Sleepwalking Democrats?
The Democrats' debate in Las Vegas was interesting. I loved the introduction of a heckler in the early stages - presumably paid for by to give the whole thing a less plastic feel.
On substance: I will leave the discussion of asbestos pant-suit to other, less salubrious outlets. But it seems to me that the Democrats, all of them, are entering potentially hazardous ground on Iraq. It was striking that they talked, all of them, about ending the war. They used that word: ending. They did not use the word with the same number of syllables but an altogether different feel: winning. Now, a few months ago the E word sounded just fine to most Americans and the W word rather unrealistic, even idiotic and insulting. But now?
Politics is about narrative and the narrative at the moment is of a war that is no longer out of control. It could, of course, go downhill again rapidly but at the moment it is not. For the Democrats, isn't this is a trap even bigger than driving licences for illegal immigrants? Might they not sleepwalk into calling for a war to end that is actually being won?
And a word to CNN: years ago at my English boarding school we were told not to be boastful. Referring to your talented and thoughtful team of commentators and reporters as "the best political team on television" or whatever the precise phrase is, demeans them and you. After all, this is the "best website in cyberspace" and I am the "best Βι¶ΉΤΌΕΔ reporter writing this blog" but neither piece of information is interesting or validating unless it comes from others. The willingness of Americans to be proud of their achievements and unashamed to trumpet them is - in my humble view - a hugely attractive trait. But CNN has gone too far...
Hello, I'm 
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10 million IRANIANS displaced and in need of urgent humanitarian aid......
to be continued.....
Justin - you've hit the nail on the head here... this is why I hate Fox, CNN et al... they are not only rude and agressive towards guests that they invite on the their shows but don't agree with their viewpoint, but they are agressive at marketing themselves at something they are not.
Fair and balanced? Fox or Βι¶ΉΤΌΕΔ? You decide (as they would say!)
I think we already know the answer to THAT!
James
Re CNN: I agree with this.
There is a big difference between being proud of your achievements and outright bragging.
Bragging suggests that you didn't believe in yourself prior to your achievement. It's also arrogant.
It seems that we should take new pride in the fact that we are apparently "winning" an illegal and unjust war.
If that is the best we can do, then I guess we should be satisfied.
"The willingness of Americans to be proud of their achievements and unashamed to trumpet them is - in my humble view - a hugely attractive trait."
I suppose you mean that in the sense that everyone gets to laugh them. . . .
It's hilarious - Americans tell you repeatedly what a great country it is, yet it scores at the bottom of the developed world in just about every single measure of its citizens welfare
In health, education, poverty, crime and justice, social mobility even road safety the USA is at or near the bottom of the developed world.
There's a colossal disconnect from the realities and the propaganda pumped out to them by CNN, Fox and ABC.
90% of what Americans believe about the USA is a propaganda distortion of one sort or another.
And yet. . .and yet, more and more American are becoming aware that they are being lied to. It reminds me of the USSR in the 1980's - Russian's desperately wanted to believe the power and virility of the nation, but the evidence of failure became harder and harder to hide.
I think we are at the start of this stage in the USA. . . .
It's interesting to note that Georgia is home to both CNN and Sonny Perdue. Writing as a New Yorker, we wouldn't necessarily aspire to emulate either. Thank you for pointing out in so many words that Americans have significantly varying views, beliefs and philosophies as well as social ways from one another.
NB for the blogger: For a Brit, who is covering the States, I would highly recommend the book, Albion's Seed by David Hackett Fischer.
As Wikipedia describes: "The book's focus is on the details of the folkways of four groups of British people that settled and moved from distinct regions of the United Kingdom to its colonies in America. The argument is that the culture of each of the groups persisted, providing the basis for the modern United States."
The Iraq war is being won? Has Mr. Web even been to Iraq? Has he read about the enormous death toll. Mr Bush has had to destroy Iraq to save it. And it has been saved, so to speak, but for transnational oil corporations and the US military industrial congressional complex to dominate. The Iraq peoples' safety, representative democracy and the rule of law were the first legitimate goals of the invasion to be trampled by the ill planned invasion itself. What little remains of Iraq's civil society is safe for corporations to "own" - not safe for the people who actually still live in Iraq.
Winning? I think fewer people were killed in Iraq last week because we're running out of people to kill. Over a million have already died in America's quest for oil. Mass murder, torture, spying and lying. . .maybe we should all get used to it. How many fingers am I holding up, Winston?
