Monday, 23 July, 2007
- 23 Jul 07, 04:58 PM
Floods
I am writing this in the dark. Because of a pan ΒιΆΉΤΌΕΔ systems failure. Indeed I am actually writing it by hand, at present, because of a pan ΒιΆΉΤΌΕΔ systems failure. Curiously, though, this plays into what feels like a return to biblical times. Floods, thousands displaced, water supplies and electricity supplies cut and the threat of worse to come. And this is Tewkesbury, not Bangalore.
So tonight, there are no prizes for guessing our focus. The Met office warned of floods in no uncertain terms. Yet this country has failed to cope - why? Have we been spending money on the wrong things? Can this government realistically go ahead with building plans which include housing on flood plains?
Changing Weather
And of course the wider issue: Be you a sceptic or a card-carrying member of the climate change argument this amount of rain makes the issue slightly tricky to ignore. We'll be asking whether this is ever more proof of our world getting wilder or just another twist in a complex weather cycle which shouldnβt be over interpreted.
Tories
David Cameron's in Rwanda whilst there are these problems at home. And he's getting a fair amount of stick for it. Not least because there are murmurings within his own party that it may be time to change his style - or should we say policies - and stop isolating the right wing of the party. And after a poor showing in the by-elections last week when the Tories came third in each seat, those murmurings may gain a stronger foothold. Is he in trouble? Political Editor, Michael Crick's on the case.
Obesity
A staggering two and a half million children in Britain are overweight or obese. Newsnight's been following the progress of a group of families on a nine week programme. Is it working? In the second of her films, Jackie Long goes back to find out. Watch the film now here and the first film here.
Comments Post your comment
FLOODS. Those governance chickens not currently floating upside down in dilute sewage, are coming home to roost. It never occurred to our gormless MPs who voted to flog off the utilities, that in an extreme emergency, of whatever kind, to retain ownership makes sense. Will the military be billing the owners of the electricity switching station for keeping the water away? Will the water treatment works owners upgrade their site to prevent a repeat shut-down? Will the government hand over our money to βbale outβ private companies? I guess the last one is most likely. Never mind, Hilary Benn, the original βman named Sueβ will sort it out.
Complain about this post
Dear Newsnight
David Cameron is absolutely right to go to Rwanda. We should never forget other peopleβs difficulties because of our own.
We are also one world. A person suffering overseas is no less important than someone suffering here, and the scale of things in places like Rwanda is of a completely different magnitude to what is happening here.
Because of modern communications he will able to keep in touch with different issues wherever he is, it makes no difference, and a leader must be able to handle more than one issue at a time. Moreover in any properly run party or Government there will be others to take the lead on issues when necessary.
Bob
Complain about this post
Times like these is where digital radio falls down. A digital radio will burn up your batteries and within a day or so you will be left with a useless piece of silent tech. Whereas an analogue radio [like the drumming duracell rabbit] on the same batteries will go on and on and on....for weeks
sadly the headless chicken prize must go to five live reporters who seemed in near hysteria and foamed as much as the rivers repeating the words, vunerable, crisis, disaster, panic, horror, nightmare etc as if locked in their own mental never stopping merry go round. Members of the public sounded far more relaxed and philosophical.
So actually if you have an analogue [digital would have run out of power by now] it might be better if you don't listen to the radio at least not to a news station.
If we wanted to ramp it up we could speculate 'what would it be like if it was deep winter'? Hundreds dead from cold? Hospitals chocked with hypothermia cases?
Complain about this post
There is little doubt that the climate is changing, how much effect the human race has on this is still open to debate.
The earths climate has always been in a state of flux, this is just a part of the cycle.
Noah knew all about rain and flooding, and there were no damaging gasses being loosed into the atmosphere then, apart from flatulent cattle.
One thing however is certain, there is a lot of money being made from all the scaremongering.
Keep the people worried, then the governments get away with all sorts.
Remember the year 2000 when the planet would come to a standstill, when computers all went into nervous breakdowns.
Welcome to the world of mushrooms.
Complain about this post
Relatively funny opening tonight by Emily. Warning people with no electricity that she has bad news for them..... Do these people have TV's that run on something else?
Complain about this post
Perhaps newsnight should report on manpower and cuts accross the water industry.
Then look at the privatised profits made by bondholders etc.
If you asset strip an industry repeatedly you can not realisticly look for a rapid effective response to such disasters.
