ΒιΆΉΤΌΕΔ

That "intellectual" joke was one of the most memorable scenes in Ninotchka where Melvin Douglass fell backwards on his chair and Garbo laughed as never before.

Along with the great British public, may we ask why it took nearly 2 years to bring in this verdict (given plethora of evidence)?

Anything to do with PC & Right On considerations for the nuances of our rather temperamental thin skinned British Muslim communities?

Anyway, great verdict, ….. what incompetent cowards * who as refugees & asylum seekers, who attempted to slit the throat of the country & society that sought to help them

* reminds us of last weekends incompetence pantomimes in London & Glasgow (he's behind you … oh no he isn't)

vikingar

No doubt if sufficient information is made public as to why the bomb plot failed and the way the police co-ordinate their procedures, future terrorists will have more chance at succeeding. I wonder if these reports are in our interest or if they should be kept secret.

Listening to the views on Campbell's diaries and the way it has been written at this time, I don't think that there is any underlying reason that all was not revealed except that rest of the diaries will be spread out in several volumes,what is a better way to provide for his pension,when he could have saved for years only for the government get their hands on it. He's not silly

Please no more Campbell. It's his pension. And he's used everyone- including bringing the ΒιΆΉΤΌΕΔ to its knees - to get there. Get a grip news editors. Where's your integrity?

I've just listened to the piece on the Alistair Campbell diaries and the following item on the seige in Islamabad.
I am saddened that a man of such dubious morality is given so much latitude to parade his grubby little diary (which he has already asserted before a judge is not to be taken as particularly truthful or accurate).
He somehow managed to work his way into a position of power and influence,without apparently having any notion of or interest in the common good, the rights of people, enlightenment or the progress of mankind out of the bear pit of self interest, or even a simple respect of anyone else around him , apparently including the ex Prime Minister.
but what is more important is, that he colluded with the Ex Prime Minister and the president of the USA to lie to parliament, the US Senate and the United Nations in order to send the UK , USA and a motley collection of "allies" to war in Iraq, the consequences of which are painfully evident to the world ie: three quarters of a million people dead in Iraq and a world much more divided on sectarian and "religious " lines than before.

His cynicism and self interest would be laughable if the consequences were not so desperately serious.
I think he should be indicted, not invited onto newsnight.

I am somewhat appalled that you had Philip Gould on tonight defending the Campbell Diaries. It seems to me that there is a conflict of interest considering his wife is the head of Random House, publisher of the Campbell Diaries.

"Twenty-o-one". No, it's two thousand and one, Michael. Sort it out, guv'.

When the guity verdicts came in on the failed london bomb plotters and subsequent information detailing our police, intelligence services and immigrations shortcomings( yet again), did you not sense a collective 'head on hands' from the rest of us watching this unfold, are we that straight jacketed by the PC mob, we somehow can't even implement cursory checks at airports on the off chance that it may well flag up known or suspected terrorist moving in and out of the country, are we that reluctant to inconvenience or upset any racial or religious group that fits certain profiles at airports or even within our communities.. whatever happened to homeland security? where has it gone?

I have to say that as always I was disappointed by the coverage of the obesity topic on tonight's programme - yet another one-sided ΒιΆΉΤΌΕΔ parroting of accepted yet deeply suspect political and medical consensus on this issue. Is it too much to ask from a news organisation that thinks nothing of inviting commentary from pro-smoking group FOREST or the pro-hunting lobby in the interest of balanced reporting to adopt a similarly measured approach to the growing hysteria surrounding so-called 'obesity'?

Where was the critique of a scheme which even by its very name suggests that fat people are in some way 'broken' and advocates a level of intervention in family life which many would find distasteful in any other instance? No mention of the wider issues either - the psychological damage caused by identifying fat children as a social problem and singling them out for treatment, the highly suspect (BMI) statistics on which this entire moral panic rests, the genetic component of body size, and the impact of social attitudes, many of which are fostered and encouraged by the media on the well-being of larger people? (Or, most fat people don't dislike being fat in itself, they hate other people's reaction to their fat selves, and to me, insisting that any target of abuse and discrimination change to make themselves acceptable in the eyes of society is a somewhat bizarre approach to this very real problem).

And that's just the tip of the iceberg.

Where are Marilyn Wann, Paul Campos or any of the numerous other sociological and political commentators who share my view that the 'obesity epidemic' as presented by the ΒιΆΉΤΌΕΔ is a sham, a constructed panic designed to encourage a state of perpetual guilt, bolster moral superiority, sell weight-loss products and allow governments to place personal lifestyle choices at the top of the public agenda? That this notion of a world overrun with fat people has only gained widespread credibility due to constant repetition by the mass media and has in essence become a self-perpetuating situation?

I would suggest that those responsible for reporting this issue at the Corporation do a little proper research - the information is not hard to come by for those who want to find it, as there are a growing number who share my view on this subject. I would recommend www.BigFatFacts.com and texts by the above authors (Fat?So! and 'The Obesity Myth') as a useful introduction. This issue (far more so than Iraq / Middle East etc) has demonstrated to me the importance of NOT relying too heavily on the mainstream news media...