Juston Webb conlcudes the Democrats should talk about winning the war in Iraq because he hears reports from Iraq that indicate the war can be won. He says the Dems will pull us out of a winning situtaion. What an amazing leap of logic. Let's say the situation in Iraq does become stabilized. Then the war is won? Al Qaida just goes away? World peace finally is achieved? Are you talking about the war in Iraq or the War on Terror? The Bush administration has invested heavily in branding the latter. Talking about winning it is naive. What are you going to do? Keep killing violent religious zealots until the world is safe? Simply invade countries where fundamentist extremeists exist? Does that include the US or the UK? Does that apply to all religions or just Islam? Get real.
For once I'm in agreement with the Dems. The definition of 'winning' doesn't match what's going on there. MSM is painting the picture of a more peaceful Baghdad (and Iraq) but that peace is coming at the cost of segregation. Enforced segregation - whether by deathsquads or the US military - is not winning.
But then, this administration has done very little to promote peace in the Middle East. So maybe they are winning.
Interesting that a Βι¶ΉΤΌΕΔ person (from a corporation, which, at least in its TV World News program, shows a consistently denigratory anti-US and Bush bias) should be one of the first of the media elite to see light at the end of the Iraqi tunnel. As in Vietnam, in which a Democrat president (supported by the media opinion formers)tied the military's hands behind their backs, preventing them winning that war, his lineal descendants also wanted to lose this war(and, indirectly, invite Muslim terrorists to repeat 9/11/2001 here)before it could, as it now appears, giving them the means to win a much more threatening war. I wonder how they will rationalise their volte faces.
I watched the Democrats’ debate from Geneva, Switzerland, staying up till early in the morning.
As a European, I found it fascinating and informative. Thanks to all the candidates.
At times, I was irritated by CNN moderator Wolf Blitzer's simplistic questions, especially when they cut out more pertinent ones from other journalists or the audience.
Senator Obama said: "What the American people are looking for right now is straight answers to tough questions." Correct.
Senator Clinton said: "It is important that we have a candidate that is tested and a president who is ready to lead from day one." Also correct.
On the basis of those two criteria and yesterday's performance, I would vote for Governor Bill Richardson.
He has more executive experience (national and international) than Senators Obama and Edwards, while at the same time sounding more straightforward than Senator Clinton.
If America had a Propaganda Minister, which CNN anchor would it be?
Unabashed, boastful, self promoting, choreographed propaganda. Abusive to other opinions. Filtering of information to manipulate mass opinions.
Edited interviews where you do not see the question/answer exchange with both participants facing you at the same time. (because the Wolf's questions are crafted and fitted to the sound bite long after the interview).
Sorry, I can not watch CNN very long. (I can not watch the opinionated rants of Fox News either.)
The political landscape in the US is pathetic. The ones you mentioned hope fewer people vote AGAINST them than vote against the others.
To date, none have offered a meaningful solution to any current issue. Other than saying, "I'm not George W", and promoting socialist ideals, ..., what do they offer?
In general I agree with your assessment of the Iraq War. The Democrats DO need to tread carefully here. But the fact that things may actually be improving in Iraq misses the larger issue: War should ALWAYS be the option of last resort. Period. The US and UK led invasion was morally wrong and just plain bad policy.
What have we accomplished by invading Iraq?
1) Tens of thousands of wounded US and UK military personnel.
2) Thousands of DEAD US and UK military personnel.
3) Hundreds of thousands of DEAD Iraqis.
4) MILLIONS of displaced Iraqis.
5) TRILLIONS of dollars (Pounds, Euros) wasted.
6) An ever plunging status in the eyes of the world.
7) Attempts by our own government (US, can't speak for UK) to redifine torture so we can say we are not doing it...even though we are.
8) A government (US, can't speak for UK) which detains people indefinitely without charge, access to legal counsel or other aspects of due process.
9) A government that spys on its OWN people (that's you and me in case you didn't know) WITHOUT warrents!
10) A government (US and UK) that can no longer carry the human rights banner with any degree of credibility
11) Oh yeah....one dead dictator, who by the way didn't have WMD and clearly could have been contained indefinitely without causing items 1 through 10.
Do you really believe Iraq war can be won through military?