Complain about this post
"Have we been spending money on the wrong things? Can this government realistically go ahead with building plans which include housing on flood plains?"
Well, there was the Beagle II which almost made it to Mars. There was that SST, the Concorde which while expensive and a money loser was very prestigious. Then there was the A380 and although it cost billions and can't be built made very good TV coverage at the rollout last year. Then there was the millenium dome. A chunnel to help get illegal aliens into Britain from France. There's new buildings for ΒιΆΉΤΌΕΔ and trips for the WHYS crew to India, Africa, America (three times to New Orleans alone) and well, hmmm, sorry, no money left for flood control projects. Well just maybe the government's priorities weren't quite what they should have been. But don't feel too alone, the Army Corps of Engineers had been warning the US government for forty years that there was grave risk to New Orleans and nobody did anything about it until hurricane Katrina happened. Then there was all kinds of money to do what could have been done for a lot less a long long time ago.
Glug glug. Glug, glug.
How about a general election to sweep everyone now in office out of government and give a new gang of incompetent political crooks a chance...and a warning.
Complain about this post
What did that environment minister - didn't catch his name - say about the Thames Barrier tonight? Was it that the Barrier is saving us from the need to evacuate parts of London in view of the rain-swollen Thames?
Funny, I thought the Barrier was installed to protect London against inundation from a seaward, not a landward, direction...
If I am wrong, I misunderstood (and this comment will be suppressed) but if I'm right, we have to worry about the value of everything he says.
Complain about this post
The Newsnight definition of debate:
To invite on a flood victim to 'debate' with a minister then hardly let her talk. As we've had blanket Brown to the rescue dross on the ΒιΆΉΤΌΕΔ an alternative view would have been good.
Then two people who agree that global warming exist 'debate' if it caused the floods.
And to finish Crick discuses the Tory 'defeats' in the two by elections when out of the three parties only Labour's vote fell.
The Brown Broadcasting Corporation strikes again.
Complain about this post
Please, who is the 'man named Sue', Mr Singleton? Is he part of the it's-not-my-fault-but-yours culture?
Complain about this post
There seems to be some confusion here...
If the Met Office gives a warning of a really extreme weather event on a Monday it doesn't mean the nation's flood infrastructure can be upgraded by Friday. All that can be done over that time scale is to warn and prepare the emergency response - including deploy mobile flood defences, as long as they know where to put them (which is only clear quite close to the time they are needed). This was done quite well, but there is no government sponsored King Canute that can be deployed to hold back the waters.
In fact, the Met Office can only give quite general advice about exactly where really intense downpours will occur (it is a little like forecasting tornadoes in the US) even a few hours in advance. So don't expect early general warnings to translate to specific local action until closer to the event...
The Thames Barrier is sometimes closed to deal with high levels of rainwater in the Thames - this is to prevent the coincidence of a rainfall-driven flooding peak and a tidal peak, by keeping the tidal peak out. So Hugh Clark need not worry about the use of Thames Barrier to prevent flooding from the landward direction. It's always done that and Hilary Benn was right.
I think the real issues here are about society's willingness to pay for controlling risks - in this case, quite small and hard-to-predict risks of major consequences for those affected. Remember most of the places flooded haven't been harmed for years - so most of the time making the case that money should be diverted from other spending priorities to spend on protecting these places is a tough call.
What's sad about Newsnight's angle here is the desperate effort to find a 'political' story - or rather infantile Westminster-insider naming and blaming - rather than an examination of the deeper questions about our understanding of and attitudes to risk, willingness to pay to control risks, and the available strategies to address the risks.
The most unfair challenge to those charged with managing risks (whether floods, terrorism or child safety etc) is to challenge them with the total confidence and clarity of hindsight. Please do tackle poor performance, misguided strategy, inefficiency etc - but you can only do that with credibility if you really get to the heart of what the risk managers are actually doing - no-one on the ΒιΆΉΤΌΕΔ (or elsewhere) has managed that so far.
MD
Complain about this post
Dear Newsnight
All day people have been phoning the ΒιΆΉΤΌΕΔ to ask why the rivers are dredged less etc, which raises an interesting point, instead of building up flood defences isnβt it easier to dredge rivers to make them deeper and flow faster to clear floodwaters, or is there another reason for not doing this,
and tonight your programme raised another interesting point when one of your reporters mentioned that the sluice gates on one part of the Thames had being fully opened to allow the water to escape
but I found myself asking why this was not done days, weeks ago at all points to lower the river so when the heavy rain came there was extra capacity in the river to absorb it?
and anything else along these lines that would have created extra capacity to absorb the water when it came.
