ΒιΆΉΤΌΕΔ

If Jeremy joins Sir Stuart Rose for lunch I presume the menu will include meat and two veg

I was forced to buy boxers at M&S because the good (old-fashioned) looser pants design has disappeared, at least from Exeter shelves.
What is the point of a button fly?
Cheers
Peter Brain

J.P. has always had a knack for getting straight down to the crutch of the matter.

Coincidentally, I also observed much faster than expected big-toe penetration. This in M&S's not-inexpensive hose, labelled "the most comfortable sock in the world". Years ago, you could buy "thermal" socks incorporating polypropylene fibre, and these lasted indefinitely; hence their withdrawal from the market, it must be assumed.

I endorse M&S underwear, but men should wear trunks if they are well hung. No problems.

I have worn M&S pants for decades - I'm 58. In recent times, I too have noticed a lack of support where it is most needed, resulting in a need to 'redress the balance' of things.

Like Jeremy, I felt that it was an age thing and that I was getting heavier 'down there'. Now I'm not so sure; maybe M&S imported pants are stretching their credibility too far!

My husband, aged 61, also noticed a lack of support in the last year or so. As a result, he buys his pants in Next and does not experience GA anymore.

If Jeremy can cause all this interest about his views on pants ,think what he could do if ; only now and again mind you,he mentioned a Parliament for England.
Please Jeremy, England needs a St. George,and there are no patriots at Westminster,with or without well fitting pants.
Eleanor Justice

At last. Men are usually mortally embarassed talking about their underwear. Good for JP getting it all out in the open. The women of the UK should be delighted that men are tonight investigating their undies drawers and re-thinking their choices.
Ask yourself - why isn't there a nice collective noun like lingerie for men's kecks? Why do so many men abdicate all responsibility for buying new pants to their wife/girlfriend/mum? This is where M&S has benefited for years - their conservative multipacks are safe and simple. Come on guys, get out there and shop for yourselves (and that doesn't mean buying boxers that sing or those jokey printed pants because they're only funny while you're on your own in the bathroom).

Join the girls Jeremy! There was a time when us girls needn't go anywhere but M&S for our knickers, but alas no more.

Personally I believe that the quality of the knickers was the driving force behind the M&S success story in the 80's and so if I were Stuart Rose, I'd take Jeremy's concerns in the 'naughties' sorry I mean 'noughties' very seriously.

Jeremy should wear a kilt if he has sporran trouble

Why did Paxo not tell M&S to stuff there pants....where a monkey puts is nuts?
I know terrible joke. But I am sure Mr. Paxman could afford to buy Gucchi at Β£40 per pair.
Moral of story 'You get what you pay for' and quality doe's not come cheap.

I sympathise with Jeremy but always thought M&S pants a poor man's Y-Fronts. On moving to Sweden five years ago I discovered Body Zone from KappAhl and have had to never look down. I will happily send Jeremy a pair to try if he lets me know his size (as it were).

No MOD laptops?

They have lost 400 in the last five years.

On the rum ration site they say when the news broke people rushed home to bring laptops back to the office. They also say one officer to lose a laptop is now Minister for Security? Meanwhile the army rumour site even suggests what the password might be.

Would you leave a laptop in a car overnight?

My old pants are about to be replaced and I am dreading having to find new and comfortable ones from M&S. I did a test purchase last summer and sadly they went to the bin. I am in total agreement with JP's view on socks, poor quality, short and lack of plain colours other than in mixed sets, please get back to basics M&S.
While on the question of mens wear why oh why do we have to be so restricted on trousers - flat fronts do not suit all men - lets have more pleats please as they are considerably more accommodating!

I'll be brief: just buy a "six pack" every year in the January sales, whether from M&S or BHS etc who cares as long as you have enough pairs? I have several good pairs from BHS as it happens and also a 3 pack from TCHIBO called "3 slips" in German and "3 briefs" in English - or is it the other way round? Incidently, during my army service in the 1970s, C&A were quite big in underpants - and everything else - and their popular TV ad featured "Man At C&A". We were issued with army issue underwear (from Man at Q&M!) which we NEVER wore although my dad wore what looked like his WW11 issue underpants which never seemed to have buttons but left nothing to the imagination. I and my generation were definately ready customers for jockeys: anything not to be associated with our fathers and the crosses (or should that be y-fronts?) they bore stoically.

This is no ordinary Paxo stuffing

This is *M and S* :

Newsnight's finest inquisitor, with reinforced gusset ....

More about pants! Some of you may have come across Coleridge's idea of Pantisocracy, using the word 'pan' in its original greek meaning, which was his view of a democratic socialist society! Not sure what it has to do with Marks and Spencers, but the pun struck me as rather funny.