James:
Liberals do not like Fox because it is one of the few American mainstream media outlets that broadcast ALL the news. New York times and other liberal outlets tend to suppress negatives (or bury them on page 26) about Democrats.
Fox leads all channels in presenting opposing viewpoints on all issues. Nobody else comes close to doing that.
Faux News .... say it often enough and people might believe it. I know otherwise ... they are the MOST balanced news outlet I've ever seen.
(And I'm not a fan of O'Reilly or Hanity)
To #5 Albanaich (Hi Andrew)
So the American media are just propagandists, eh?
Well maybe the answer to this is to have a state funded news organization with a privately elected board. Tax payers money will be used to pay for this wonderful news source, but tax payers won't have a say in what gets produced or reported. Then we can be told over and over that what we are receiving is "impartial" news based only on the "facts".
To James #2:
>
The answer is simple, James.
Neither.
You Brits just haven't woken up to that fact yet.
Oh, please... winning? It's in a sort of quiet curfew (in comparison with two months ago), but all the significant matters remain untouched and latent in Iraq. And if really US forces are winning and solving things there, why the same amount of combat troops remain there? Or they will keep occupying Iraq forever? Better to end it rapidly at this stage, before worsening signs start again.
The day I see this...
video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-7218920724339766288
And this...
video.google.com/videoplay?docid=2073592843640256739
Shown or discussed on the ¨news¨ will be the day the propaganda stops.
How deluded can a people be--it is the Βι¶ΉΤΌΕΔ that is abusive to anyone who doesn't agree with them, oh PLEASE, how many times has the Βι¶ΉΤΌΕΔ talked about how they are the BEST news orginization in the world--if you are so great and YOUR public loves you so much, end the license fee and give people a choice---Βι¶ΉΤΌΕΔ--humble? How deluded can people be? PS, Do not believe for ONE SECOND I will EVER forget the news show the day after 9/11 when the British public made Henry Kissenger cry! I'm just glad to see America declining as a world power because you hypocrites are going to be shown up for what you are--I'm a poor American so I don't care--maybe even some of you illegals and only here for the money immigrants will LEAVE!!!!!!
As you can see from these comments, many Americans do not to see the events in Iraq as "progress."
The democrats have been pushing the narrative that Bush is evil and the war is already lost for so long, that they cannot pull back at this point. They will anger their base.
Given the number of untruths the Americans have put out regarding Afghanistan and Iraq I take the 'briefings' by US generals that things are improving in Iraq with more than a pinch of salt.
Yet another example of US friendly fire killing 45 of the Taji Awakening Council - a pro-US Sunni group - has been claimed to be an operation that killed insurgents!
With regard to the question of the US ever 'winning' in Iraq, it would mean Moqtadr Sadr changing his tune and agreeing to US troops staying in Iraq (in those permanent military bases being built).
There are others who are also violently against a US presence in Iraq.
I don't see the two being compatible with 'winning'.
I was last in Las Vegas in February 2005 with my second wife. It is still a great place for a holiday even if you arrive by accident on Presidents weekend, as we did. Elton Jon was giving a show but I didn't bother to go even at the special price of $100 on the day. Throu an agency, we got a penthouse at the Pony Club with the biggest frige Kelvinator, I,ve ever seen. The food is still great at any time of day and the service better. For rather complicated reason, we neede to get marriage a second time which was very straight forward and we have got a very impressive certificate from the State of Navada to prove it.
It felt as if New York and Washington were on another continent and the rest of the world, Europe included was on another planet.
Yes, I like America and Americans very much but I am not fooled by the either. Whatever the official statists said the slowdown was already obvious. America, built on transance and success no longer gave the impression of being young and vibrant as it did when I first toured round in 1984 crossing the Atlantic from Heathrow in a Pan-Am Boing 747 are travelling within the States on Republic. Neither airline exists any more and the Delta 767 we few in from Barcelona was really showing its age. Most of the air hostesses, nice as they were, were also ex-Pan Am. and so it went on.
The only thing I remember hearing on CNN was the result of a survay in German that 65% of those interviewed preferred Mr Putin to 'Our President'. I must admit I found the shocked tone in which this was announced rather amusing.
So who will be the next President of the United States. I have no idea but I dare to suggest that he or she should be one who can deal first and formost with domestic problems - the economy, the price of fuel, jobs, etc. However I share a gem from an Americal friend of mine, one Sam Bushh, I kid you not and yes he is a distant cousin of the present incumbant of the White House. I quote: 'Well - we've turned are election process into a Circus. Not supprising sometimes one of the clowns gets elected'.
