ΒιΆΉΤΌΕΔ

Perhaps somebody should offer to meet Mr. Mehmet's overtime bill. Or, if all the assembled politicos want to eschew the Eric Pickles mantra that all election counts must happen overnight, then everbody perform their counts the following day. Aside from this local difficulty can some-one ask if Labour's Tony Blair style 'policy delivery unit' comes with a sofa? Not only that but commissioning another commission hardly sounds like a great leap forward, haven't they been consulting 'widely'? And I repeat from a previous comment that this election is not about 'sending a message to the Westminster Coalition', it's about Wales and the next five years of Welsh government. Perhaps the utterer of those words should go and lie down on a yacht somewhere.
P.S. If you really want upset Pickles, Prescott, et al, vote 'Yes' in the AV referendum.

I don't always agree with the Lord, but he is right to insist that the Electoral Comission show a bit of bottle on this issue.

The most important consideration here is what is more important to the Welsh Elector? Knowing who has won the Welsh general election or knowing who has won a cosmetic little referendum on the voting system which won't change anything, other than giving the Lib Dems an artificial boost in seat allocations?

As such, the Welsh election should be the first priority and all the constituency and regional votes should be counted together on the Thursday night.

The AV referendum is a much lower priority, and therefore these votes should be counted together on the Friday evening.

The Lib Dem/Conservatives in London have already shown a lack of respect for Wales's general election by insisting that this referendum be held on the same day. We now have a situation where we have a council jobsworth showing the same lack of respect for the event, and the Electoral Comission sitting on their hands. Let's hope our own political parties can show a little self-respect and support the Presiding Officer to ensure that our election comes first on May 5th.

It is not funny. Liberal spelling, Overnight counts, Labour manifesto.....on it goes and we the British taxpayer has to pay for all of them. we have had 12 years of this. What about a real matter...why do electors in Chester have less power than an elector in Cardiff? Devolution has created a electoral conflict in the ballot box. A common British parliament requires a common British vote. Common representation is the new debate.

Hold hard there, Hold hard!! Has Mr. Mehmet the RIGHT to count on the following day? He has.

Cardiff is always moaning on about not getting 'nuff respect, well show some respect for the decision made in North Wales. You count if you want to we'll count when we want to.

You'd think it was all one country the way Cardiff goes on.

Some consistency would be helpful, we are one nation Sedwot, and Connell the voters of Chester aren't in Wales, so don't get a vote - or were you being deeply ironic?

My preference is for the count all on the same day, I'd prefer overnight because I like the drama, and I think that is good for democracy. But if one region of Wales can't count on the night then I think all regions should count the next day. As was done with the first National Assembly election.

Reply to Lyn David Thomas
Thank you but I am perfectly aware Chester is not in Wales. Under devolution why is an elector in Chester not allowed to vote on a school (or health policy etc) in Cardiff while an elector in Cardiff can still vote on a school in Chester. This is not equitable. Repeal is in the air.

It is high time that Dafydd Elis-Thomas grew up.

This is typical Plaid whinge - the people of North Wales are victims of a wicked Returning Officer, says Thomas - its a plot engineered by London says Thomas.

If Thomas was at all concerned about the interests of the voters then each constituency would declare at the same time. This has of course never happened.

Daffyd Ellis Thomas (I will never accept a peerage) Aka Lord Thomas as ever is going for maximum self publicity

Why spend a lot of bread to allow the media the circus of their "election night"? Here in Scotland, Fife is also counting on the Friday. The country will be no worse off and the Council will have saved money. Remember, we're all in this together and if there's no money for improving child poverty, there's no money for flashy "election nights".

Could this be a cunning plot?

A last minute boost for a flagging Plaid Cymru?

Picture the scene...A Ieuanair flight lands at Rhoose (sorry) Cardiff Airport, and down steps a triumphant Dafydd Elis-Thomas !

To an excited Welsh press, our Dafydd waves a letter hot from Mohammed Mehmet..... . "Peace in our time" he shouts..."Our votes SHALL be counted on the same day as those in the fleshpots of Cardiff...and we shall all go to the ball"

Meanwhile just a short drive along the Barry Road to Culverhouse Cross, and an even shorter drive along the Ely Link Road to the Senedd, an unusually suspicious Carwyn Jones wonders if Dafydd's Neville Chamberlain stunt might just knock a few votes off Labour's majority.

Surely not !

This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the house rules. Explain.

It gets more "through the looking glass" each day ...

... Crossroads , at #9, created the image of Dafydd Elis-Thomas triumphantly announcing "our votes shall be counted on the day, we shall go to the ball", the only thing missing from the image is the Walrus and the Carpenter ...

... the two characters, both predatory, eat the oysters (voters) who thought they were off on a walk by the beach, does Elis-Thomas eat oysters I wonder, for certain he would spend the taxpayers money without a thought .....