Is it not possible to seed the rain clouds before they reach land so that the rain falls over the sea, if is known the land cannot absorb any more water?
just some questions, I do not know the answers
best wishes
Bob
Complain about this post
THE MISSING DEBATE - WHAT HOUSING IS NEEDED?
We have now had nearly four days of endless news items showing TV presenters delicately poised on dry ground in front of anonymous sheets of water. So we now know that there have been floods; which are disastrous for those affected but which unfortunately have not produced any sensible suggestions as to how we can cope with such 100 year events. Apart from the ignored fact that the fears of drought, and hosepipe bans which have afflicted us in previous years, now seem groundless, there has been little serious debate about what we can do in future; largely because there is little we really can do in the face of such catastrophe.
So what about the comment on subjects which should be open for discussion. Well, David Cameronβs fall from grace was also widely, albeit briefly, mentioned by most of the media. But what about last weekβs hot topic - so widely trailed before the event β housing policy. You may not have noticed it but yesterday saw the launch of the most important new development in the strategies top be adopted by Gordon Brown; his paper on housing policy.
So far, however, all I have learned from the media in general is that numbers of new housing starts are to be increased - that was spun last week β and housing will continue to be built on flood plains β yesterdayβs hot topic. Is that all there is? So, in the remarkable absence of any serious comment on this major issue, let me try and address it in my own way.
It is clear that something needs to happen in the housing market. We are not providing enough housing, and what is provided is too expensive. So why is this?
As usual the government is blamed, but then it is blamed for everything β including the natural disaster we are currently experiencing - regardless of whether there is any justification for this. In the case of housing policy it is certainly true that Margaret Thatcher changed the ground rules; by allowing sale of council houses, and effectively barring any replacement of such social housing, whilst at the same time kicking off the new values of the property owning democracy β and in the process undermining any hope of affordable housing for those not on high salaries. This meant, at one extreme, later governments could no longer use the public sector to kick start housing growth and were dependent upon self-interested developers whose profits zoomed as housing became scarce. At the other extreme the general public indulged in their new, and voracious, demand for an investment on the recently invented property ladder. The rented housing in which we so many of us started our married lives a generation or so ago was no longer acceptable and council housing for the less well off was taboo.
Indeed, the main factors determining the position of the market are now cultural rather than practical. Not least is the almost religious fervour with which individuals fight to maximize their investment in bricks and mortar; seeing only the upside, the massive boom in prices, but not the potential disaster any collapse in the ludicrously inflated prices would cause β even when the US market is so dangerously close to failure. The end result is to be seen in the new dependence of almost all families on two incomes; with all that means for childrenβs upbringing. But other cultural factors have also become important. Houses now have to have en-suites and, if they can be afforded, they must be detached β albeit by a few inches. However the need for flexibility to handle future demands, reasonable office space to support home-working and granny flats for our aging relatives, is swamped by the latest fashions.
Mixed in with all this is the fetish of the green belt. Donβt get me wrong, brown field sites offer the best development solution for everyone and I have always been a supporter of the greenbelt round London. You have only to look at other supercities, such as Tokyo, to see what happens when there is no check on expansion. But the concept has now been extended to cover all land outside of our cities. Every bit of βfarmlandβ has to be protected; even if it is only a decommissioned airfield covered in turkey sheds.
All this land is romantically categorized as areas of natural beauty where we are free to roam and absorb the fresh air and glorious landscapes; even in a piggery with 10,000 inhabitants. Now let us be clear. If we want to preserve this land so that we can feed our population then we must look to the farm factories, with their acres of poly-tunnels, which now are so much more efficient than traditional hedgerows and copses.
If, instead, we are genuinely looking to give individuals the chance to roam through open spaces which provide the rest and relaxation they need then surely forcing them to travel dozens of miles to find these must be counter-productive; and certainly not βgreenβ.
Perhaps, then, at least some of the lessons to be learned should be those from the last time we managed to start large numbers of houses; in the 1960s. Then, of course, the fashion was for self-contained new towns; rather than anonymous mass housing to be spread across the whole of the south east.