To Justin Webb:
Always interesting when a European preaches to another about bragging.
The biggest braggarts, IMO, come from your side of the pond.
Perhaps if Euros learned that not everyone thought of them as the sophisticated, cultured, intelligent beings you all think you are?
"The willingness of Americans to be proud of their achievements and unashamed to trumpet them is.."
Isn't that part of the reason why Americans are so despised sometimes? Why do they feel they need to trumpet their achievements? I have a lot more respect for a person who achieves a lot but doesn't boast much about it, or as you put it "trumpet" it to the world. No achievement happens in a vacuum, due to the sole hard work of one person or one nation. We are all interconnected and responsible when one succeeds or fails.
btw, the latest CNN debate was staged to support Hillary, in hope she would recover from her last debate. We are only now finding out that CNN failed to disclose that, after the debate the commentary by James Carville, who glorified Hillary soon after it was over, he was an informal consultant to the Hillary campaign
You're far too kind to CNN. The channel has become a joke. Their international coverage is nonexistent and their political coverage is all "he said-she said" that completely trivializes the democratic process. Wolf Blitzer's demanding yes/no answers on complicated issues was only the tip of the iceberg of the horrible way they conducted the debate (though it was no worse than any of the others. MSNBC's "lightning round," anyone?) Calling their team "the best political team on television" is as accurate as Fox's claim to be "fair and balanced." Both are on the vanguard of the continuing idiofication of America. Thank God for Βι¶ΉΤΌΕΔ America.
Personally, after 42 years of living in the States, Mr Webb, I am quite sick of the hubris... Proud of WHAT achievements exactly? Shameless speculative schemes that blow up in everyone's face, and are then lied about? A broken infrastructure? An educational system that in the 30 years since I attended school, and got decent training, has deteriorated beyond the point of no return? Suggestions that we burn corn, or better yet, LIQUEFY COAL for fuel? Embarrassing leaders? And that constant, relentless, shameless thump-thump-thump chest-pounding narcissism?
The thing about this war, friends and colleagues, is that it has already cost far too much... And even if it were suddenly by some miracle to enter some steady state where only a few dozen troops a month lose eyes, limbs, brains, lives, IT WOULD STILL COST TOO MUCH. Work out the numbers: this is one project that will never generate a profit, except for the profiteers. And to forget that they exist, that they thrive, that they have accessories in the government renders any claim by so-called journalists about being "the best in the world" disgraceful. Decent journalists are too busy doing their job enlightening the public to be thumping their chests, or patting each other on the back. What exactly are they thinking when they utter those shamelessly arrogant words? That they'll never have to eat them? When, in fact, they are eating them every day now, and hour by hour?
Fox and CNN are ratings driven and American news media is entertainment driven. Ratings and commercials matter more than journalistic integrity and responsible informative broadcasting. Do you think car chases are important to national politics?
Every journalist on the air at Fox has a right slant except for the wafish, comely and timid Colmes and Greta who has a speech impediment.
Check out the statistics of mediamatters.org on Fox if you are actually interested in opening your eyes Winston.
Hundreds of thousands of Iraqis are dead and millions are displaced. How fair is Fox being to them other than mentioning them as casualties of war. Italian and German television showed from day one the graphic nature of bodies lying in the streets of Iraq.
If our American media wasn't censoring everything we wouldn't be five years into this Halliburton sponsored quagmire.
Dick Cheney, John Yoo and David Addington have destroyed the integrity of America in the eyes of the world and waterboarded the Constitution more than anyone in the history of our country.
Cheney learned everything he knows from working in the Richard Nixon administration. As Nixon once said, "When the President does it, that means that it's not illegal." and "Short of changing human nature, therefore, the only way to achieve a practical, livable peace in a world of competing nations is to take the profit out of war."
It's interesting reading the trade in degrading comments that's been going on here.
It seems many Americans view criticism of America as anti-Americanism and thus feel the need to launch back with insults about how it's a thousand times worse in Europe.
Likewise, some Europeans (or rather Britons) seem to have a need to write unnecessarily insulting remarks about America.
Of course, it all boils down to ignorance and a general lack of understanding.
Ultimatly, this blog is not about Europe, it's about America. That's why its caled "Justin Webb's America".