"The time has come," the Walrus (Elis-Thomas) said,

To talk of many things:
Of shoesβ€”and shipsβ€”and sealing-waxβ€”
Of cabbagesβ€”and kingsβ€”
And why the sea is boiling hotβ€”
And whether pigs have wings.

Through the Looking-Glass, and What Alice Found There (1871)

No 4 SEDWOT -

Clearly you have issues with geography.

1. You say "Cardiff is always moaning on about not getting 'nuff respect, well show some respect for the decision made in North Wales". FYI Lord Ellis Thomas is the Assembly Member for Dwyfor Meirionnydd. The last time I looked this was slap bang in North Wales.

2. You say "You'd think it was all one country the way Cardiff goes on". Well yes Wales is one country and has been for over a thousand years. If you have some bizarre conspiracy theory that indicates it is not then please let us know as I am up for a laugh.

A bit unhinged yesterday,were you John?

Hope you will be better today.

#12, one thousand years ago there were 6 kingdoms ....

Gwynedd
Powys
Deheubarth
Brycheniog
Morgannwg
Gwent

... Wales did not exist, it gained its existence through the expedience of politics ...

... even Hywel Dda was unable to create a complete kingdom from the component kingdoms listed above, this incomplete kingdom was broken up following his death.

To quote history it is imperative to know history.

Well, Labour, Plaid and Lib Dems have all struck up a hearty list of typos, or in deference to some of our more excitable bloggers, should that be typo's or TYPOS? There is some scope for teasing out Freudian slips from some of meatier morsels.

Can the Conservatives do better (or worse)?

I do hope somebody will arrange a Typo Awards Dinner afterwards. The invite will either have the time, date or place wrong, or perhaps all.

#14

By the same token England did not exist either.

A kingdom equates to a nation / nation state as does a cluster of kingdoms. Cherry picking dates does not constitute a debate.

Calm Down RushRush, Calm Down!! Irony dear boy, Irony. Lord Ellis Thomas, of the ermine and silk, Peer of the realm, is "Cardiff" ie. the political establishment.

Dwyfor Meirionydd may have been "Slap bang in North Wales" last time you looked, nevertheless it is in fact in this discussion a constituency of Mid and West Wales.

Where I live, (about as far North as you can go without getting your feet wet) Cardiff means little or nothing. A day out in Dublin, Chester or Liverpool yes, Cardiff?
You Jest!!

#14 what nonsense you write at times ....

The issue here, surely, is about the coverage, or lack of it, that the result of the Wales GWE will get from the UK media. That has to be of interest to anybody who has the interests of Wales at heart. I realise that that definition excludes quite a few posters on here, but the rest, (most of us) would prefer to see the result headlined in the London papers on Friday, wouldn't we? I know I would.

No 14 said: "To quote history it is imperative to know history"

Where do we start - with Cunedda arriving in Wales as the Romans depart or with Rhodri Mawr who ruled over Wales in the 9th C?

Of course countries and nations take different forms from generation to generation due to different pressures - but Wales has one of the most clearly defined and long standing borders in Europe - called Offa's Dyke supposedly built in the 8thC (although earlier according to other sources).

This was at a time of the English Heptarchy - brought to a crashing end on an afternoon in 1066 when the kingdom of England was finally united and born.

We are now in another period of re-definition ...... but the constant is that Wales still is and has existed for well over a thousand years.

So my advice to you is: to quote our history it is imperative that you know our history.

17 SEDWOT – Here goes with your geography lesson. Lord Ellis Thomas is the democratically elected representative of a North Wales constituency and as for your remark that β€œWhere I live, (about as far North as you can go without getting your feet wet) Cardiff means little or nothing”. FYI - Cardiff is the capital of the country of Wales and the home to the National Assembly of Wales the democratic institution which legislates and administers the internal affairs of our country and an institution that only last month had a massive mandate from north walians to legislate without recourse to Westminster.

14 – John Tyler – here goes for your history lesson. Clearly Wales existed over a thousand years ago. Perhaps not as one single political entity (but that certainly happened under Gruffudd ap Llywelyn in less than 950 years ago) but as an independent entity from the rest of the island of Britain with its own language, church, culture and legal system where its people saw themselves as having a common identity and its neighbours (the English) saw the Welsh as having a common identity. By your reasoning Ireland, Kurdistan and the Basque Country currently do not or should not exist as for all of these countires parts of the their traditional land mass are found across more than one jurisdiction.

Anyway it’s as pity that you were not around in Offa’s court in the 8th century as it would have saved him and his subject a lot of trouble in building that dyke between the English and the ?.