Many in the governments of Britain and the US and much of the populations of both countries fail to understand that we are in a war for our survival. They have tried to carry on with business as usual unwilling to alarm the general public any more than they feel necessary but they have created a false sense of security that has allowed people allied to our enemies to enter out countries, use our legal protections to hide and escape detection, and ultimately strike at the very heart of our civilization. If the attitude doesn't change drastically, one day before a whole lot longer some of them will sooner or later succeed at delivering a major blow to us and then we will have no choice but to react. 9-11-01 and 7-7-05 were wake up calls but a lot of people went back to sleep. These were soft alarms, the ensuing ones will likely be much louder. The asymetrical warfare being waged against us is of a nature which can put us in an extended period of inactivity fooling us into thinking we are safe. This only increases our vulnerability. Also increasing our vulnerability are those politicians who for one reason or another do not want to fight this war even though we had no real choice in the matter of being in it no matter what anyone says. It is illogical at this point to say that because there is no hard evidence that Saddam Hussein had a direct part in 9-11 and WMDs were not found it was a mistake to invade Iraq and even worse to justify quitting when so much is at stake.

It is not at all clear that anywhere near three quarters of a million people were killed in Iraq as Tim Whitehead #8 says, presumably based on the very badly flawed survey performed by Lancet last year but even if it were true, it is a drop in the bucket to what will come as we are far closer to the beginning of this war than to the end. And as for our own losses of life, their importance and the cost have been greatly exaggerated out of all proportion to their significance let alone to what we have at risk. Iraq and Afghanistan are just two early battles in this war, there are countless others coming. Ultimately, this will undoubtedly escalate to the use of nuclear weapons and other WMDs and will be seen by history as a true world war...if there is anyone left alive to write it.

Having watched Newsnight last night (focusing in large part on responses to Muslim terror threat) it struck me how limited, counter-productive and predictable was the response. More of the turgid commentary from middle-aged, middle-class white men talking about the need to 'strengthen security'. How many times do we have to hear this response. Tightening security may occasionally work but, mostly we know by now, it doesn't.

Where is the discussion going deeper into the issue of what drives four men who have lived most of their lives in this country to try to blow up random passengers on the Tube? Where are the moderate Muslim voices (men and women)who are equally offended by the actions?

If there's a way out of this situation it can only be through understanding more about 'why' and by building up the voices of the sensible members of the communities from which the four would-be bombers came.

The media shares a key responsibility in this process (yes, media has a responsibliity also - it doesn't just lie with the politicians/industrialists/others). Programmes like last night's Newsnight will only serve to build-up racist and inter-faith/inter-community hostility; part of a negative and hopeless spiral that is leading us nowhere.

Why give such prominence to the writings of AC.
This man did his utmost to destroy the ΒιΆΉΤΌΕΔ at the time of David Kelly`s murder,to divert attention away from dodgy dossiers,lies,and coverups over WMD`s
I believe there are more programmes this week promoting these writings,some editor/programmer or whatever really needs to get a grip and give this man no publicity whatsoever.

has richard watson seen the 1950's film Sirocco about pre WW2 islamist resistance in syria to French Rule? as a demarcation of current ideological positions it could have been written yesterday. The French General is saying word for word what we in the west hear every day about why they are there in Iraq and the islamicist chief says word for word why there can be no compromise. That a film made 50 years ago with such clarity and insight into todays problems shows this is not a new problem.

When in power AC gave out messages to the media with nothing in it and now he has made them all buy a book with nothing in it. Not only that he has promised 'more books' for them to buy. Have they not seen the Marx Brothers Day At the Races 'tutti frutti' scene in the booking hall about how to sell repeatedly to a punter who thinks they will get some 'special information'. The words fish and barrel come to mind.

Tuesday Newsnight

The Diaries
"Michael Crick will fillet out the Alastair Campbell diaries for what is new and interesting",

Who writes these trails ?
The ΒιΆΉΤΌΕΔ Canteen ?

They are usually tedious but you really excelled tonight by making Mr Crick sound like Lieutenant Columbo!

Show some editorial imagination

Tuesday Newsnight

The Diaries
"Michael Crick will fillet out the Alastair Campbell diaries for what is new and interesting",

Who writes these trails ?
The ΒιΆΉΤΌΕΔ Canteen ?

They are usually tedious but you really excelled tonight by making Mr Crick sound like Lieutenant Columbo!

Show some editorial imagination

this might just be a response to post 15:

If you don't bolt your doors at night, there is a chance you may get burgled.

