighties how conservative Australia is, but, Nick, if you want a good space for dog-walking, I suggest Sydney Park which is a completely "off-leash" area; for the dogs that is!

  • 16.
  • At 04:47 AM on 22 Jan 2008,
  • Ganesh Sivasubramaniam wrote:

I am of the opinion that the Police in Australia are laid back and good for nothing. Recently, a friend living with a few other mates had been to a party and when they were back the house was broken into and four laptops and their accessories were stolen (nothing else). The incident happened betweem 8.00PM and 12.00 PM on a Saturday. The police were informed immediately. The police came on the following tuesday and asked the guys if they had insurance. You generally would not expect students to have home insurance. The police said hard luck and gave a list of second shops and asked my friends to visit these shops and check if their laptops were there and to give them a call if at all they find theirs there. The police the filled in some paperwork and left. The window was clearly broken and no attempt was made to take finger prints at all. Is this how the police work?

  • 17.
  • At 04:58 AM on 22 Jan 2008,
  • Kirsty wrote:

WA is a police state without a doubt. You can be fined by councils for changing out of your bathers at the beach as well as bathing topless. You can't drink and watch a band at a concert, you aren't trusted enough, you are forced to skull your drink at the bar so they let you back out into the non-drinking/music area. Police pull you over if your car looks old and search it for faults. 2 cop cars, a paddywagon and 6 cops come to your house for 1 plant of dope, asking if you've got any needles.
Point being, you feel like you are doing something wrong all the time, even in your own home.

  • 18.
  • At 10:26 AM on 22 Jan 2008,
  • Phil wrote:

I think you've hit the nail on the head with the 'Zero Tolerance' remark, Nick. 'The Thin Blue Line'is supposed to represent the struggle against crime but it has come to represent the Constabulary's depth of tolerance and that has all but evaporated.

The Capsicum Spray at the Tennis was true overkill but no other Police agency can do overkill like the Victorian Police (Feel free to read about Hoddle Street). Why didn't they just Tazer 'em and be done with it? I s'pose the convulsing could be construed as the beginnings of a Mexican Wave though, which would be deemed as fun...! That would be a no-no! Things might turn ugly if they started the dreaded wave.

Over the state border, The NSW Police were initially called the NSW Police Force but they couldn't understand why nobody liked them. They wanted to foster community mindedness, fairness and blah, blah, whatever else so the name was changed to the NSW Police Service. Nothing else was changed and guess what? People still didn't like them.

Perhaps if they actually embodied some of those characteristics they had aspired they might have received some respect.

The name is now changed back to the original. What does that tell you?

  • 19.
  • At 11:30 AM on 22 Jan 2008,
  • Tony Melrose wrote:

At the outset you mention the suburban party where police 鈥渟truggled to contain鈥 party鈥. Reportedly $20k damage to police property and no one is arrested鈥 show me the over policing.

Can鈥檛 see the nexus between the 鈥渋n your face tactics鈥 of the Australian Cricket team and 鈥淎ustralia鈥檚 Police鈥 鈥 but you appear to have attempted to draw one.

APEC was a balls up 鈥 in hind sight. Perhaps an Australian display of inexperience 鈥 not such a bad thing really. British coppers are so very proficient at such events 鈥 not such a good thing really.

At the recent tennis match I saw some heavily edited vision of police spraying some people with capsicum spray. I also heard a tennis commentator telling the audience that the police really had their 鈥渉ands full鈥 trying to control that section of the crowd. I wasn鈥檛 there so I don鈥檛 really know what the police were up against. You obviously do.

Your borrowed but predictable reference to a convict heritage leads into a commentary of our repressive regime versus the egalitarian utopia that is England. Lets talk monarchy, Ireland, Scotland, James Cook, slavery, Bradford and finally the elegant, English class system.

If you want a gratuitously absurd generalisation how about this one 鈥 can鈥檛 remember when a bunch of Australian police in jeans chased an electrician onto a train and shot him to death.

I look forward to seeing the half dozen friendly Bobbies patrolling the London Olympic stadium in the near future then the mother country can show us how it should be done.

It is a well known fact that England is not all lush green hills and quaint pubs but if you and the rest of English populace wish to mindlessly swallow the marketing campaigns showing shrimps on the BBQ and attractive girls asking 鈥渨here the bloody hell are you?鈥 that鈥檚 fine. Just remember to pay your parking fines lest the death squads come calling in the night.


  • 20.
  • At 03:53 PM on 22 Jan 2008,
  • Mike, Sydney wrote:

I don't think you could call the Australian Police " in your face" because in my experience you never see them where they should be. I've lived here two years and i've never come across such a laid back and indifferent Police force.They love to play tough at the big events but when it come to tackling real crime they fail miserably. For example, there is a dossier being prepared at the moment by an organisation claiming that the Sydney police failed to act on up to 60 incidents of alleged homophobic attacks in just one street in Sydney. Im sorry, but this type of behaviour form a Police force would not be tolerated in any other country.

  • 21.
  • At 10:59 PM on 22 Jan 2008,
  • Garre wrote:

Australia has had this over zealous police situation particually in NSW look back at the incidents happening in the 60s , not so much in the bush / outback. Thats why after at 60 years I visit and have done for the past 20 years . Drive the highways look at the cameras taking pictures . Sorry will always be an Aussie but cant handle all the rules and heavily enforced (no explanation) allowed silly regulations . But go there to visit its okay .