Although I have not worn M& S pants for years. (I found them to restrictive.) I have seen a similar reduction in quality of Sunspel Boxer shorts, it used to be case that I would wear them out over a few years but now the elastic fails well before the cotton wears thin. Unfortunately my wife cannot replace the elastic whereas she could sew patches over the worn through bits on their older better quality product.

M & S socks do wear out more quickly than before and as for the choice of colours! Why is not possible to buy long socks in plain dark colours anymore? Not everyone wants to wear garishly bright socks!

Well Done Paxo! for bringing this issue to the fore, even if it was unintentional.

Lisbon Treaty: This is one subject which Newsnight could run with over many weeks. It could help clarify whether the widespread fear that there will be devolution (Balkanisation) of England into Regional Assemblies (each between the size of Finland and Sweden) has any basis in fact, or is just scaremongering by EU sceptics.

To some, New Labour appear to be nation state wreckers, promoting the de-regulated free-market which will just benefit large companies like Tesco, Sainsbury, foreign state nationals like EDF etc.

New Labour's notion of 'consultation', 'debate' and 'democracy' to date has been one of deciding policy 'opaquely', and ignoring dissent in pursuit of devolution (see the passage of the Offender Management Bill/Act 2007 through the Lords for a good illustration).

All that matter are the numbers in the final ratification vote, and in Miliband's view, no doubt, they are home and dry, as they have a majority.

Are the sceptics right to be very worried about the dark side of the 53 article FCHR?

Jeremy,

Quite agree m&s socks always fail at the big toe.

On a less ammusing point a future topic for the show could be too look at the 'extreme rubbish' even coming to the ΒιΆΉΤΌΕΔ - 'I'm refering to Ben Foggle's 'extreme dreams' series which appears to have started rather badly ... I'm disappointed because I had thought he is a decent sort...As far as I can see the idea is to select a team that will provide 'tv ineterest' and then scare the nation witless by telling everyone how dangerous it is (when of course there is some danger) while not telling everyone at home that the safety team is there in the canoes!

Is this programme selling a lie ?

Best regards

Peter

It's funny how much of a stir Jeremy causes on such random issues. I definitely agree with him on m and s socks though- they always develop big toe holes! Not going to come up with any more witticisms, I'm all punned out for today!

How mundane can you get?!!! The whole topic is banal.

THE REASON FOR THE DECLINE IN QUALITY IS SIMPLE.M&S ABANDONED THEIR POLICY OF QUALITY MERCHANDISE AND NOW IMPORT CHEAP GOODS FROM ASIA.THIS WAS A REACTION TO HIGH STREET RIVALRY FROM STORES LIKE MATALAN AND PRIMARK.ITS GREAT FOR THOSE WHO LIKE CHEAP "DISPOSEABLE" UNDERWEAR BUT THOSE OF US WHO PREFER A QUALITY PRODUCT [JEREMY,MYSELF etc]HAVE BEEN LEFT A LITTLE DISSALUSIONED.

I hate to pass comment on Mr Paxman's comment, as it was meant to be 'off the record' and he is clearly not happy that it has come out 'into the open'.

But he does raise an important point. I bought a pair of corduroy trousers there last year which were of very poor quality. Not all their garments are, I do concede, but they know darned well that while customers will say that they are willing to pay more for better quality, they are often unwilling to pay for it. Hence the move [pioneered by Next] of buying more goods from cheaper overseas suppliers.

However flippant much of the comment about Mr Paxman's complaint, there is an issue there which affects our own attitudes on everything from buying goods from China, to freetrade coffee to Mr Fearnley-Whittingstall's recent travails with broiler chickens.

I do hope the meeting with Stuart Rose is successful, But I have a feeling that Mr Rose can rightly point out that when more of the goods were made in the UK, and were of a better quality, if somewhat dowdy in appearance, their business did at one point look in danger of being taken over by Philip Green.

It's not just the pants and socks that have suffered in quality, I think it's right across the M & S range and as more than one person has said, it's just for more turnover and they've had the cheek to charge more and more for an inferior quality!! I say bring back St. Michaels!!

Northern Rock: will v class...value v care...credibility environment v world progress...what funding them means.. they want to stablisation shift us out of the empires in their minds...

They banked on positioning their players in our field..until southern money and lives would be lost in their primitive economic anti political heist of our country...

Imagine southern county houses 350,000 turned into northern rock ownership through punitive taxation punitive drugs subtlies in bars and workplaces...hyperdiscriminative hatred of southern currency characters...and changes of value system pressure on the more precautious quality conscientious ...until their economy wins... and all the cultural possibilities of our lives n'exist pa...

Each man has to make every year 6000hours a year of their own culture and character pay...

Our northerness is a scottish conscientiousness...their environmentalism is a punitive credibility hatred of all the many classes of creative progressive currencies around...