Personally speaking here, i do not believe that ones countrys foreign policy should be dictated by or bullied by immigrants that have come here for a better life, their adherence to the suprenatural or other religious cults should not enable them to threaten the majority, we can all disagree with the Iraq invasion of which i did passionatley, but to somehow try to understand the mindset of the terrorist plotters has long ago passed, unless of course you have a liberial mindset, a mindset that got us in this mess in the first place..and as for the "where are the moderate muslims" that one's an illusion, have you read the Qu'ran lately?

the 'head in the sand' approach has been a failure and a different stratagy is now called for.

working class and 40yrs (is 40 regarded as middle aged? i hope not)

13# Rich;
We have spent the past three months visiting our third son who is an Oncology Surgeon in the USA.
Due to the fact that the Americans are an extremely litigious society and the fact that he has to pay enormous medical insurance to protect himself against possible law suites, he very very rarely will operate on an obese patient.
His eldest brother who is a GP in this Country has a lot of reservations also about referring people needing operations to any specialist who too are obese. The sole reason being the added risk that their weight carries, for no other reason.
Obesity in this Country is one thing in America it is quite another, I would hate to start seeing some of the problems here in this Country that they have in the States.
Obese there means exactly what is says and we have to take the problem a lot more serious in this Country before it reaches the levels here as in America.
On a flight from San-Francisco to Hawaii which is longer than one would imagine, I watched a poor fellow almost being drowned in a sea of fat by his very obese wife. It was not a nice experience to look at, half of her bottom was hanging off the seat.
Bad eating habits are to blame in the USA, when one ask for a steak they are given almost half a Cow. I hope we never have it quite so bad here.

Don't do a Bush! Mr Brown.

A Paltry Β£14 million... is that all our Flooded citizens are worth Prime Minister? dig much deeper into our coffers, sort out those who are uninsured, discuss the ramifications later... Billions to Africa! excellent..but our own "Katrina-like" sufferers deserve some Β£Billions Here & Now .....

Effie (#21),

Whilst I agree that in the US the situation is slightly different I still don't consider that it is as severe as frequently portrayed. I say this as someone who is dating an American girl who would in Internet parlance be described as a 'BBW', so I'm not entirely ignorant on this subject.

It's interesting to note how several Americans have pointed out to me the apparent obesity obsession within the British media, far more so than in the States. "But I hardly see any fat people in Britain!" True indeed. In fact, whilst there may have been an increase in the number of very overweight folk, these still account for a tiny proportion of the population (albeit one which seems to be wheeled out with alarming regularity in order to illustrate how disgustingly fat we're 'all' getting).

The bulk of the increase in average BMI can be accounted for by a slightly higher proportion of people carrying an extra stone or two, manipulation of the scale itself (revised downwards five points in 1998, making an additional 30m Americans 'obese' overnight!) and other statistical shenanigans such as the discrepancy between WHO figures which put the average rise in teen weight at about 15lb since 1995, whilst the EU figure is more like 1.5lb.

So in fact the epidemic is more in the over-use of the word 'obesity' to describe anyone with a BMI of over 25. Perhaps the media should instead refer to it as the 'marginally chubbier than 20 years ago, in spite of the fact we're all getting taller and living longer' epidemic - oops, that doesn't sell papers or increase ratings does it?

My issues with this particular moral panic are simple. It's ostensibly founded on trying to help people, but when you hear daily tales of couples being denied adoption and IVF, workers denied employment or promotion, plans to limit healthcare or impose punitive taxes, experts quuing up to point out that you're public enemy number one and symptomatic of a 'broken society', it's difficult to remain convinced that this whole thing boils down to genuine concern for the health of others rather than a deep-rooted and age-old prejudice.

When teenagers are being bullied in school and even committing suicide over the number on a clothing label, why do otherwise intelligent people continue to insist that it's they not society that have the problem? Sympathy for the tormented gingers, legislation for victims of racist and homophobic abuse; nothing but cheap moral judgements and 'well-meaning' diet advice for the fatties.

There's the obesity problem in our society, right there, and in my humble opinion it's high time for a rethink. Fat people pay the license fee too - let's have some balance!

Rich, You are missing the point I make. When I mentioned obese I meant really obese, definately not marginally chubbier. There is a world of difference in what you are commenting on and what I am commenting on.
Quite honestly what I was referring to I only ever see infrequently in the UK. I certainly do not wish to see it on the same scale as I seen in the States, your girlfriend will be able to confirm that.
Having said that any GP will inform you that obesity is definately an added risk regarding surgery, that is a fact of life. It also has to be said that in no way did I mean that this should be used as an obstacle to people having the treatment they need, merely pointing out the health hazards of becoming grossly overweight.
I am one of those people who cannot gain weight and I am fortunate to be able to eat anything I wish, my life was made a misery as a young woman as people used to say I was skinny, that believe it or not used to hurt. So I have sympathy for those people who struggle with huge weight gain.
But this problem cannot be allowed to escalate especially in children it will only shorten their lives and we are seing more and more of it sorry to say.
A lot is down to bad diet, too many hours spent either in front of a TV or Computer and not enough activity. These children should be encouraged more in Sport, it would go a long way in addressing what is becoming a bad problem in this country.
It is not all down to medical problems.