You go onto say that Wales it β€œgained its existence through the expedience of politics”. Tell me if I am wrong but wasn’t the Act of Union passed by both Parliaments of Edinburgh and Westminster. I think you will find that most countries come about in some shape of form via the politics of the day.

OH FOR MERCIES SAKE!!! It was a flippant remark about the difference between the outlook of Dafydd Elis Thomas as a Politician in Cardiff and a quite reasonable but parochial judgement by Mr Mehmet and before you know it we're looking at the arrival of the strathclyde scots in Gwynedd.

21# rushrushrush: you cite poster 14's quote that

"Wales did not exist, it gained its existence through the expedience of politics ..."

When you think about it – and can anybody here think of a single example of one nation, in the whole of recorded history, that came into existence through anything other than through some political expedience - it's like saying that birds can only fly because they have wings.....

#22 SEDWOT – the only thing I can say to you is to quote from earlier in the stream......

...... β€œTo quote history it is imperative to know history”

21. rushrushrush wrote:

β€œ17 SEDWOT – Here goes with your geography lesson. Lord Ellis Thomas is the democratically elected representative of a North Wales constituency.... ”

Except, of course, that his constituency is in the Mid and West Wales political region. So, the timing of his result will not be affected one way or the other by this little spat.

Rush Rush;
"Here goes with your geography lesson. Lord Ellis Thomas is the democratically elected representative of a North Wales constituency"

Here goes your politics lesson Lord Ellis Thomas is the elected member for Dwyfor Meirionydd which is one of the 8 MID AND WEST WALES SEATS. NOT ONE OF THE 9 NORTH WALES SEATS.

25 - SEDWOT -

1. At no point did I say that Dwyfor Meirionnydd was is the North Wales constituency. Please tell me where I said that?

2. What I said was Dwyfor Meirionydd is in North Wales, which it certainly is. Lets take Blaenau Ffestiniog and the Llyn Peninsula which are in the constituency. Have you ever heard anyone say that Blaenau Ffestiniog or the Llyn Peninsula are in west Wales? Answer - No. Have you ever heard anyone say that Blaenau Ffestiniog or the Llyn Peninsula are in mid Wales? Answer - No.

Dear me, this ramble has well and truly lost its way, hasn't it ? I've scrolled up to the top about six times to try and remember what was being discussed, nothing much of any interest unfortunately. We've never cared what North Wales does anyway.

Re 27

"We've never cared what North Wales does anyway."

Another unnecessarily nasty comment.

Have you finally decided, then, that you are a royalist after all? That would explain the royal 'We', I suppose.

And for someone who claims not to care, then it is ironic in the extreme that you give the north a gramatically unnecessary capital 'n'!

#20 ... the capitalisation of "North" at #19.

"North Wales" is correct where the writer capitalises points of the compass when referring to specific regions, in this case a region of Wales.

Betsan firmly establishes "North Wales" as a region where she refers to the "Returning Officer for North Wales", capitalisation of "Returning" kept for accuracy of the original.

Try an apology #20, in the crusade for correct punctuation you were bumptiously incorrect Mr Dafydd. I commend to you "The Blue Book of Grammar and Punctuation", capitalisation taken from the book title, available from grammarbook.com.

My 29 ..... #20 ... the capitalisation of "North" at #19.

... should read

#28 ... the capitalisation of "North" at #27.

Re 30

I doubt very much that merthyrmarkf was referring to the political entity within a National Assembly context, as it is quite clearly just a nasty expression of his prejudices.

I notice that you had nothing to say about that. I notice that you didn't ask him for an apology for that.

In the context of his comment there was no need for a capital 'n'.

Re 28 etc, about North Wales capitalization, I use it to indicate a difference between North Wales and South Wales. South Wales keeping the rest of Wales going economically if you get my drift..
I think I speak for the majority in the South not having the slightest interest in what happens past Brecon. Why is this "unnecessarily nasty" I'm not having a go a the North Wales folk, I just don't care when they count their votes, who they vote for etc. Maybe if I lived in Chester, Wrexham, Liverpool etc. then I'd take more interest.

Re 32

So I was right. His explanation is sheer nonsense. Perhaps now, John Tyler, you will ask for that apology from merthyrmarkf.

Well it seems you were correct, the capitalisation is incorrect, it must be something to do with the Β£600 per pupil year.

On the second matter, one persons nonsense is another persons lucidity ....

And of course that Β£600 figure is bogus. It includes the extra cost of PFI, and does not include the money spent centrally by LEAs in Wales for pupils... a case of comparing apples and pears again John.

Lyn, if it were a bogus figure our representatives at the Assembly would have dashed the figures to dust; I remember the promise made that an investigation would be made and the outcome published ...

... nothing has been forthcoming, the money has been spent somewhere, the children supported through the Assembly budget were assigned the very same amount as assigned in England.

The rest, as they say, is history.