  • 22.
  • At 08:30 AM on 23 Jan 2008,
  • Babaluka wrote:

Some mega chip on the shoulder here, with the hyper patriots weighing in how mother England is even worse! It was the same with the recent cricket debacle. Ponting and Co acted like a bunch of obnoxious twits, but saying so is like an attack on motherhood.
I was born and grew up in Sydney but have lived overseas for the last 15 years. During visits over this time I've seen Australia become much more bureaucratic, and Aussies becoming squarer and sadly losing a lot of their sense of humour. If you get a bit tipsy in a bar (which you'd think is the point) they won't serve you because some barely legal staff member says its against their responsible service policy. There are signs on the highways teling you to have a rest if you feel tired. Sandwhich hand jobs require 2 years minmum exerience and if you want to lug bricks on a building site you need to do a safety course. And these are just trifles compared to locking up refugees in the desert for years. I don't know if this ties in with the convict roots, but my observation is this: in other places, excessive government nannying is moderated by a healthy disrespect for the rules by the public. What is a stupid law between friends if? In Australia, people follow the letter of the law, and the result is an increasingly sterile and conformist society.

  • 23.
  • At 08:30 AM on 23 Jan 2008,
  • Phil wrote:

I agree with too much red tape and all that, but not 'over-policing'. We must draw a line between having fun and protecting ourselves.

Those policemen at the Australian Open were threatened and a punch was thrown at one of the officers. They felt threatened (who wouldn't?) so they used pepper spray. It can't get much more straight forward. I was one of the St. John Ambulance members who treated some of the victims and they didn't seem nearly as traumatised or injured as portrayed by the media. 'Policing our borders' is also a necessity, although admittedly, with the size of our 'navy' (a couple of frigates and a bunch of subs that don't even work) it is impossible to effectively police our borders.

BUT on the other hand, if you don't pay your parking fine, ASIO will come knocking, drag you off and do as Haneef.

As someone else correctly noted, the reason that there are three levels of government is that at the time of Federation, the states were extremely powerful; controlling taxes, trade, customs even their own defence forces! This is why the third level of government (councils) came into effect. Unfortunately, they still don't do anything.

  • 24.
  • At 12:22 PM on 23 Jan 2008,
  • Matt wrote:

I hate the Australian police and they are part of the reason I left the country to live in Thailand. In my mid 20's living in Melbourne (around 15 years ago) I was constantly harrassed without justification, including being slammed into the side of a patrol car. Once when a friend and I asked the reason we were being questioned they told us, "because you are wearing leather jackets". What a joke. Then on top of that, tax file numbers, speed cameras, red light cameras and all kinds of other daily reminders that Australia is an authoritarian police state. Give me Thailand any time, nobody hassles you and if you're not annoying anybody you are free to live your life as you please.

  • 25.
  • At 01:25 PM on 25 Jan 2008,
  • JP Ireland wrote:

Tim, NZ is regarded as the first nation giving women the right to vote, with other Australian states following close behind, but Australias human rights towards indigenous tribes was notbly bad and therefore true democracy not something Australian history can be particularly proud of. I see all this heavy handed stuff as a left over of the restrictions in human rights/freedom of speech (remember the boat people?) brought down by the Howard Govt getting cozy with the neocons in America. They are not isolated incidents but are incidents that hi-light what the public feel about australias recent political climate.

  • 26.
  • At 01:45 PM on 25 Jan 2008,
  • JP Ireland wrote:

Tim, NZ is regarded as the first nation giving women the right to vote, with other Australian states following close behind, but Australias human rights towards indigenous tribes was notbly bad and therefore true democracy not something Australian history can be particularly proud of. I see all this heavy handed stuff as a left over of the restrictions in human rights/freedom of speech (remember the boat people?) brought down by the Howard Govt getting cozy with the neocons in America. They are not isolated incidents but are incidents that hi-light what the public feel about australias recent political climate.

  • 27.
  • At 11:42 AM on 26 Jan 2008,
  • rosemary wrote:

The British cricket writer would be well advised to stick with the history of...cricket

Australian democracy was derived from Chartism, brought in by free migrants in the 1850s when the Chartist movement had been virtually extinguished in Britain and transportation was all but finished. It is the antithesis of 'top down' governance. Beginning in the 1850s the 6 Australian colonies became self governing so by the time of Federation in 1901, the federation selected drew influences from the US system with limits on centralised power. It was also meant to serve a much larger anticipated population - about 100 million - than now expected. Hence the 3 layers of government and similarities to the US.

The tennis episode sounds to have been an overreaction because of last year's Serb/Croat hostilities at tennis. It needs to be remembered that 23% of the Australian population was born overseas and generally people get along OK

  • 28.
  • At 11:46 AM on 26 Jan 2008,
  • rosemary wrote:

The British cricket writer would be well advised to stick with the history of...cricket

Australian democracy was derived from Chartism, brought in by free migrants in the 1850s when the Chartist movement had been virtually extinguished in Britain and transportation was all but finished. It is the antithesis of 'top down' governance. Beginning in the 1850s the 6 Australian colonies became self governing so by the time of Federation in 1901, the federation selected drew influences from the US system with limits on centralised power. It was also meant to serve a much larger anticipated population - about 100 million - than now expected. Hence the 3 layers of government and similarities to the US.

The tennis episode sounds to have been an overreaction because of last year's Serb/Croat hostilities at tennis. It needs to be remembered that 23% of the Australian population was born overseas and generally people get along OK

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