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Day three of the Tory conference in Birmingham and a 6.55am chat with the Prime Minister on the conference stage.

The gist of it? The child benefit changes are fair, the Tories have to win the arguments for spending cuts before the Welsh assembly elections and he won't be campaigning in the referendum on the assembly's powers next March.

He sidestepped a question about the proposed Β£14bn defence training academy earmarked for St Athan in South Wales.

Removing child benefit from higher-rate taxpayers has annoyed many Tory supporters in Fleet Street and led the Children's Minister to suggest the changes could be revised. I suggested the policy was unravelling: "I don't think so. It's a difficult decision to make a tough choice to make but I think it's fair as we confront this enormous deficit as we pay down our debts we have to ask better off people to bear a fair share of the burden and obviously child benefit will be kept for 85 per cent of people"

I asked why a family with an income of Β£80,000 a year should get more state handouts than one on Β£45,000 a year. "We have this situation in the tax system - if you have one earner on Β£50,000 they pay top rate tax, but if you have two on Β£25,000 they don't pay top rate tax.

"The alternative would be to means test every single family in the country and set up an incredibly complicated and expensive and intrusive bureaucracy and I think it's better just to say if there is a top rate taxpayer in the house they don't get child benefit."

The Conservative attacked the benefits system for rewarding couples who split up - haven't the Tories just done the same? "I don't think that's right - the child benefit will be there for the vast majority of families."

David Cameron has already suggested the spending cuts will create a tough background against which the Conservatives will fight the assembly elections next May. A hospital pass?

"I think we'll have to make the argument in Wales that it's right to deal with the deficit, it's right to do so straight away, it's right to tackle this problem and the alternative, the Labour alternative, is to put off the decision-making. Now we all know with our debts it doesn't get better, it gets worse and the interest mounts up. I think we can win that argument and that's what we have to do before the Assembly elections."

He denied spending cuts would put Wales with its relative dependence into recesssion - "all the forecasts are for economic growth".

David Cameron has the "logic" of the proposed defence training academy at St Athan but is the Β£14bn cost affordable in the current climate?

Cue sidestep. "You're going to see all of the decisions made in the strategic defence review which will be announced in the next few weeks. Obviously difficult decisions have to be made but the key question we have to answer is how are you going to protect and defend Brititain in the modern age from the threats to face and that's the question we'll answer."

Mr Cameron told Scottish Conservatives that he'd campaign in any referendum on independence for Scotland - a vote that has yet to be fixed. So will we see him during the campaign for the referendum on Welsh assembly powers next March?

"What I was saying about Scotland was I want to keep the United Kingdom together and I don't want to see it break up, and I was talking about a referendum, if there was one, I hope there won't be one, on independence. The same would apply to Wales I want to keep Wales in the United Kingdom.

"The issue about whether or not the Assembly should have more powers is a question for people in Wales I don't live in Wales so I don't have a vote in Wales and I know that the arguments will be put strongly on both sides.

"You'll see me in Wales, you'll see me in those Assembly elections but I think the issue
of powers for the Welsh Assembly that's one for the Welsh people".

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