BCD TLC

Jeremy's interview tonight with the Israeli deputy Foreign Minister was a classic display of weak journlism I have come to expect of late from him. only twenty minutes earlier an interview with the Chancellor was broadcast where Jeremy spat hysterical questions regarding public spending deficits. yet when it came to challenging a state which has sustained an illegal, aggressive and abhorent attack on the human rights of the people of the gaza strip he made a couple of feeble attempts to enquire about the potential impact of Israeli action, and left it at that. Public service broadcasting has hit a new low. I look to newsnight to lead public opinion, both nationally and internationally. Tonight, it failed dismally. Can I have my license fee back please?

Alister Darling's plan is still the most feasible plan for now, this is because there is huge demand in the world financial market for liquidity (cash) especially by the bank and because of this no bank will be willing to lend that huge amount to the investors or tie down the amount needed. So they are not willing to help.
If the government had deided to nationalise this bank, the government would more or less have required more tax payers money to fund northern rock and also regulate it and would still have to sell it back with little or no assurance of making any profit from it (like a non profit organisation. Also it would raise the question of Moral hazard (other banks expecting the same treatment thus continuing to misprice risk leading to worse crisis than could be imagined, in the future).

But as it stands, at least the amount beinng guaranteed, although huge, is not going to increase and as it is being sold to business concious people who are credit worthy it has a greater chance of surviving and the government making a profit out of it. And because of the nature of this arrangement it is not likely that any other bank will continue to misprice risk with the belief that government will bail them out because it is simply not very profitable for them. Also ordinary people citizens that have a stake or the other in the company would be able to get their money back and be sure that they are being protected.

Finally a major contributor to this attack is speculation and panic, so we should all pray and hope for the best. Be POSITIVE

If Paxo can solve the great underwear debate I will be forever be available to buy him a pint. However I believe that the deliberate starvation of the Palestinian people of Gaza by the Israeli government, not even denied by the Israeli Ambassador must take priority. This obscene and is caused in part by Olmert having to show he is strong in his actions before the publication of the Wineograd report. And in doing so Olmert is prepared to sacrifice the lives of Palestinian children.

Surely the situation in Gaza deserved better than Jeremy Paxman's half hearted interrogation of the Israeli spokeswoman. A free reign to spout the usual lame excuses is really not on. It is bad enough having Stephen Sakur on the so called 'Hardtalk'.

Gaza - I hope the price (in terms of Israeli lives lost as a consequence of these usually non-fatal Qassam attacks) is worth this to Israel. If these assertions below are true as to the origins of HAMAS (and they've been made elsewhere), it makes Machiavellian sense given that these small rocket attacks have never been stopped, despite a) the small size of Gaza, b) what one might expect to be very good satellite intelligence and opportunity to locate and catch their launch teams in the act and c) Israel not wanting any solution except their solution. Does anyone have a good explanation as to why the IDF has been so ineffective on this score, or are we to give credence to those who assert that these attacks are a dark convenience to Israel's long term divide and conquer strategy?

I find it astonishing that there is apparently a national debate about jocks and socks in the UK, given the gravity of geopolitical affairs afflicting humanity and life generally on our precious living planet, which we are recklessly and rampantly destroying.

Titillation aside gentlemen - seriously ...

King James II
The Commonwealth of Australia

It's not just M&S underwear is it though? I've been a long time wearer of Clarks shoes, and I've noticed over recent years that whereas one could buy a pair of everyday shoes and get a year or two's service out of them before the lining started to wear about the heel; these days you're lucky to get six months before they're becoming a bit tatty. I don't want to make the assumption that this is because the shoes are now made in the Far East, rather than Somerset, but the dip in quality did seem to occur about the time they transferred manufacturing overseas...

Ever since the Wonderbra revolution brought liberation through support, men have lacked similar accoutrements. Is it not time for the balance to be restored, and underwiring of some description to be applied to male undergarments ? They needn't necessarily be overtly flashy and compromise modesty, however they could promote a more confident gait with an appealing posture. The feminist dominated textile designers need to bring to bare a product that fills a niche, and holds a market. With all the modern frills, bells and whistles, a modern edition of the most vital of male undergarments cannot await further delay. The men of Britain and beyond cannot go commando any longer. The time is nigh for male extravagance and masculine narcissism with a product to be proud of. Shave and wax those calves and thighs gentlemen, for the world is about to succumb to liberation of an unprecedented variety. The world will never be the same after the Ultrapants. Move over ladies, the men will have you in stitches. And that isn't from the failing threads. The cleavage is about to double, and this time it isn't an illusion.