I must declare an interest. As you can see on the website at I live in Milton Keynes. As the leading example of city planning from the 1960s, this was β contrary to current fashions - deliberately designed as a βlow density cityβ. Covering 100 square miles it now very successfully houses a quarter of a million people; and will grow to house half a million. What was lost in the process was some relatively unproductive farmland but almost nothing which would have been attractive to city dwellers.
Instead, in addition to the massive amounts of new housing, what has been created has been homes which are each no more than a hundred yards from extensive tracts of open space. The families, and especially their children, can daily use this open space without any need to take a car to find it. What is more they can use it safely.
As modern tastes change, Milton Keynes is building high density blocks of flats in its city centre to cater for those young professionals who prefer proximity to night-life. But those with young families still have a wide choice of less dense housing with access to green spaces.
With this almost uniquely successful example in mind, I would, therefore, counsel against government setting just one target; of ever higher numbers of housing starts β and ever denser building levels. We need to think about the quality of life these should encompass; as well as the new requirements β of home offices and granny flats. Otherwise we will just recreate horizontal versions of the tower block slums of the previous generation; but inefficiently covering vast tracts of land in concrete.
By the way, returning to the theme of the moment, Milton Keynes has very successfully invested in flood protection for not just its own inhabitants but for its neighbours. In the process it has created chains of lakes which enhance the open spaces available to its fortunate residents.
Complain about this post
Oh, dear. This if this is the best we can do I'd advise buying bigger wellies.
Unpredicted power cuts. Something without precedent I am sure at the ΒιΆΉΤΌΕΔ. It must be climate change. Lessons must be learned. Debates will be had. But, for now, let's move on.
First up, let me just say how bang on - 'watching TV without electricity. LOL' - almost all the comments have been so far, and forgive me for rehashing any, but there is much to rake over.
'Without precedent'. So says Dear Leader and his gang. Well, is/was it, or not? Especially if, as advised, 1903 was the wettest on record and 1947 & 1956 were a tad damp, too. And what has happened 'was no different' to 1968 in the West Midlands or 1912 in East Anglia.
Which rather makes a mockery of 'Acts of God' along with 'No one could have predicted'.
Surely to [that same invoked entity] this was entirely predictable, and should have been anticipated. And as we are getting hit with climate change awareness communications (via PR and massively-funded ad campaigns of questionable value) daily, might we not suppose that in a joined up government a projection may have been made from such historical data, a few factors such as increased population, consequent building, drainage and run off bolted on, to arrive at the notion that, at some stage, it was going to happen again, and maybe even a bit worse?
I have never heard such woeful backsliding, and backside covering so far (with a prediction of more totally precedented examples to come).
If Mr. Brown's solution so far is to swim in and promise a bit more money to make up for what he was part of removing in the past, I'd say the only bounce from any location near water he'd see if he called an election was out! How long are we going to be treated to an erasing of any complicity in the last decade, when all those responsible for what is happening now were part of the obvious failures in policy and action (with all due, obligatory, praise to those at the sharp... er, wet... end of the public service delivery systems who actually have to mop up their bosses' foul-ups) that has brought us to this point?
And if... when this money arrives, forget the Environment Agency two Labour MPs so virulently trashed various for 'rubbish systems' on this very point (this would be the same Agency a Minister of Government subsequently has very confidence in? How disjointed is that!?), how can we trust this shambolic bunch to utilise any more cash any more effectively than they have already? We have the evidence of our own pruny toes to show what they are capable of at a strategic level. The only defensive systems I see deployed so far are career-covering words. As Baroness Young said: 'there is no accounting'. Quite.
I'm not quite sure how many Ministers of Mud (Ok, the environment) we deserve, but Mr. Phil 'No Point Trying' Woolas was an inspired choice of spokesperson to help us through this. 'Not the time for lessons learned', just as all around are trying to bail themselves out by rehashing this rather tired mantra enough times in the hope it will all soon pass over. And speaking of tired mantras, there is, apparently, 'a big debate to be had'. Well we're having it now matey, and the likes of you are looking pretty poor in the showing so far.
Was he really saying that as it was going to be really bad the lack of doing anything in some places was excusable. With a system that is claimed to be totally 'fluid' (excuse the pun) from one hour to the next, you don't even try? And big up to the commenter who noted he doesn't seem to have grasped the Thames Barrier's actual function. Funny if not tragic. It sure doesn't fill me with much confidence in the competence being brought to bear so far.