So, to our American cousins, I'm afraid you're going to have to expect to read criticism about America. Retoring back with comments about Europeans is fruitless.
Justin Webb is the Βι¶ΉΤΌΕΔ's corespondent working in America. Therefore, it is his job to scrutinize what is put before him. It is constructive criticism. He has said nothing here to support the Democrats or said what he thinks they should do. He is asking you what they should do and made observations about the possible scenarios.
The fact is, compared to Fox News etc, the Βι¶ΉΤΌΕΔ is fair and balanced.
The "so-called" liberal bias that the Βι¶ΉΤΌΕΔ is often accused of is total nonsense. The Βι¶ΉΤΌΕΔ is the most impartial news organisation in the world. That is not an observation. It's a fact.
CNN aside, any rational person must be able to see that Fox News is almost completley one-sided.
Bill O'Reilly has said he has no respect for John Edwards and has organised a picket against Mark Cuban.
Another Fox News anchor accused the Βι¶ΉΤΌΕΔ's Newsround website of appeasing terrorists.
These examples demonstrate the bias and irresponsible nature of Fox News' journalism.
Despite claims to the contrary, I'm sure most Americans are level headed and realise this.
"The most trusted name in news."
-CNN
CNN = infotainment
Βι¶ΉΤΌΕΔ = news
Ending vs. Winning is easy --$$ they need to keep the flow of campaign contributions.. Specific big money interests like MoveOn.org will keep giving to them contributions as long as they use this view --Ending the War.. The Winning words will come in after the contribtutions can not be recieved.
This will be a garaunteed flip come next year and the top runners for the Dems will be singing the winning song...
Well, all I can say is CNN and Fox are probably the main reasons American's are discovering Βι¶ΉΤΌΕΔ News (both satellite and web), Βι¶ΉΤΌΕΔ Radio One, and other Βι¶ΉΤΌΕΔ venues. The reporting is fair and balanced ... and not based on how many major advertisers it attracts.
This is not to bash American reporters, as I am from America and know there are some great reporters in my country .. but to state that when the format on how to report is based on income, it will affect the truth.
The reason they do not use the word winning is because it is an impossible feat. You cannot win a war on terror. There will always be terror. The war is not against iraq, it is against terrorist organizations. Terror is a word not an army. It is impossilbe fight. If we were truly fighting terror, we would be at war with North Korea, Iran, Saudi Arabia, Iraq, Afghanistan, and God knows how many more countries. We saw what declaring victory on a terror war really gets you when Bush declared victory back in 2003. Now here it is 2007 almost 2008 and we are still there fighting. So end the war is the correct term. Win the war is an imposibillity.
I'm an American, and I have to say, I can't stand reading CNN. It has gotten so trashy in recent months, and it's become less of an issue of looking for different veiwpoints on news stories than looking for any viewpoints at ALL. I keep trying to give CNN another chance, but each time I'm disappointed. Keep it up Βι¶ΉΤΌΕΔ!
Two things:
Yes, CNN and Fox "News" are in fact driving Americans to discover the Βι¶ΉΤΌΕΔ. I've been amazed for the last month at the startling, beautiful difference, and came here on the suggestion of a couple of friends who have also discovered the difference. One of them had a lengthy discussion while in Italy which inspired the transition. I've appreciated helpful format things (such as including links to crazy things like background articles so a young adult like myself can actually get to know the world around me), and feel that an objective, outside view of the country I live in is crucial on general principle. It's sad now that I'm seeing it all, though. I wish we would borrow just a page from the French playbook, and see people doing something in response to this mess. It's sickening.
Please do realize, though, that Hollywood, TV, and the rest of the media do not show you the average American. Bush is not an American, anymore than Hitler was/is the average German (I'm not suggesting that Bush is quite that bad, just that the leader is not the people, whether or not that is ideal). There are plenty of us that are not ridiculous chest-pounders. We're just not in any important positions, unfortunately....
No, many Americans do _not_ handle criticism- and perhaps that is the most terrifying thing of all. I was in a chat room once where someone was being picked on for poor grammar. They argued it wasn't necessary, and I mentioned that no, it wasn't, but that it made me sad that many of the international students I worked with spoke English considerably better (and more clearly) than the average, native-born American that I spoke to. I was told to "silence [my] anti-American tongue", was publicly harassed, and then Ignored. This is terrifying because you can't fix anything if you won't admit there are any problems there. And that incident summarizes a great deal of what is wrong here- no one wants to admit there's any problems, or if they do they just want to complain.