Did i hear right, Darlings general view that the British economy is in good shape. Now i ain't no economist but isn't a trillion ££ of personal debt a sure indicator of a 'Kurplunk' economy. Mortgages and re mortgages on properties that are way over-valued with credit given out like candy and store cards handed out willy nilly the norm for shoppers buying over priced items that most don't actually need and who then find themselves in serious debt for their shopping habits funded and encouraged by the banks ect. The global economy has always been there but it is just so much bigger now but we somehow except it as a necessary evil even though some of us know the economy is an illusion, like a street magician selling you something that does not actually exist and then asking for it back with interest added, its a neat trick that banks have been performing and getting away with for hundreds of years. At some point something gives with the usual consequences of hardship, higher unemployment, govt inability to spend to cover social costs due to less tax revenue blah blah blah ..recessions do come around from time to time; the only difference is at what degree is it at and was it engineered; as past recessions have clearly been planned when one looks to historical events. From Northern rock too the global markets downturn with the US economy hitting the buffers, we are, soon i think in a position to witness what could be an a recession that history has nothing to compare. Darling needs to sit down in a darkened room and rethink our 'sound' economy..

In response to a couple of posts - I think Paxman handled the Gaza part exceptionally well. The response to his questions was illuminating and showed Israel's position as nothing more than completely illegal, bigoted bullying. If he had forced the issue the vice-diplomat would have said far less and come out looking more right. What do we want here? One-sided debates which Paxman forces an agenda through, leaving the interviewee solely defending their position? Or platforms where under structured questions the interviewee's position is stated and clear, thus enabling further insight into the topic in discussion? Last night I think the latter happened and that it was the right thing to do. If you were sitting at home angry about what the vice-diplomat was saying, and were willing Paxman to savage her, then he was doing his job properly, and you should get up and do something about this terrible situation! He isn't there to ease our collective conscience you know.

The question I wanted to ask Darling was the one Jeremy asked him last night in that wasn't it too cosy a relationship between Branson and Brown, a bit too chummy etc., needless to say Darling did not answer the question but did his usual ramble. The taxpayer is being taken big time and the worst of it all is that they know we will stand for it. We will bleat on like we did on Iraq and pensions and all the other myriad injustices at the hands of this dishonest government, also Jeremy is right, M & S are cutting down on material, my scrotum told me so.

I fully agree with Jeremy about the M&S socks. I keep having to put plasters on my big toes to stop holes developing.

Has Jeremy considered maybe a knee length Lederhosen ..

Only trying to be helpful..

As I have size 13 feet M&S is the best place for me to buy my socks. I have never had any trouble with the quality or fit and don't understand where Paxo is coming from.

M&S do a brilliant Comfort sock, I have been converted from wearing Pringle socks to these. It does exactly what is say's on the sticker - The most comfortable sock in the world!

Thanks to the recent newsnight programme on depression. It gave me the impression that depression is a condition that is as command and curable as fever or cold.

my point is do we, in this country actually talk and view depression as if they are Paxman's pants or socks?

As someone who works outside the only place to buy my socks is M&S as they do a great Thermal Range.

Newsnight continues to delight and infuriate in equal measure. The piece on former Norwegian PM, Kjell Magne Bondevik was illuminating and tackled a difficult and under-reported issue with commendable sensitivity. Alas the same couldn't be said for your Gaza coverage. There you appeared to have been unable to separate propaganda from truth. Propaganda has scant regard for truth and simply imposes a narrative upon the facts in order to present a desired message, whereas honest journalism requires one to respect the facts and allow those facts to expose truth. In relation to events in Gaza the facts are quite simple to find and state. Israel suffered some 200+ rocket attacks in a short period of days. In retaliation they closed their border with the HAMAS run territory from which those attacks came. This hampered the normal flow of non emergency fuel, food and medicines across this border but apparently did not impede the flow of electricity across the grid. The HAMAS authority border with Egypt remained unaffected and it was presumably thus open to HAMAS to provision food, fuel and medicines through there instead, unimpeded. HAMAS apparently for their own propaganda purposes chose to ignore that option and instead impose on their own people a drastic cut in domestic power supply. These facts suggest that it is HAMAS that should be held to account for what is happening in Gaza. You do us a disservice by lazily imposing a narrative rather than honestly reporting the facts.

I cannot understand why Jeremy Paxman was so restrained in interviewing the Israeli minister. She was clearly set on not answering any of his questions and kept repeating her prepared spiel. Was he afraid of being tagged as anti semitic, if he persisted with his questioning. He didn't even take advantage of having the last word.

Barrie Singleton #16
David Miliband can go off and do what he likes regardless of public opinion because people are more bothered about pants.

Here's a diary quote from his father, Adolphe Miliband in 1940:

"When you hear the English talk of this war you sometimes almost want them to lose it to show them how things are"

If that's the kind of household that David Miliband grew up in, then perhaps it's understandable why he holds such little regard for the 80% of English that want a referendum. Perhaps David Miliband wants to force the EU Treaty on the English "to show them how things are".

Jeremy, Suggest at your age you get M&S you get M&S to line your pants with Teflon!!
Keep the good work up.
Sincerly Arthur Williams