And Newsnight, why, oh why do you persist with the 'twofer' bookend debate style. Actually the flood victim lady was at least quite well-informed and confident, but for an issue this massive she's all we get to go head to head with a Minister backed by a bazillion assistants and briefings (not that it did him much good)?
And as a tax, local rate and licence fee payer with the River Wye looking to do the same thing one day, and wishing to prevent a lot more than I can cure or see excluded on insurance, why did we not get an answer to the question of DEFRA's Flood Resistance Grants? I would like, no... need... no... demand to know!
Along with why we are not spending money wisely on tangible preventative measures as opposed to p*ssing it all away on more and more quangos and ad campaigns to make 'us' aware on our carbon footprints. I'm pretty sure some were quite relieved that 4x4s and bottled water (last week was it that Newsnight jumped on that trivial bandwagon?) were still available at the moment, and a bit more concerned about the much bigger carbon footprint pictures that might be responsible for such massive natural phenomena.
So let's not just look to the skies to explain what has happened on the ground here. I'm afraid what I am seeing and hearing is indeed caused by man (PC-alert: men and women), but mostly all living in one small village in Westminster.
I was more than interested in the Climate Change discussion (no so much a debate as they were really agreeing with each other) between Meteorologist of 30 years' experience Philip Eden, and environmentalist of, er, no obvious fixed qualification, George Monbiot. An interesting pairing.
I'd have loved to have seen Mr. Eden across the table from Mr. Brown or Woolas to hear them deal with the fact that there was indeed plenty of precedent, and all this could be and indeed has been predicted. Maybe even mitigated?
In fact this should be the end of the story, along with their over-spun careers. But no, one can say almost anything outright wrong and get away with it pretty easily these days.
Especially in the current media climate where there is an attention span... of oh, that's all we have time for. Meanwhile, in other news... I for one would like to return to the hundreds more concerned with Jeremy's tie. Not.
I'll leave the final words to the only qualified scientist I heard all night: 'If this is what happens within our current limits of experience, what is going to happen in the future?' I'm just not sure if he was talking about the weather, or the guys tasked to help us address its consequences.
Complain about this post
Could anyone tell me if it fesable to
drill into old mine shafts wich there are miles of roads that no one uses anymore, and diverting the water
into the mines whenever there is a swell in the rivers.The water could
be pumped back out when needed.This
may cause problems in it self,I would
be most interested to find out
Complain about this post
The floods were a disaster waiting to happen, there is a valid reason for the description, 'flood plain'.
That said, it is not surprising that the authorities were taken by surprise.
They are taken the same way in winter when is snows or freezes, Autumn when the leaves on the lines bring our trains to a halt.
Other parts of the world have learned to cope with natures moods. Houses on stilts spring to mind.
All the panic about lack of water to wash in, this when the rain was bucketing down, did no-one think of catching it? Diverting a down-pipe?
One thing for sure, maybe now it will be appreciated just how it is for a lot of third world countries where they have to walk miles to water, water that may kill them.
Everyone should think about this the next time they turn on a tap and get wholesome water.
Complain about this post
The MEND project is inspiring and seems to have been thought out with a noticeable degree of psychological depth and insight - of course parents have to be involved and educated and encouraged as well as the children! It is not generally children but parents who are in control of the household budget and how routines in a household are managed. Children cannot possibly succeed at this without parental co-operation.
Sadly, too many parents and adults do not yet understand this - which fact is astonishing in a wealthy country that has such easy access to all the best research. Astonishing too that we have failed to educate ourselves as a society, for too many decades - and I'm not 'blaming-the-government', I'm holding all aspects of our society responsible.
Wonderful therefore to see that the combination of Supermarket and Lottery funding are being put to good use in our communities with positive outcomes - and not a moment too soon in the supermarket department!
The way the inserts were filmed & put together was richly inspiring too. A treat to see revealed with grace, care and respect the individual obstacles faced. A privilege to be exposed to the commitment of adults to these children.
Heartfelt congratulations to all the participants who succeeded in seeing this session of the course through to the end. I was inspired by your endeavours and those of your course guides.
Lauren, Jonathan, Edward, Lyo, Elvis, Phylys, Reece and parents, as well as all your co-participants I'm unable to name, I feel priviledged to have been able to see you all achieve your goals.
Thank you for this inspiration. I hope that by letting you know of the positive effect you have had on me, this will, in some small way, encourage you to keep up all your good habits into the future.
Complain about this post