A last thought- how exactly does Democracy work, especially when it is built on lies? When I voted a year ago, I voted Democrat because I was told that they would deny Bush his absurd military spending, and that if there was a Democrat majority in Congress we would get our men out of this war. We now have a Democrat majority. They've denied Bush nothing. Nothing! And as far as I can tell, they've not even tried. So now the buzz is the next presidential election, and I just slump over, defeated. How can you vote responsibly when the whole process is based in lies? I may be just approaching it all with the naivette of my youth, but if there is any objective advice out there, I would certainly love to hear it.
I just finished reading Matt Bai's book (he writes for the Sunday New York Times Magazine) about Moveon.org.
The Democrats entire platform seems to be "we hate Bush." Fine and dandy, but Mr. Bush is gone as of January 20th, 2009. Then what?
The Republicans mess of course is well documented. No major candidate represents what most Americans need.
I know, now I sound like Larry the Cable Guy, as in 'git r done."
The war against Iraq is being won? Given the enormous pressure on the U.S. military to vindicate its presence as invaders, we would be prudent to recall that in the Vietnam war 'body count' figures of enemy dead were largely fabrications. Those statistics were dutifully accepted by the news media. In Iraq, how are statistics being manipulated by the military? Is an Iraqi who is killed by violence only classified as such if they have been shot through the head? And again the U.S. news media appear to be swallowing and disseminating the official propaganda lines.
Given the actual reasons for invading Iraq, the Bush administration would cite as another and more final 'mission accomplished' the military's claims, the passage of the extortionate Big Oil-sponsored petroleum bill by the Iraqi parliament (if that ever happens), the full staffing of the enormous U.S. embassy, and the completion of the permanent U.S. military bases. But more likely, the Iraqis, including such formidable adversaries as Moqtada al-Sadr and the Mahdi Army, will wage continual warfare until the invaders depart. In any event the conflict is mortgaging the U.S.'s future to China, Saudi Arabia, and other countries which are essentially financing it by investing in U.S. government bonds.
There's no such thing as "ending" a war - there's only winning and capitulation. We know what the Democrats are: traitors and fools.
i have no read all of your comments but some of you seem to argue that America is not a great place or that we are not winning this war, or argueing that if we are wining the war was still unjust.
To those of you who argue that aermica is such a bad place i asked you to explain why millions around the world would do anything in order to get a chance to come to america. As far as the war goes, according to icasualities.org and its statistics us military deaths are down to 1.3 a day in november from 4.3 in just mary of this year. coupled with this civ deaths are down to 505 this month so far from 3014 in feb of this year. Along with this iraqis are feeling safer, with car bombings occuring less and less and teh country finally becoming something to eb proud of. As far as this war being "unjust and illegal" i dont know how you could argue this side because every war is consdiered illegal by the oppossing side, also last time i checked saddam hussein got away with attacking kuwait in the 90s and he got what was coming, also WMDS have been found, mustard gas and missles that violated UN treaties and requirements, along with his rejection of nuclear inspectors.
I could not resist following up on some of the other comments. I have an Anglophile streak, but I am enjoying being able to follow Βι¶ΉΤΌΕΔ on my computer.
I am old enough to only remember the three networks. Almost the entire nation watched and trusted Walter Cronkite. Now, you can "shop" for the news that fits your viewpoint. You don't HAVE to see the other side.
Marie, the only way you are naive is the way many of us start out. Then cynicism sets in. Do not be surprised next year if you see all sorts of Third Party candidates. I know who I want, but he does not stand a chance.
What has amazed - and saddened - me is the amount of unqualified rubbish and bias coming from both sides. For instance Kathleen (posts 17 and 25) issues such horrible generalisations as 'Perhaps if Euros learned that not everyone thought of them as the sophisticated, cultured, intelligent beings you all think you are?' as well as statement which are just patently untrue such as (Neo Politicus post 39) '[in war] there's only winning and capitulation.'
As well as this some of the anit-american sentiment is a bit strong. One poster called Bush evil - a bit strong for someone who, we must remember, believes he is doing good.
It's so nice to hear a Britt say at least a few good things about the American people. The Brittish have been such great friends to us - well at least after the revolution of course - through all of our adventures. This Yankee would like to say thank God for the English!